Diversity in Canadian cities

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I have nothing beyond anecdote, but, to me, most Persians generally look like something in the spectrum between South Asian and Arab. To me, they often look "visibly nonwhite" and quite frequently could be mistaken for South Asian.

Of course it's a massive, diverse country, with lots of distinct ethnics, but I'm talking the most common appearances. Actually, the cuisine, too, on a very basic level, is like a South Asian-Arab mashup.

I generally agree with you but I think you're off on this. To me Persians look Persian. I don't think they look South Asian at all and to me at least the cuisine strikes me as being more Mediterranean than South Asian.

If anything, I think there are some visual similarities between Persians and people from the Caucases. Like if you didn't know the Kardashians were Armenian, imo they could pass as Persian.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I have nothing beyond anecdote, but, to me, most Persians generally look like something in the spectrum between South Asian and Arab. To me, they often look "visibly nonwhite" and quite frequently could be mistaken for South Asian.

Of course it's a massive, diverse country, with lots of distinct ethnics, but I'm talking the most common appearances. Actually, the cuisine, too, on a very basic level, is like a South Asian-Arab mashup.

Most Iranians don't pass for European, but a good deal of them do overlap with Greeks/Italians. A fair number even have blue eyes or lighter hair.

Looking online, I found this pic of youngish Iranians protesting the regime from a Youtube video. Probably 2/3rds of them I would just think were "white" if I passed them in the street.

[Docere]

The high VM identity among Iranians is higher in part because they're listed as an example under West Asian (e.g. Iranian, Afghan).

Armenians and Turks are "supposed to" tick the West Asian box but usually don't.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Looking online, I found this pic of youngish Iranians protesting the regime from a Youtube video. Probably 2/3rds of them I would just think were "white" if I passed them in the street.

Yeah, but not sure that protesters are nationally representative. Probably overwhelmingly highly educated cosmopolitan urbanites.

My SIL is Persian, of upper class Tehranian background, and could easily pass for South Asian. Her whole family could. Granted, "high caste" stereotypes, but they could pass.

[Doady]

Seems like New Yorkers have been very supportive of increasing diversity in Canadian cities:

Bus tickets paid by New York City helping migrants get close to Roxham Road crossing
With an overflow of migrants, NYC will give financial help those looking to relocate

CBC News · Posted: Feb 06, 2023 3:50 PM EST

Asylum seekers can go from New York City to parts of the state near the U.S. border with Canada — and later attempt to cross at Roxham Road — with a bus ticket paid for by American authorities.

Mayor Eric Adams's office says it does not finance tickets to Roxham Road, and does not help people cross the Canada-U.S. border. But people who want to go to Plattsburgh, N.Y., — which is near the Canadian border — can do so by bus.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...-bus-1.6738824

See also:

Migrant found dead near Quebec’s Roxham Road border crossing

RCI
Posted: January 5, 2023 3:52 PM

Provincial police confirmed the death on Thursday

A man was found dead on Wednesday near Roxham Road, a common passage between the United States and Canada used by migrants to claim asylum.

The man was a migrant who was trying to cross the unofficial border, according to police sources who spoke to Radio-Canada on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

...

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/n...order-crossing

[Docere]

Canada is way more secular than the US. Pretty much New England/Pacific Northwest levels throughout.

Religious nones

Newfoundland 16%
Prince Edward Island 28%
Nova Scotia 38%
New Brunswick 30%
Quebec 27%
Ontario 32%
Manitoba 37%
Saskatchewan 37%
Alberta 40%
British Columbia 52%

[Docere]

Ethnic origins of Black Canadians:

Total 1,547,870

North American origins 164,820

Canadian 91,850
African American 21,665
African Canadian 29,370

European origins 172,225

English 33,995
Scottish 32,125
Irish 31,960
French 31,060

Caribbean origins 548,060

Jamaican 201,400
Haitian 167,445
African Caribbean 52,630
Caribbean not otherwise specified 40,515
Trinidadian 30,235
Barbadian 22,615

Latin, Central and South American origins 34,340

Guyanese 20,945

African origins 847,045

African not otherwise specified 243,135
Nigerian 66,890
Somali 62,060
Congolese 42,845
Ethiopian 40,275
Eritrean 34,835
Ghanaian 30,150

Other ethnic and cultural origins
Black not otherwise specified 77,175

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Ethnic origins of Black Canadians:

Total 1,547,870

North American origins 164,820

Canadian 91,850
African American 21,665
African Canadian 29,370

European origins 172,225

English 33,995
Scottish 32,125
Irish 31,960
French 31,060

Interesting... more European than North American. Are these usually (recent?) European citizens who became immigrants to Canada (e.g. English or French being what a Black Londoner or Black Parisian would put down)?

Or people with mixed Black (which they may or may not specify to a more detailed origin?) and a European ethnic origin that they can identify?

Or people from British or French overseas territories that happen to be Black?

A mix of these?

[Acajack]

Interesting though in my experience it's fairly rare to encounter people from France in Canada who are black and identify as "French". Most people who are black and lived in France before coming here still tend self-identify with another country in Africa or the Caribbean, ie those of their parents or grandparents even. Not France.

I know there are lots of black people in France itself who identify as French but it seems like they are very under-represented in the population that moves to Canada and identifies as French.

I get the sense that similar things are at play with British black people who moved to Canada, though perhaps to a lesser degree.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Interesting... more European than North American. Are these usually (recent?) European citizens who became immigrants to Canada (e.g. English or French being what a Black Londoner or Black Parisian would put down)?

Or people with mixed Black (which they may or may not specify to a more detailed origin?) and a European ethnic origin that they can identify?

Or people from British or French overseas territories that happen to be Black?

A mix of these?

Mostly biracial. Otherwise Irish and Scottish would be less common.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Docere

Mostly biracial. Otherwise Irish and Scottish would be less common.

I know in the case of the UK there's no evidence that a stable black population is forming at least. That is to say that the first big black migration (the Anglo-Caribbeans who migrated in the 1960s) intermixed with the general British population to such a degree there are more biracial Britons with Caribbean ancestry than ones with "100%" black Caribbean ancestry.

Of course, there are more black people these days due to larger, more recent migrations from Nigeria and elsewhere in Africa, but they also seem to be moving towards intermarrying at a rate more similar to secular Jews in the U.S. than African-Americans.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interesting though in my experience it's fairly rare to encounter people from France in Canada who are black and identify as "French". Most people who are black and lived in France before coming here still tend self-identify with another country in Africa or the Caribbean, ie those of their parents or grandparents even. Not France.

I know there are lots of black people in France itself who identify as French but it seems like they are very under-represented in the population that moves to Canada and identifies as French.

I get the sense that similar things are at play with British black people who moved to Canada, though perhaps to a lesser degree.

There is French, the nationality, and French, the ethnicity. Biden's Press Secretary is black (of Haitian descent) but French because she was born there.

[Docere]

The ancestry question is based on self-identification. One person born in England to Jamaican parents may think to write "English", another may not.

[Docere]

Christianity is on the decline in Canada. Only 3% each belong to the major mainline denominations, United Church and Anglican. And in the 2021, Catholics for the first time declined for the first time, after a constant 12-13 million since 1991. Nonaffiliated are now 35%.

From the 2021 census

Christian total: 19,373,325 53.3%

Catholic 10,880,360 29.9%
United Church 1,214,185 3.3%
Anglican 1,134,315 3.1%
Christian Orthodox 623,010 1.7%
Baptist 436,940 1.2%
Pentecostal 399,025 1.1%
Lutheran 328,045 0.9%
Presbyterian 301,400 0.8%
Other Christian 745,650 2.1%
Christian, n.o.s. 2,760,760 7.6%

Muslim 1,775,715 4.9%
Hindu 828,195 2.3%
Sikh 771,790 2.1%
Buddhist 356,975 1%
Jewish 335,295 0.9%

Nonreligious: 12,577,475 34.6%

Religious nones exceeds the number of self-identified Catholics in Canada now.

[Docere]

% Christian

Filipino 93.8%
Latin American 73.6%
Black 69.1%
Not a visible minority 59%
Korean 58.3%
Southeast Asian 26.7%
Chinese 20.2%
Arab 19.5%
Japanese 19.5%
West Asian 10%
South Asian 9.5%

% no religion

Chinese 71.7%
Japanese 67.7%
Korean 39.8%
Not a visible minority 38.6%
Southeast Asian 35.8%
West Asian 28.5%
Latin American 24.4%
Black 18%
South Asian 6.1%
Arab 5.8%
Filipino 5.7%

[Crawford]

A lot more Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs than Mainline Protestants. Not surprising, I guess.

[Docere]

Yup.

Mainline Protestants (Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian and United Church) are down to just 8% of the population.

[ColDayMan]

"Not a visible minority" - Are they afraid to say...white?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

"Not a visible minority" - Are they afraid to say...white?

Technically includes Indigenous people as well. "Visible minority" = non-European, non-Indigenous.

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Technically includes Indigenous people as well. "Visible minority" = non-European, non-Indigenous.

Interesting, though confused why Indigenous aren't a visible minority as I don't believe they are near the majority of non-white ethnic groups in Canada, no? Or do they get their own category, like how the USA separates non-Hispanic/Latino and Hispanic/Latino?

Sorry for the inquiry but that's just very interesting they grouped two totally separate ethnic groups into "visible majority."