NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[Drcastro]

Yeah, down with supertalls! Bring on the megatalls!

[NYguy]

I go through here frequently, and it’s not that bad. Some people like to sit on the floor because it’s squeaky clean. But for the most part, I think there should be MORE people on this side. And there will be when retail opens. The construction mess on the other side doesn’t help. Still, all the more reason for the planned improvements.


https://mobile.twitter.com/ingasaffr...33213653209088

It was clear since Moynihan Train Hall opened that the waiting area was too small and didn’t have enough seats. Today, the waiting room is full and dozens of travelers are sitting on the floor

[Busy Bee]

European train sheds with wide platforms alleviate a lot of this kind of waiting crowd from the rest of the terminal. Unfortunately that's not an option here.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

European train sheds with wide platforms alleviate a lot of this kind of waiting crowd from the rest of the terminal. Unfortunately that's not an option here.

I wish the photographer had posted photos of the waiting area. It’s not clear just how full that was, but I rarely see it full. Most people don’t want to sit in there, the floor area is nicer. I still feel that Moynihan is currently underutilized as a boarding area. They regularly make announcements to people that it’s open and they could board in that side. But there’s no reason for anyone who didn’t kniw to drag their luggage over there. Nothing’s open yet but a Starbucks, and a flower/gift shop. I’m expecting all of that to change when the shops and the food hall open. Moynihan itself will be more of a destination.

Of course, they could just add more seats to the floor area. I don’t think it would take anything away.

[Crawford]

Moynihan is just a small portion of the overall Empire Station redevelopment. So it isn't surprising it's currently a bit cramped, especially with Penn getting an overhaul, and the Penn South project not yet u/c.

I'm not even sure I agree with adding benches, as the train hall, while large, isn't gigantic, and benches would make it somewhat more congested. Perhaps European-style standing tables would make more sense.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Moynihan is just a small portion of the overall Empire Station redevelopment. So it isn't surprising it's currently a bit cramped, especially with Penn getting an overhaul, and the Penn South project not yet u/c.

I'm not even sure I agree with adding benches, as the train hall, while large, isn't gigantic, and benches would make it somewhat more congested. Perhaps European-style standing tables would make more sense.

The thing about Moynihan is that it’s the designated area for Amtrak, or long distance travelers. So it’s where the people with luggage, or those who most likely have the long waits need to be. I know there’s a nicer waiting area and lounge upstairs, but it’s a member’s thing. Opening in the middle of the pandemic hid a lot if these concerns, but we’re gradually building back up to peak travel levels.

[NYguy]

By the way, here’s another side to that issue…

https://mobile.twitter.com/marni4cou...06883184967685

People without tickets that want to take up the space.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by NYguy

You know, it’s shocking that so called “supertalls” could be built in Midtown, of all places. These people sicken me with such stupidity.

Pure foolishness. if anything blocks the sunlight and even views, it's the short fat buildings, especially when they take up most of block. And even 1 Penn blocks the view of the ESB and it's nowhere near a supertall. However, I don't really like the designs of the proposed buildings - I wish a the taller ones could be tapered as they rise.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Pure foolishness. if anything blocks the sunlight and even views, it's the short fat buildings, especially when they take up most of block. And even 1 Penn blocks the view of the ESB and it's nowhere near a supertall. However, I don't really like the designs of the proposed buildings - I wish a the taller ones could be tapered as they rise.

There really aren't any designs yet. For the main site of development, they will first have to choose a developer. Meanwhile, Vornado's 15 Penn is still fluid. But being office towers, they will most certainly be bulky buildings. There are a couple of sites that could be mixed-use (office/residential).

Anyway, this photo taken yesterday is typically closer to what Moynihan looks like, though usually with more people. But not overcrowded like in the photos above.

[NYguy]

This loon thinks they want to build this development because they’re jealous of Hudson Yards.



https://nypost.com/2021/07/18/andrew...us-boondoggle/

Andrew Cuomo’s Penn Station ‘rescue’ is a monstrous boondoggle


By Nicole Gelinas
July 18, 2021

Gov. Andrew Cuomo wants to ram a monstrosity onto a pandemic-traumatized Manhattan: his “Empire Station” and Penn South project. The boondoggle — unpriced but in the tens of billions — is a huge favor to a developer who is jealous of Hudson Yards. It’s supposed to raise money for transit but will suck money away from MTA needs.

Empire Station will supposedly save Penn Station by creating eight new tracks for the 21-track hub, bringing “natural light” inside the terminal and allowing more capacity for New Jersey Transit. Cuomo hopes eight office towers will pay for much of the new station: Think Hudson Yards, but with Madison Square Garden shoved in the middle, instead of the Vessel.

This, when Hudson Yards is still only half-built, and the Port ­Authority, a few blocks north, wants a separate four skyscrapers for a new bus terminal.

The state is going to want to borrow against the future PILOTS, to fund Penn construction, but these bonds will be the junkiest of junk. That means either a guarantee from a stronger state entity, or a high interest rate that eats away at the funds available.

There is no financial case, then, for Vornado to build empty office towers in order to contribute to transit. No, it’s likely to be the other way around: The transit will subsidize the towers.

For this, the state would displace functional commerce.

The widget theory is that more office space means cheaper office space. No: Older office space is cheaper. Many tenants can’t afford well above $100 per square foot, so, if that supply vanishes, they’ll leave.

Other residents and businesses will leave because of the horrific noise inflicted by construction. The project’s answer? It will buy people air conditioners — and they should keep the windows shut . . . for 10 years.

This is disrespect for people who live and work in an actual dense city, so that Vornado can build an HY-style campus. Samuel Turvey of ReThinkNYC calls it an “anti-urban juggernaut.”

You won’t be able to sell churros from a cart or knockoff pocketbooks there, leaving the rest of the city overrun with illegal vendors.

[Busy Bee]

I'd call the Post a rag, but it really doesn't even deserve that honor. It's really devolved into an absurdist partisen propaganda tool. Like a right wing Onion.

[Sky88]

Well, I believe that beyond the criticisms, this project will go on. Of course I am not very enthusiastic about the towers proposed so far by Vornado. I believe a solution more similar to the Gotham Gateway project, with the Gotham Tower placed on site 3 and a possible 1,200 ft tower on site 5 and the remaining much lower towers, could be a viable alternative.






instead of...

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I'd call the Post a rag, but it really doesn't even deserve that honor. It's really devolved into an absurdist partisen propaganda tool. Like a right wing Onion.

We agree for once. The Post is absurd.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I'd call the Post a rag, but it really doesn't even deserve that honor. It's really devolved into an absurdist partisen propaganda tool. Like a right wing Onion.

Well, I don’t get into the politics of particular papers, especially in this case because she’s an editor at the City Journal.
https://www.city-journal.org/

I either agree with a piece, or I don’t. They publish plenty of developer leaning articles in the Post. That said, it’s a ridiculous piece. She’s actually complaining because she thinks people won’t be able to sell knockoff bags on the sidewalks? Just goes to show, there is no end to the mindset of NIMBYism.

[NYguy]

• Video Link

[NYguy]

[JMKeynes]

I’d be ok with this if it including razing MSG. That vile POS must come down, and I oppose any plan that does not tear it down.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I’d be ok with this if it including razing MSG. That vile POS must come down, and I oppose any plan that does not tear it down.

At this point, I’d be happy with a reskin and upzoning of the msg site since I highly doubt that they are going anywhere. In a perfect world, msg would move to a pier or something but I don’t think there’s money for that kind of endeavor.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BK1985

At this point, I’d be happy with a reskin and upzoning of the msg site since I highly doubt that they are going anywhere. In a perfect world, msg would move to a pier or something but I don’t think there’s money for that kind of endeavor.

They’re not gonna move away from all of that mass transit. The City wouldn’t want that either. The solution is a new arena in place, which could support more development above.

[NYguy]

Clearer view of the presentation from the last hearing...


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