Rate your city's recovery - Page 3

dktshb · #41 Posted **Jan 11, 2023, 11:41 PM**

Downtown San Francisco continues to suffer. It has become apparent that a large minority (if not majority) are never going to return to the office (certainly not full time). My own employer is making us come to the office 3 times a week starting in February rather than the 2 we're doing now. Some vacant spaces are getting filled but there just isn't the vibrancy needed and there certainly hasn't been any convention action. Hopefully over the years many of these buildings will be converted to needed residential.

homebucket · #42 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 12:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb

Downtown San Francisco continues to suffer. It has become apparent that a large minority (if not majority) are never going to return to the office (certainly not full time). My own employer is making us come to the office 3 times a week starting in February rather than the 2 we're doing now. Some vacant spaces are getting filled but there just isn't the vibrancy needed and there certainly hasn't been any convention action. Hopefully over the years many of these buildings will be converted to needed residential.

Benioff is starting to grumble about remote workers not being as productive. Some companies have committed to full remote. But with companies starting to trim off the excess, we may start seeing them gain some leverage back.

For most of the pandemic the workers have had the power as many tech companies were hiring. If companies threatened to end remote work, the employees would just quit and take their talents to another company. Now they don't have that luxury anymore.

Otherwise I agree about converting buildings to residential but that's going to take a lot of time. Entire buildings would need to be emptied out first. Converting vacant spaces here and there in sporadic places isn't economically viable.

pdxtex · #43 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 12:56 AM**

^^^ yes I'll agree. Some conversions might take place but not millions and millions of sq. footage. Its going to take a hard recession and a f#ck ton of layoffs to swing power back to employers. Do big companies even want to renew their leases anyway? I've yet to read of any broad consensus. It seems to be industry specific

JManc · #44 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 2:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st

Visited chicago in October. The Loop is....better than 2021 but the office corridors aren't doing well.

Michigan Ave looks close to what it was, at least with pedestrians. Most Chicago neighborhoods felt similar to pre covid. But the office stuff....

I think downtown DC is the most hit, but I haven't seen downtown SF yet.

Picture the Walking Dead with streetcars.

Wigs · #45 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

I wish Portland had those problems. This place is populated by introvert shut ins. Many people are STILL wearing masks. My girlfriend and I are considering relocating. Her brother already moved to Knoxville and her parents are starting to talk about it too. Im not going to say the west is lost but there is so much civic disarray happening up and down the coast. The mood in the city is edgey as hell too. The mayor keeps losing key staff and he's facing a employees' revolt. Might be time to go back to Ann Arbor.

give Buffalo a try. October unemployment was 2.7%

Omaharocks · #46 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 5:22 AM**

I'll post about the cities I'm familiar with or have lived in that I've also been to recently:

Atlanta, 8/10, homelessness has increased around downtown at the same time there are fewer workers, but all the students from GSU still keeps things busy during the day. Overall the city has a more unkempt feel, not quite as clean, way more graffiti in some areas than pre-pandemic, but economically & socially seems fine and there's construction everywhere, as always.

Omaha, 10/10, I haven't lived there in 15 years but I go back every year. Omaha has never been much affected by national economic downturns or trending social disorder, and the city improves bit by bit every year. Downtown is better than ever with the new Gene Leahy park/mall redo. I'm sure the CBD around 16th has less people than before, but that section of downtown always felt sleepy to begin with.

Portland, 3/10, I was last here in September, but good grief. Maybe it's that I lived there 2004-2005, when it was easily the cleanest place in America and had unbelievable civic pride, but it's really hit a rough patch. My guess is it will fully recover in about 5 years.

New Orleans, 8/10, same as Atlanta minus all the construction activity

Austin, 9/10, was there in August. Seemed fully recovered to me, east side was all tagged up but maybe that was becoming the norm pre-pandemic too

pdxtex · #47 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 5:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigs

give Buffalo a try. October unemployment was 2.7%

Buffalo is very, very interesting to me actually, mostly for its proximity to Toronto, Detroit, NYC and Holliday Valley! Access to snowsports is one of my stipulations. Ive actually done lots of Google driving in Buffalo. Elmwood Ave and that Allentown neighborhood look good. So does Kenmore.

wwmiv · #48 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 6:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Austin, 9/10, was there in August. Seemed fully recovered to me, east side was all tagged up but maybe that was becoming the norm pre-pandemic too

This was always the norm pre-pandemic, and graffiti outside of gang signs is generally considered by Austinites as local artwork. Generally the trend has been a decrease over the last 50 years.

BigDipper 80 · #49 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 1:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Buffalo is very, very interesting to me actually, mostly for its proximity to Toronto, Detroit, NYC and Holliday Valley! Access to snowsports is one of my stipulations. Ive actually done lots of Google driving in Buffalo. Elmwood Ave and that Allentown neighborhood look good. So does Kenmore.

Holiday Valley is awesome, as is Peek n' Peak. Probably the two best ski resorts in the northeastern US. Obviously they don't compare to anything out west but they're very nice for what they are. Snowshoe is a bit of a haul from Buffalo, but when you're there you'd swear you're in Vail and not West Virginia.

Wigs · #50 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 3:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Buffalo is very, very interesting to me actually, mostly for its proximity to Toronto, Detroit, NYC and Holliday Valley! Access to snowsports is one of my stipulations. Ive actually done lots of Google driving in Buffalo. Elmwood Ave and that Allentown neighborhood look good. So does Kenmore.

To not clog up the thread

TexasPlaya · #51 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 3:35 PM**

Things look and feel like normal in Austin except for the traffic just seems awful instead of dog sh*t wrapped in cat sh*t.

Not really sure how the tech layoffs are affecting things yet as I’m in healthcare company and things are very strong.

austlar1 · #52 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 8:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Things look and feel like normal in Austin except for the traffic just seems awful instead of dog sh*t wrapped in cat sh*t.

Not really sure how the tech layoffs are affecting things yet as I’m in healthcare company and things are very strong.

I was thinking the same thing about Austin. Freeway traffic and arterial traffic throughout the day is usually ferocious, but rush hour congestion is not as intense as it used to be. Downtown looks very busy. The hotels and restaurants seem to be doing a lot of business, so I guess there must be a good deal of convention activity and tourism. I wish the local media would provide more information about tech layoffs. There are several large office building projects under construction in spite of all the negative press about the impact of WFH on commercial real estate. Residential high rise construction downtown continues on a large scale. Who are all the people who seem to be leasing apartments or buying condos downtown? Where do they work? The new Austin is kind of a mystery to me in many ways, but it is clearly turning into something quite different very rapidly.

TWAK · #53 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 9:24 PM**

Oh, I forgot to give a rating for my unincorporated area:
9/10 for COVID.
4/10 for the Great Recession.

pdxtex · #54 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 9:40 PM**

Portlands biggest encumbrance now is what to do with all the homeless ppl. California cities are probably trying to so the same. At the height of the pandemic people were camping right in the middle of downtown 1 block from the luxury mall. Crazy. There were some streets in downtown proper, not Chinatown that looked like robocop. Ive never been to Philly but I've seen those Kensington Ave videos on YouTube. It looked like that, but not way out in the hood. :*( It turns out while the city was ordered not to sweep any homeless camps, the outreach agency jointly run by the county was handing out thousands of tents, over 20,000. Crazy. So where did all the tents come from you might ask? From the people in charge. :/

TWAK · #55 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Portlands biggest encumbrance now is what to do with all the homeless ppl. California cities are probably trying to so the same. At the height of the pandemic people were camping right in the middle of downtown 1 block from the mall. Crazy. There were some streets in downtown proper, not Chinatown that looked like robocop. Ive never been to Philly but I've seen those Kensington Ave videos on YouTube. It looked like that, but not way out in the hood. :*( It turns out while the city was ordered not to sweep any homeless camps, the outreach agency jointly run by the county was handing out thousands of tents, over 20,000. Crazy. So where did all the tents come from you might ask? From the people in charge. :/

Sacramento is probably doing the most for hitting all angles of the issue, like clearing encampments or setting up housing. Sac county recently purchased a warehouse to provide housing/services, as well as let RVs and cars park outside in the parking lot.

pdxtex · #56 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 10:35 PM**

In light of the 9th Circuit's ruling in the Boise case, the city is still going to try and ban street camping. Their work around is going to be 6 giant refugee, I mean sanctioned camps. The mayor is having a hard time selling or securing funding for this idea.

benp · #57 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 11:14 PM**

7/10 Buffalo Downtown - way fewer office workers and less busy during workdays, though more residential completed and hundreds of new units on the way
10/10 Buffalo Neighborhoods - seem to be getting stronger than pre-COVID, new businesses and high demand in nearly every neighborhood - anecdotal but my neighborhood grocer (Tops) has grown A LOT busier than pre-COVID

Overall a few apartment projects that were delayed have restarted (~4000 units completed or under construction today in the city, more in burbs, highest in living memory), housing has continued to rise in cost (though still lower than national average) and is in very high demand with bidding wars continuing, employers have expanded presence downtown but not all workers in the offices, new housing construction has crept up but still low as prices holding back demand, unemployment at 3.1% (lowest ever) mainly due to worker shortage, population shows decrease per census but may be a reflection of decline in number of students at some area colleges, hotel demand still down, even as 1 hotel (Grand) closed due to fire has not reopened and destination hotel (Henry) reopening still pending

Around 25% of workers in the area now work remotely, with a significant number of remote workers who moved here during the epidemic taking advantage of lower costs (including family members relocating from TX and CA).

pdxtex · #58 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 11:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by benp

7/10 Buffalo Downtown - way fewer office workers and less busy during workdays, though more residential completed and hundreds of new units on the way
10/10 Buffalo Neighborhoods - seem to be getting stronger than pre-COVID, new businesses and high demand in nearly every neighborhood - anecdotal but my neighborhood grocer (Tops) has grown A LOT busier than pre-COVID

Overall a few apartment projects that were delayed have restarted (~4000 units completed or under construction today in the city, more in burbs, highest in living memory), housing has continued to rise in cost (though still lower than national average) and is in very high demand with bidding wars continuing, employers have expanded presence downtown but not all workers in the offices, new housing construction has crept up but still low as prices holding back demand, unemployment at 3.1% (lowest ever) mainly due to worker shortage, population shows decrease per census but may be a reflection of decline in number of students at some area colleges, hotel demand still down, even as 1 hotel (Grand) closed due to fire has not reopened and destination hotel (Henry) reopening still pending

Around 25% of workers in the area now work remotely, with a significant number of remote workers who moved here during the epidemic taking advantage of lower costs (including family members relocating from TX and CA).

Wow. Buffalo must be having its Portland moment. Honestly I've heard Buffalo come up more and more in urbanist circles. The Bills have a weird cult following too.

benp · #59 Posted **Jan 12, 2023, 11:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Wow. Buffalo must be having its Portland moment. Honestly I've heard Buffalo come up more and more in urbanist circles. The Bills have a weird cult following too.

My daughter moved to Portland for college in 2010, and I was very impressed with Portland at the time as it was so clean and orderly (even the homeless were younger and neater back then). I believe that "the city that works" was a motto at the time. The NW District and SE near Hawthorne and 16th reminded me a lot of Buffalo neighborhoods. The growth of the Pearl seemed to me something Buffalo could aspire to, but even today Buffalo is no where near where Portland was in that regard in 2010.

I visited this summer and spent most of my time SE, and as much as I still like Portland it just didn't feel like it had turned a positive corner. Most of the camps were cleaned up, but the city just seemed more worn down, many neighborhood businesses shut down or unkempt, and it was without that positive energy it had before. Shopping at the grocery store and watching people leave without paying was kind of defeating, as were the people in the parking lot living in their cars with their pets. It wasn't as bad as stories people tell about Portland, but it has to wear heavily on the psyche of people living there (it absolutely does on my daughter).

Wigs · #60 Posted **Jan 13, 2023, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Wow. Buffalo must be having its Portland moment. Honestly I've heard Buffalo come up more and more in urbanist circles. The Bills have a weird cult following too.

Come tour Buffalo in Summer

you might just really fall in love. You can be part of the renaissance unlike Portland that already got Portlandia'D years ago.

BenP is the resident Buffalo expert
I've yet to see an SSP forumer that has more knowledge than him (and I have a ton!) On SSC Buffalo development forum it would be westcoastperspective (Ben is there too)

BenP's google streetviews on SSC really show much Buffalo is transforming back into a great city once again.

or you can view them here on his Flickr, starting from page 22
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bpawlik/page22

It's really amazing the city of Buffalo added something like 10,000 plus units between censuses.