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  #101  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 8:34 AM
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The Urban Renewal era (50's through the early 70's was an epic shortsighted colossal failure that blighted cityscapes til this day. It reflected the attitudes that old/ pre-war was dirty/ outdated/ crowded and that sweeping plazas and banal architecture were the future...

albany-001 by ConfusedWithACamera, on Flickr
t.

You lost me here. Empire State Plaza is a gawdamned masterpiece.

Last edited by pico44; Jan 16, 2022 at 8:59 AM.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 5:40 PM
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You lost me here. Empire State Plaza is a gawdamned masterpiece.
Your masterpiece came at a big cost - Wikipedia -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Plaza

"The state obtained possession of the 98.5-acre site on March 27, 1962 through eminent domain. Demolition of the 1,200 structures began in the fall of 1962 and continued through the end of 1964...

When the State of New York seized the area in March 1962, it was home to about 7,000 residents according to the 1960 US Census. Like urban cores in most other American cities in the Northeast and Midwest, downtown Albany had seen sharp declines in white population, downtown retail activity, and hotel occupancy rates since World War II. At the same time, the African American population had doubled in the downtown census tracts between 1950 and 1960. At the time of the State's 1962 seizure, the largest ethnic group in the entire area was African American, at about 14% of the total population. First and second generation Italian Americans made up about 10% of the area's population.[13]

The 98-acre area was made up of several distinct neighborhoods. To the south, clustered around Madison and Grand streets was the heart of Albany's Italian American community. Although only about half of Little Italy was seized by the State, the demolition and subsequent noise and dirt associated with the construction of the Empire State Plaza led many residents to move, even if their homes were not appropriated. To the north lay Albany's rooming house district, centered on Jay, Lancaster, and Hudson streets between Eagle and S. Swan. About 10% of the buildings torn down for the Empire State Plaza were rooming houses. In them lived over 1,000 single men, often elderly and poor. They made up about one third of all households and at least 15% of the take area's population. The eastern part of the take area, where the South Mall Arterial is now, was Albany's "Gut", an area of cheap hotels, flophouses, and dive bars.[14] The take area also boasted elegant homes, particularly on State Street at the northern end and Elm Street below Madison.

The area in and around the seized area had long been home to immigrants and their churches. Five churches operated in the area in the years just before its seizure by the state. Holy Cross, a German national Catholic church founded in 1850, was at the corner of Hamilton and Philip streets. Due to declining numbers, it relocated in 1959 to Western and Brevator on the city's western fringe. Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, a French national Catholic church, was at 109 Hamilton, between Grand and Fulton streets. Like Holy Cross, the church had seen a drop in parishioners to the point that in 1961 it celebrated only four baptisms and one marriage. Assumption relocated to the northern suburb of Loudonville. First Methodist Church, dating back to the 18th century, stood on the corner of Hudson and Philip streets..."
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  #103  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 10:54 PM
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Empire State Plaza is almost justifiable. It's iconic. Most monumental civic architecture in the U.S. outside of the National Mall.

Pretty much every component is fascinating and best-in-class, from the public underground levels to the history museum/library to the performing arts center. And the free observation deck, for us SSPers. Of course the destruction was epic and inexcusable.
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  #104  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 11:42 PM
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Hope you guys will find this link as fascinating as I did:

https://98acresinalbany.wordpress.com/
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  #105  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pico44 View Post
You lost me here. Empire State Plaza is a gawdamned masterpiece.
Empire Plaza is a cold windswept dead pedestrian unfriendly hell scape. Sorry.
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  #106  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 12:36 PM
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While Chicago, Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo all fared relatively well compared to cities like Denver, it seems like Toronto was the biggest loser proportionately.

The Birks Building and The Grand Curthouse in Hamilton was incredibly unique and ornate. Lafayette Theater in Buffalo was, in some visual regards, the long lost sister of "The Niagara" in Niagara Falls NY.

I do wish that FCP had been built west of University avenue instead of leading to the destruction of the Toronto Star Building. It's pretty insane to think a 22 floor art deco building was demolished in Canada.

It seems Chicago lost the least proportionate amount of its prewar highrise stock out of any major NA city.
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  #107  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Empire State Plaza is almost justifiable. It's iconic. Most monumental civic architecture in the U.S. outside of the National Mall.

Pretty much every component is fascinating and best-in-class, from the public underground levels to the history museum/library to the performing arts center. And the free observation deck, for us SSPers. Of course the destruction was epic and inexcusable.
Something can simultaneously be amazing art/architecture and terrible at actually having utility for humanity.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 3:45 PM
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I actually like ESP and have visited many times but I don't like how it came to be; destroyed countless brownstone and the continuity of that neighborhood. And compared to rest of Albany, it's out of place.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaletown_fella View Post
While Chicago, Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo all fared relatively well compared to cities like Denver, it seems like Toronto was the biggest loser proportionately.

The Birks Building and The Grand Curthouse in Hamilton was incredibly unique and ornate. Lafayette Theater in Buffalo was, in some visual regards, the long lost sister of "The Niagara" in Niagara Falls NY.

I do wish that FCP had been built west of University avenue instead of leading to the destruction of the Toronto Star Building. It's pretty insane to think a 22 floor art deco building was demolished in Canada.

It seems Chicago lost the least proportionate amount of its prewar highrise stock out of any major NA city.
Montreal leveled whole neighborhoods (Goose Village, le faubourg des Récollets, etc.), on an even bigger scale than Toronto ever did. Toronto did lose more elegant early skyscrapers, relative to Montreal. That original TS building was a beauty, and such a monumental loss (esp. when you consider the current TS building, which is shite).
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  #110  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaletown_fella View Post
While Chicago, Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo all fared relatively well compared to cities like Denver, it seems like Toronto was the biggest loser proportionately.

The Birks Building and The Grand Curthouse in Hamilton was incredibly unique and ornate. Lafayette Theater in Buffalo was, in some visual regards, the long lost sister of "The Niagara" in Niagara Falls NY.

I do wish that FCP had been built west of University avenue instead of leading to the destruction of the Toronto Star Building. It's pretty insane to think a 22 floor art deco building was demolished in Canada.

It seems Chicago lost the least proportionate amount of its prewar highrise stock out of any major NA city.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront...on_in_1878.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_H...Hotel_1929.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_...se_Toronto.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ma..._Toronto_2.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple...g,_Toronto.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront...ont_Street.jpg
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  #111  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 10:18 PM
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Here are the 7 biggest tragedies in Chicago. I agree that Chicago fared better than almost all other NA cities, largely because it built so much in the first place, but it did have notable losses:

7. World's First Ferris Wheel (d. 1906)


6. Grand Central Station (d. 1969)


5. Phenix Building (d. 1957)


(Anyone know the name of the church(?) in the background. Is that also gone?)

4. Masonic Temple Building (d. 1939)


3. Home Insurance Building (d. 1931)


2. Chicago Federal Building (d. 1965)


1. Chicago Columbian Exposition (d. 1893)


(It was made of cheap materials, but should have been at least rebuilt with permanent ones. It's an icon of Chicago, and even memorialized in songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0UOiVM1u0
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  #112  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 10:26 PM
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^ Don't forget about Chicago's old Morrison Hotel.

It wasn't exactly the most spectacular pre-war skyscraper ever built, but at 526' feet tall, it is one of only two pre-war skyscrapers over 500' that have ever been demolished (the other being NYC's Singer Building).

Built in 1925, this giant beast of a building only stood for about 4 decades. It was demolished in the mid-'60s to make way for One First National Plaza (now Chase Tower).


source: http://www.connectingthewindycity.co...-selected.html








Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post

1. Chicago Columbian Exposition (d. 1893)

(It was made of cheap materials, but should have been at least rebuilt with permanent ones. It's an icon of Chicago, and even memorialized in songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0UOiVM1u0
that's a pretty unrealistic "should". all but one of the buildings were built with wood and plaster. in fact, shortly after the fair ended the whole damn place went up in flames.

it was little more than a cheaply and expediently built hollywood set to stage a grand world's fair. everything about it was ephemeral. rebuilding them all in actual stone would have been beyond expensive.

Where would that money to do that have come from after the fair had ended?

at the very least, of the 14 grand buildings that made up the white city grounds, at least one of them was built with actual stone and still stands today as the Museum of Science & Industry.


source: wikipedia
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 19, 2022 at 2:08 AM.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Here are the 7 biggest tragedies in Chicago. I agree that Chicago fared better than almost all other NA cities, largely because it built so much in the first place, but it did have notable losses:

5. Phenix Building (d. 1957)


(Anyone know the name of the church(?) in the background. Is that also gone?)
That's the old Board of Trade Building from 1885.



At least the current Board of Trade is a worthy successor. More than can be said for the current Federal Plaza's black boxes, after losing that magnificent dome...
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  #114  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 1:46 AM
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More than can be said for the current Federal Plaza's black boxes
Like Albany's ESP posted earlier in the thread, I'm personally torn on what happened to the old Chicago federal building.

It was really fucking cool.

But so is this!!!


Source: wikipedia



The real shame is that we couldn't have both.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 1:54 AM
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The Kluczynski federal buildings are a MCM masterpiece
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  #116  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 3:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Emprise du Lion View Post
but north city, especially in some of the neighborhoods bordering the booming central corridor, the continued decline is apparent.
Yeah and then the city sold out to the national geospatial intelligence agency who have now torn up 40 blocks worth of streets in the st louis place neighborhood to build a suburban style campus right in the middle of st louis, interupting the street grid and making the decline of that area effectively permanent. nobody here has learned any lessons
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  #117  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 3:31 AM
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^ 40 blocks!?!?!?!?

Holy crap!

What does this national geospatial intelligence agency do that would require so much land?

Sounds like something that should probably be out in the boondocks.
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  #118  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ Don't forget about Chicago's old Morrison Hotel.

It wasn't exactly the most spectacular pre-war skyscraper ever built, but at 526' feet tall, it is one of only two pre-war skyscrapers over 500' that have ever been demolished (the other being NYC's Singer Building).

Built in 1925, this giant beast of a building only stood for about 4 decades. It was demolished in the mid-'60s to make way for One First National Plaza (now Chase Tower).


source: http://www.connectingthewindycity.co...-selected.html










that's a pretty unrealistic "should". all but one of the buildings were built with wood and plaster. in fact, shortly after the fair ended the whole damn place went up in flames.

it was little more than a cheaply and expediently built hollywood set to stage a grand world's fair. everything about it was ephemeral. rebuilding them all in actual stone would have been beyond expensive.

Where would that money to do that have come from after the fair had ended?

at the very least, of the 14 grand buildings that made up the white city grounds, at least one of them was built with actual stone and still stands today as the Museum of Science & Industry.


source: wikipedia
Isn’t the Adler Planetarium and Midway Field remnants of the White City? Some of my earliest memories are from the Adler Planetarium, although now that I think of it that building seems more like a 1920s building.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 3:48 AM
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Isn’t the Adler Planetarium and Midway Field remnants of the White City? Some of my earliest memories are from the Adler Planetarium, although now that I think of it that building seems more like a 1920s building.
No.

The Adler Planetarium, Shedd Aquarium, and Field Museum have nothing to do with the white city of the 1892 World's Columbian Exposition.

They are all located on the museum campus at the SE corner of Grant Park, which is about 5 miles north of where the white city was located at, and they were built in the 1920s, decades after the WCE had ended.

Those buildings did figure into the 1933 Century of Progress world's fair that was held on Northerly Island to commemorate the city's 100th birthday.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 19, 2022 at 4:03 AM.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 3:53 AM
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Isn’t the Adler Planetarium and Midway Field remnants of the White City? Some of my earliest memories are from the Adler Planetarium, although now that I think of it that building seems more like a 1920s building.
The 1933 World’s Fair was hosted on Museum Campus and Northerly Island, but the planetarium predates it by 3 years.

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