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  #3501  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 4:17 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by urbanpln View Post
All of the doom and gloom is kinda depressing. I'm blown away by the fact that there are individuals in a political party(the far right) that are attempting to destroy an American city. "That's totally un-American imo". This country has reached a new low. These attacks on Chicago are coming from all over the country. Every other week there are new articles about the demise of our city. I hope some of the rhetoric will stop after the November election.
Yeah. I really don't understand any of this except one thing which I won't even mention here. It is completely un American. If people actually offered solutions and said "this is not good, let's work to find a good solution" and had some ones - and showed a willingness - I think it wouldn't anger as many people. But that's not what is done. There is a clear misinformation campaign going on for various things right now and just blatant fearmongering in other areas. I don't even understand what the point is. I look at Bailey and just wonder that. Like he is saying enough stuff to get people scared of Chicago, but he's running for governor of the state for which it belongs and it's one of the top 10 economies in the world. Illinois absolutely needs Chicago to function really well. I just don't know whether these people are this stupid or have something else going on.


And to be honest, there is a broader "campaign" going on about some other cities. There are tons of people out there who legitimately think that cities burned to the ground in the riots in 2020. No joke. NYC for example right now is getting a lot of crap too. I have a friend who is now going to move to Miami who said that "NYC isn't safe anymore" despite Miami having higher violent crime rates and NYC having some of the lowest violent crime rates of any city in the US. I have another friend who moved to SF earlier this year from NYC as well. When we went back to visit, I had a conversation with her about this and she said that NYC is really dangerous now. I told her that actually, San Francisco has high rates of violent crimes like robbery and the murder rate is kind of similar. NYC is actually pretty low crime rate compared to most other cities. She had no idea and said she was just paying attention to social media. Funny thing is she actually moved to Oakland which has a higher murder rate than Chicago (way higher than NYC), and one of the highest robbery rates in the US of any city - like double that of Chicago and DC and right up there with Baltimore.

Back before we moved back to Chicago, I noticed a huge uptick on social media of people in NYC saying how dangerous it is, how crappy it is, etc etc. A lot of them were residents or former residents, but a lot were people who've never been there and just giving it crap. It reminded me of how Chicago started getting crap 10 to 15 years ago. It is pretty crazy. There was a video the other day shared by a far right media group on Twitter claiming that SoHo and TriBeCa now have tons of drug addicts and homeless on the streets. So many bad comments on the video. But it was of the scene around Canal St with all the vendors selling knock off goods. It's been like that for years. Just blatant misinformation campaign going on in a number of cities. I am kind of glad it's not ONLY Chicago. We only see the news here, but NYC has also lost some pretty major financial firm HQ in the last year just like here for similar reasons.
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Last edited by marothisu; Sep 15, 2022 at 4:34 AM.
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  #3502  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 1:43 PM
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Focusing on downtown was a good thing, but focusing TOO much on downtown was NOT a good thing. And if you ask Rahm today, he will admit this and I have 2nd hand knowledge of this. Near the end of his term, he realized the blunder he made it giving TOO much attention to downtown and not giving some others to other parts. If you ever wonder why after a certain time Rahm started spending time in the neighborhoods on the south and west sides, and stopped announcing stuff downtown (minus some corporate relocation/expansion stuff), then now you know why. You need downtown and you need all the other neighborhoods - they have to exist together as a well oiled machine otherwise the city isn't going to function as much. Just remember that once upon a time in Chicago, decades ago, downtown was MUCH MUCH smaller and the neighborhoods ruled more supreme than today as far as economics go.


As far as crime goes - I think everyone knows that there's a current shootings problem downtown. Apart from that though, this idea that you're more likely to be robbed or beat up downtown than even a handful of years ago is utter horseshit. That is the perception on social media but that's not the actual reality. The increase of those types of crimes is lower today than it was downtown 5 years ago. There are a lot of people today heavily influenced by social media and thinking that a few incidents they read means that things are more out of control than they've ever been. Which is just false. Luckily, Chicago has amazingly transparent data when it comes to crime.


Let's just look at some actual data for a minute here.

Robberies for Near North Side + The Loop + Near South Side each yr thru 9/6
2022: 482
2021: 367
2020: 353
2019: 457
2018: 531
2017: 545
2016: 422
2015: 300
2014: 242
2013: 296
2012: 371
2011: 429
2010: 407

There was a major spike in 2016 and then even higher in 2017 and 2018, and 2019 was still almost as high as it is in 2022 so far. And as you can see, 2010 was less but then you know, you have to consider the population changes here. The per 100K robbery rate in 2010 of these 3 areas was 310.3 per 100K and in 2022 (given 2020 population - the only thing we have) it is 273 per 100K. The robbery rate today is actually lower than it was in 2010 in these downtown areas.


Aggravated Assaults For Near North Side + The Loop + Near South Side each yr thru 9/6

2022: 291
2021: 227
2020: 241
2019: 270
2018: 242
2017: 246
2016: 225
2015: 175
2014: 162
2013: 160
2012: 194
2011: 182
2010: 250

The per 100K rate in 2010 was 190.6 vs. 164.8 in 2022. While 2022 here has the most in raw number, it's not that far above 2019. The actual spike happened between 2014 and 2016. And 2020 and 2021 were on par with 2016 and 2017. Yet, again - nobody back then was talking about the spike. It was only since 2020 and 2021 despite being about the same number of incidents.




And of course, I want to look at some of the north side areas because people up here will say the same thing specifically about the non-homicide violent crimes like robbery


Robberies for Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square, North Center, Uptown, and Edgewater each yr thru 9/6

2022: 433
2021: 295
2020: 306
2019: 324
2018: 401
2017: 448
2016: 493
2015: 359
2014: 366
2013: 538
2012: 569
2011: 533
2010: 562

You know what's interesting? Some people were freaking out in these areas even last year. Look - last year had the least amount of reported robberies in this area in over a decade at least (pretty sure it would be way more than that if I showed you more years). And while there's been an increase, 2016 and 2017 still had more robberies, and 2010 - 2013 (at least) had quite a bit more despite having a smaller population too.

Regardless - where was the outrage in 2016 and 2017? Where was it pre 2014?

Aggravated Battery for Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square, North Center, Uptown, and Edgewater each yr thru 9/6

2022: 207
2021: 190
2020: 204
2019: 226
2018: 184
2017: 188
2016: 216
2015: 174
2014: 197
2013: 203
2012: 268
2011: 287
2010: 278

2022 so far is even less than 2019 by a little bit and pretty similar to most other years back to 2013. And still a bit less than before 2013.


Again, my focus isn't necessarily to say "wow things are just low today." I think the rates have been too high in a lot of the city (not all - there's big chunks with relatively low rates) but to ask where the hell the business community leaders were and why they chose recently to come out and give crap. One of my big hypotheses is that they are paying way too much attention to chatter on social media. These people should be smarter than this and be able to do exactly what I did (or someone who works for them...) and see that in reality it's not necessarily any different than it's been in some previous years pre-2020. I am going to give them tons of crap for this and don't care. They should be smarter than this.





You clearly don't actually pay attention to what Lightfoot really says if you think she bows down to progressives. She's definitely not progressive and most progressives hate her right now too. Unless you believe that making some economic development projects on the south and west sides somehow counts as progressive (it doesn't).

Vallas doesn't seem to offer any real solutions and he's responsible for convincing Rahm to shut down a bunch of schools on the south and west sides. That led big time to some things declining in those areas. That guy would not be good for the city as a whole.
It's almost like those areas are specifically being targeted by gangs because they're the wealthiest neighborhoods in the City..who would have thought??
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  #3503  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 3:33 PM
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One thing I find ironic... the biggest "hellhole" in Illinois is practically in Bailey's backyard (Cairo). Though if someone would photoshop the Gates of Hell (Darvaza) onto the Spire pit, that would be pretty funny.
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  #3504  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 4:17 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Sorry, but CPS is losing about 10,000 students a year now. Why would we continue to maintain the same number of schools with that type of enrollment drop?

Rahm was 100% correct in losing schools. We need to close more. CPS budget has not shrank as enrollment drops, it's grown and per student spending is up big. We shouldn't waste money on maintaining buildings that are 50%+ empty.
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  #3505  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 6:15 PM
cityofneighborhoods cityofneighborhoods is offline
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It would be nice to hear more coherent plans backed by data of how to reduce various types of crimes. For example, I think Arne Duncan's proposal that a combination of intervention/mentoring + more detectives and better police/community engagement is the best way to decrease violent shootings and increase murder clearance rates. Is this being implemented? Technology like license plate readers have seemed to bring down the number of freeway/LSD shootings. Can these be used more extensively throughout the city?

What are some ways to reduce robberies, carjackings, etc, especially at night? What's the plan for not having police overworked and fully staffed? What's the plan for improving the relationship between police and communities throughout the city? How can business leaders support violence interruption, mentoring programs, and street outreach?

Who is leading on public safety? Seems like it should be an all hands on deck situation but leadership is lacking

Also, I think the South/West initiatives are great but it's been two years and very little updates or sense of urgency of getting these projects started. We keep hearing about this renewed focus and investment in neighborhoods but there's really not much to show for it.

Last edited by cityofneighborhoods; Sep 15, 2022 at 6:49 PM.
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  #3506  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 6:31 PM
lakeshoredrive lakeshoredrive is offline
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I am a fan of Buckner and I really like his plans so far, especially for public transportation. I am so tired of Lightfoot and need her to go.
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  #3507  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Sorry, but CPS is losing about 10,000 students a year now. Why would we continue to maintain the same number of schools with that type of enrollment drop?

Rahm was 100% correct in losing schools. We need to close more. CPS budget has not shrank as enrollment drops, it's grown and per student spending is up big. We shouldn't waste money on maintaining buildings that are 50%+ empty.
This is true, I wanted to reply but I posted too much from the article so you can read it here in the link


https://chicagocitywire.com/stories/...s-f-wirepoints


...

It also mentioned that out "Of CPS’ 478 stand-alone 'traditional' or non-charter, non-contract schools, one third of them, 150, are less than half-full, according to CPS.” The most empty schools, according to Wirepoints, are those that are barely 5% to 25% full and have poor educational performance on a statewide level. Despite the poor attendance figures, the Chicago Teachers Union has justified keeping the schools open.

“It’s why taxpayers should demand real school choice in the form of vouchers," Wirepoints reported. "Take Manley High School. It’s a glaring example of just how far CPS and CTU are willing to go. The school’s capacity? 1,296 students. The number of students now? Just 64 – 4.9% of available seats. Douglas High School? Capacity 888. Seats filled? 44. Uplift High School has a capacity of 720 seats but only 55, or 7.6 percent, are filled. The list goes on.”

...
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  #3508  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cityofneighborhoods View Post
It would be nice to hear more coherent plans backed by data of how to reduce various types of crimes. For example, I think Arne Duncan's proposal that a combination of intervention/mentoring + more detectives and better police/community engagement is the best way to decrease violent shootings and increase murder clearance rates. Is this being implemented? Technology like license plate readers have seemed to bring down the number of freeway/LSD shootings. Can these be used more extensively throughout the city?

What are some ways to reduce robberies, carjackings, etc, especially at night? What's the plan for not having police overworked and fully staffed? What's the plan for improving the relationship between police and communities throughout the city? How can business leaders support violence interruption, mentoring programs, and street outreach?

Who is leading on public safety? Seems like it should be an all hands on deck situation but leadership is lacking

Also, I think the South/West initiatives are great but it's been two years and very little updates or sense of urgency of getting these projects started. We keep hearing about this renewed focus and investment in neighborhoods but there's really not much to show for it.
I was posting about why its so hard to fix and how it will get worse due to the upcoming SAFE-T Act 1/1/23. But the link was too long. So I will share these videos. This will only make things worse, Not more safe.

Video Link


Video Link
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  #3509  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 8:09 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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murders in chicago (while still atrociously and shamefully high, as they've been for the past 6 decades now) are down 16% so far this year.

and as per marothisu's informative posts, lots of other crime indicators in the city are also down this year.

so why iteration #87 of "the great chicago crime conniption fit" right now at this particular moment in time?






ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's right, the dipshit from downstate is down 18 points with less than two months to go!

desperado..... why don't you come to your senses
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  #3510  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 8:13 PM
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Remember folks, ONLY Chicago/Illinois politics are allowed here.

Anyone even mentioning national/presidential politics in here will have their post deleted.
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  #3511  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 8:17 PM
urbanpln urbanpln is online now
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
I was posting about why its so hard to fix and how it will get worse due to the upcoming SAFE-T Act 1/1/23. But the link was too long. So I will share these videos. This will only make things worse, Not more safe.

Video Link


Video Link
You are taking this conversation down the usual ("this is going to destroy Chicago")rabbit hole. This conversation is headed towards deletion, and please don't believe most of the shit reported on tv.
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  #3512  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 9:09 PM
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A lot of discussion of real or perceived crime in this thread. My original post was about the McD CEO jobs move to Chicago and his comments about it that was covered locally, nationally, and internationally.

Posters are texting how to improve overall crime even if it is going down because that the impression of crime or reporting of it we get. Social Media is a driver but the perception is still there. This is not political for me. I offered some suggestion's on the matter but it was removed.

I would like a show of hands that think the SAFE-T Act will do anything to improve this.

Who is for the SAFE-T Act? And if so how it will improve overall crime levels and citizen safety and Chicago's image to help retain and bring in outsiders to relocate.
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  #3513  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 9:21 PM
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This is not political for me.
Bullshit.

You're spreading the very same lies and misinformation about the SAFE-T act that GOP operatives in this state want tools like you to spread precisely for political purposes in the upcoming elections.

And with that, it's probably high time for you to crawl back into the CE toilet where you can drink liberal tears to your heart's content.
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  #3514  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 11:14 PM
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I'm ignorant/late to the party, what is the SAFE-T act?
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  #3515  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 11:15 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Who is for the SAFE-T Act? And if so how it will improve overall crime levels and citizen safety and Chicago's image to help retain and bring in outsiders to relocate.
I'm not going to say which side i'm on, but if you want to bring this up here then go on what's in the actual bill and not some misinformed info pics or video clips from a suburban mayor or downstate police chief who clearly didn't read the bill.


There is no such thing as a "non-detainable" felony contrary to what this info pic being shared around says. The bill literally talks about the opposite and any of those crimes can result in someone being detained through their trial (i.e. "no bail" today). Anybody who is deemed to be a danger to the community, or a person, or is a big enough flight risk can be held through their trial per this bill for a whole slew of crimes. In fact, a bunch of crimes were added to the list where you could be detained pretrial that weren't even there before - a lot to do with discharge of firearms. This is the same as today in that an SA, with enough evidence, can ask a judge to hold someone "no bail." Let's look at the actual bill okay?

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...Sess=&Session=

Quote:
(725 ILCS 5/110-2)
(c) Detention only shall be imposed when it is determined that the defendant poses a specific, real and present threat to a person, or has a high likelihood of willful flight.
This is the same idea as "no bail" today - an SA has to ask a judge to hold someone no bail because they pose a threat to the public and/or they are a big flight risk to skip out on their trial and potential justice. This still exists in SAFE-T.


Quote:
(725 ILCS 5/110-4)

Sec. 110-4. Pretrial release
(a) All persons charged with an offense shall be eligible for pretrial release before conviction. Pretrial release may only be denied when a person is charged with an offense listed in Section 110-6.1 or when the defendant has a high likelihood of willful flight, and after the court has held a hearing under Section 110-6.1.

https://ilga.gov/legislation/101/HB/...3653sam002.htm
Quote:
(725 ILCS 5/110-6.1)

Upon verified petition by the State, the court shall hold a hearing and may deny a defendant pretrial release only if:
(1) the defendant who is charged with a forcible felony offense for which a sentence of imprisonment, without probation, periodic imprisonment or conditional discharge, is required by law upon conviction, and it is alleged that the defendant’s pretrial release poses a specific, real and present threat to any person or the community.

(2) the defendant is charged with stalking or aggravated stalking and it is alleged that the defendant's pre-trial release poses a real and present threat to the physical safety of a victim of the alleged offense, and denial of release is necessary to prevent fulfillment of the threat upon which the charge is based;

..

(4) the defendant is charged with domestic battery or aggravated domestic battery under Section 12-3.2 or 12-3.3 of the Criminal Code of 2012 and it is alleged that the defendant's pretrial release poses a real and present threat to the physical safety of any person or persons;

..

(6) the defendant is charged with any of these violations under the Criminal Code of 2012 and it is alleged that the defendant's pretrial releases poses a real and present threat to the physical safety of any specifically identifiable person or persons:
...
Numbers 2, 4, and 6 are new. I didn't list out point 6 in entirety but it lists aggravated discharge of a firearm, unlawful sale/delivery of firearms, unlawful purchase of a firearm, etc. Now people who are charged with stalking or domestic battery can be held thru their trial whereas before they couldn't be. And discharge of a firearm too. NONE of that was "detainable" previously and now will be. They actually expanded the scope of what can be asked for to hold someone thru their trial to include even unlawful discharge of a firearm. And what does Illinois say is a "forcible felony?"
https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...=072000050K2-8

Quote:
Sec. 2-8. "Forcible felony". "Forcible felony" means treason, first degree murder, second degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, aggravated criminal sexual assault, criminal sexual assault, robbery, burglary, residential burglary, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated kidnaping, kidnaping, aggravated battery resulting in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.


Literally these images that are being shared on the above crimes are the exact opposite of what the bill says. The bill says that anyone who commits a forcible felony can be denied pretrial release by a judge if the person "poses a specific, real and present threat to any person or the community"



People need to read the damn bill instead of thinking what they're being fed in the media is actually correct on this. The whole bill is meant to clear up jails for people on lower level offenses and focus on keeping those charged with violent crimes with good enough evidence detained through their trials. And the scope expands to even be able to ask to detain people who are charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm, something that's not even covered today by this. This is doing the opposite of what a lot of people even realize for the violent crime aspect. Again, people need to read the damn bill instead of listening to some video clips or some BS image shared on social media.
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Last edited by marothisu; Sep 15, 2022 at 11:45 PM.
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  #3516  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2022, 11:56 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Thanks for posting this info marothisu.... And when you frame it like that - Yeah, makes total sense. Given IL is the first state in the nation to try this (correct me if I'm wrong), it will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next year......
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  #3517  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2022, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I'm not going to say which side i'm on, but if you want to bring this up here then go on what's in the actual bill and not some misinformed info pics or video clips from a suburban mayor or downstate police chief who clearly didn't read the bill.


There is no such thing as a "non-detainable" felony contrary to what this info pic being shared around says. The bill literally talks about the opposite and any of those crimes can result in someone being detained through their trial (i.e. "no bail" today). Anybody who is deemed to be a danger to the community, or a person, or is a big enough flight risk can be held through their trial per this bill for a whole slew of crimes. In fact, a bunch of crimes were added to the list where you could be detained pretrial that weren't even there before - a lot to do with discharge of firearms. This is the same as today in that an SA, with enough evidence, can ask a judge to hold someone "no bail." Let's look at the actual bill okay?

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...Sess=&Session=



This is the same idea as "no bail" today - an SA has to ask a judge to hold someone no bail because they pose a threat to the public and/or they are a big flight risk to skip out on their trial and potential justice. This still exists in SAFE-T.





https://ilga.gov/legislation/101/HB/...3653sam002.htm


Numbers 2, 4, and 6 are new. I didn't list out point 6 in entirety but it lists aggravated discharge of a firearm, unlawful sale/delivery of firearms, unlawful purchase of a firearm, etc. Now people who are charged with stalking or domestic battery can be held thru their trial whereas before they couldn't be. And discharge of a firearm too. NONE of that was "detainable" previously and now will be. They actually expanded the scope of what can be asked for to hold someone thru their trial to include even unlawful discharge of a firearm. And what does Illinois say is a "forcible felony?"
https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...=072000050K2-8





Literally these images that are being shared on the above crimes are the exact opposite of what the bill says. The bill says that anyone who commits a forcible felony can be denied pretrial release by a judge if the person "poses a specific, real and present threat to any person or the community"



People need to read the damn bill instead of thinking what they're being fed in the media is actually correct on this. The whole bill is meant to clear up jails for people on lower level offenses and focus on keeping those charged with violent crimes with good enough evidence detained through their trials. And the scope expands to even be able to ask to detain people who are charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm, something that's not even covered today by this. This is doing the opposite of what a lot of people even realize for the violent crime aspect. Again, people need to read the damn bill instead of listening to some video clips or some BS image shared on social media.
Thanks for clarifying!
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  #3518  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2022, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
People need to read the damn bill instead of thinking what they're being fed in the media is actually correct on this. The whole bill is meant to clear up jails for people on lower level offenses and focus on keeping those charged with violent crimes with good enough evidence detained through their trials. And the scope expands to even be able to ask to detain people who are charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm, something that's not even covered today by this. This is doing the opposite of what a lot of people even realize for the violent crime aspect. Again, people need to read the damn bill instead of listening to some video clips or some BS image shared on social media.
^ Why should I believe what the bill says when I can believe what other people told me to

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Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive View Post
I am a fan of Buckner and I really like his plans so far, especially for public transportation. I am so tired of Lightfoot and need her to go.
I had a chat with Buckner and he genuinely loves Chicago and wants to see all parts of the city reach its potential. It's refreshing seeing a candidate who takes initiative and proposes solutions to problems (CTA, infrastructure, TOD, crime), rather than the Vallas or Lopez type of candidates that use fear mongering to attract voters
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  #3519  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2022, 12:35 AM
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Thanks for posting this info marothisu.... And when you frame it like that - Yeah, makes total sense. Given IL is the first state in the nation to try this (correct me if I'm wrong), it will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next year......
This is also part of the disinformation in a way. Illinois isn't the first state to eliminate cash bail in some major capacity.

New Jersey did it in 2017:
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/ho...l-breakthrough

https://whyy.org/segments/one-year-s...l-heres-going/

Interestingly, Newark's violent crime rate has come way down since then. I have no idea if it's 100% related though
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Old Posted Sep 16, 2022, 1:00 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Thanks for clarifying!
It's just incredible that there is such an egregious misinformation campaign going on about this. These people claim if someone is charged with a bunch of types of felonies that they can't be held in any circumstance. It's just so false - not only does it lay it out that it's for any forcible felony, but that clause was in there already. The current rule on which felonies are possibly "detainable" stays the same. And they've added new charges to the list that are detainable including stalking, domestic battery, aggravated discharge of a firearm (i.e. shooting someone), unlawful sale of firearms/ammo, etc etc.

The bill is covering even more "ground" in what charges can lead to someone being detained up through their trial today. It basically leads to freeing up people from being held by charges like possession of a controlled substance, theft (i.e. shoplifting, pickpocketing, etc of certain amounts), etc and expands the ability of a judge to hold people pre-trial for the same violent offenses as today PLUS expanded ones like I mentioned above.

That part is almost literally the opposite of what that BS infographic indicates. Anybody with a brain and reads these sections of the bill can see this.


The only thing open is how it changes from "the defendant poses a real and present threat to the safety of any person or persons" to "the defendant poses a real and present threat to the safety of a specific, identifiable person or persons." Does that mean that if someone is robbed, that the victim has to be known by identity or just merely "we have a person and evidence that some person was robbed, and therefore their safety is in danger."
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Last edited by marothisu; Sep 16, 2022 at 1:48 AM.
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