As pandemic wanes, subway cars remain half-empty

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Are people really seeing this?

I've ridden the trains for 20 years in NYC, at all hours, everywhere in the city, and on systems all over the world, and never heard of anyone "squirting blood" or "defecating right in front of you". Again, sounds like alt-right garbage. Happened once somewhere and probably ran on Fox News and NY Post for a month.

And, in any case, there's no evidence that pooping and blood-squirting bums are driving U.S. transit ridership trends. If you look at the quarterly data, and examine the losses and gains, it's clear ridership is predicated on local changes to commuting patterns.

They are seeing it so often that there was a Reddit thread started so that the good people could report in real time what they were witnessing and to help others try to avoid situations that will jeopardize their personal wellbeing.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

They are seeing it so often that there was a Reddit thread started so that the good people could report in real time what they were witnessing and to help others try to avoid situations that will jeopardize their personal wellbeing.

Ya but they are all alt right conspiracy theorists though. None of this is happening...

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Is not the reason but it's a reason. The main reason is obviously wfh but crime and the increased presence of crazy crack heads on trains isn't helping

They should address it, sure, but I don't think that's the factor determining ridership. If tomorrow people had to commute like they did pre-pandemic then you'd see transit ridership numbers immediately bounce back to pre-pandemic levels. That's the bottom line. OTOH, transit systems could be free of anti-social behavior right now and ridership numbers would be exactly the same.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by twister244

Wrong again (see Chris LA's) post.......

Unless you want to post some quantitative evidence to back up your claims, then I don't see the point in all of us continuing to go in circles with you on this topic. We've posted ample evidence to backup the claim of:

Nope, no one else has posted evidence.

I'm citing actual APTA ridership data, which show U.S. transit ridership trends exactly mirror commuting trends. The rest are citing claimed anecdote and alt-right garbage, a narrative that police-hating liberals are letting bums poop and toss blood, which is the cause of pandemic-era ridership declines. It's dumb.

Originally Posted by twister244

While ridership is coming back, it's still below pre-pandemic levels. A chunk of this is being driven by WFH dynamics, but crime is also a factor impacting people's decision. This is a trend that is occurring across most major American cities.

Again, there's zero evidence for this claim. None. There is no concrete evidence that "crime is also a factor impacting people's decision". In fact the premise is untrue, as crime has generally been dropping on most systems.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Ya but they are all alt right conspiracy theorists though. None of this is happening...

Good point. There is a conspiracy going on here and the people who have been using rail for years suddenly turned and joined an anti-urban conglomerate to give Fox News something to talk about. They also don't mind the added expenses of paying for parking/Uber to help further the agenda.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Good point. There is a conspiracy going on here and the people who have been using rail for years suddenly turned and joined an anti-urban conglomerate to give Fox News something to talk about. They also don't mind the added expenses of paying for parking/Uber to help further the agenda.

More or less, yeah. The same people that claim that cities burned down in 2020 due to liberals not wanting people to be murdered by police. Millions of angry, delusional folks.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Crawford

More or less, yeah. The same people that claim that cities burned down in 2020 due to liberals not wanting people to be murdered by police. Millions of angry, delusional folks.

Riiiight, because the people living along the MFL line here and using it to commute to their jobs are known for their alt-right views

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Riiiight, because the people living along the MFL line here and using it to commute to their jobs are known for their alt-right views

Probably, yeah. I don't know everyone here personally, but the people who are making the claims on this thread have voiced many other alt-right lies on SSP. I remember their claims in the summer of 2020. I remember their claims re. the pandemic and Trump. They claimed liberals were burning down American cities. They claimed the Dems were the party of crime. They claimed cities were doomed. They claimed that Covid guidelines were dumb. All parroting Trumpian nonsense, all wrong.

There are millions of Americans who believe this crap, even very highly educated and successful and smart people like Musk. Many even loathe Trump and Trumpism but still generally believe this crap.

[pip]

Don't really know too much about Boston and pre pandemic on the Subways except it was always good in terms of riders. Been back 6 months now and thankfully Boston has avoided this crap on it's subway system. Boston may be the most crap free people of a major city in the country.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Nope, no one else has posted evidence.

I'm citing actual APTA ridership data, which show U.S. transit ridership trends exactly mirror commuting trends. The rest are citing claimed anecdote and alt-right garbage, a narrative that police-hating liberals are letting bums poop and toss blood, which is the cause of pandemic-era ridership declines. It's dumb.


Again, there's zero evidence for this claim. None. There is no concrete evidence that "crime is also a factor impacting people's decision". In fact the premise is untrue, as crime has generally been dropping on most systems.

Are you trolling this thread? We have posted articles, statistics, and personal accounts of how crime has impacted our decisions with respect to public transit. You continue to make claims not grounded in reality at all.

- Crime is higher than it was pre-pandemic (I sourced this)
- It's impacting people's decision to take transit (see posts from MULTIPLE people on this thread)
- We don't know the exact quantifiable impact it's having compared to WFH, but it's a factor.

If you want to continue to deny this basic reality, then I can only assume you are so driven by ideological thinking you can't acknowledge when you are wrong about something, or you are trolling me.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by pip

Don't really know too much about Boston and pre pandemic on the Subways except it was always good in terms of riders. Been back 6 months now and thankfully Boston has avoided this crap on it's subway system. Boston may be the most crap free people of a major city in the country.

Well it was sort of roudy when I rode took the train in Boston. My first visit it was a bunch of drunken sports fans having a party on the train.(lol)

My second visit, my wife and I was on the train on a Saturday early evening and we encountered a sardine pack train of spoiled college kids drunk and roudy. The only difference is the people I experienced being a bit roudy in LA was in poor neighborhoods, and the ones in Boston were definitely more well to do college kids that activities were very similar, the smell of marijuana, loud, and a bit roudy. I know some people will view it differently when the groups are poor and perhaps people of color, than those who are middle or upper class Caucasian with similar behavior. I personally view it the same, roudy and disrespectful to others around you makes it an unpleasant journey.

[llamaorama]

I wonder what transit agencies could do long term to lower operational costs without having to sacrifice frequency or things like security and cleanliness? Maybe run shorter trains? Or put in false walls to get rid of unnecessary mezzanine levels and reduce platform lengths? Those things could be restored in the future on an as needed basis.

If they react by running at lower frequencies or cut service or let the customer experience get trashy it will create a doom loop that further depresses ridership and it's crucial to avoid that.

What is going on with the Baltimore Subway? It's daily ridership went from 36,000 a day (and that was an extreme under-utilization of the infrastructure, which was designed for huge crowds) to 3,900 a day. That's even worse that the Cleveland Red Line. Is it due to pandemic declines or did the Baltimore transit agency cancel service due to there being too few train or bus drivers or something?

[pip]

Originally Posted by ChrisLA

Well it was sort of roudy when I rode took the train in Boston. My first visit it was a bunch of drunken sports fans having a party on the train.(lol)

My second visit, my wife and I was on the train on a Saturday early evening and we encountered a sardine pack train of spoiled college kids drunk and roudy. The only difference is the people I experienced being a bit roudy in LA was in poor neighborhoods, and the ones in Boston were definitely more well to do college kids that activities were very similar, the smell of marijuana, loud, and a bit roudy. I know some people will view it differently when the groups are poor and perhaps people of color, than those who are middle or upper class Caucasian with similar behavior. I personally view it the same, roudy and disrespectful to others around you makes it an unpleasant journey.

It still remains that crime and crap on Boston's trains is minimal and in the city in general.

[jmecklenborg]

The Wall Street Journal did a feature today on this issue:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/subway-...=hp_lead_pos10

Not much in here that hasn't been discussed already.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The Wall Street Journal did a feature today on this issue:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/subway-...=hp_lead_pos10

Not much in here that hasn't been discussed already.

Alt-right conspiracy And gee look at that Chicago and Philly are mentioned, I bet it's as if we who use the systems know what we are talking about.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Crawford

They claimed liberals were burning down American cities.

That's true, following the George Floyd murder billions of dollars damage was caused, how do you not know this?

Originally Posted by Crawford

They claimed the Dems were the party of crime.

Also true, the Republicans are much more law and order than the Dumbocrats. Again, how do you not know this?

Originally Posted by Crawford

They claimed cities were doomed.

I wouldn't say they're "doomed" but the lion's share if not all of the rioting, occurred in large American cities

Originally Posted by Crawford

They claimed that Covid guidelines were dumb.

If guidelines were all we were given no one would have objected but instead we were given mandates which are entirely different

Which planet have you been on for the past couple of years?

[mrnyc]

^ continual support of seditious insurrection is really a fine and ongoing example of repubs following law and order.

more like following putin.

also, i saw poop on the subway yesterday.

[mrnyc]

dubz

[Steely Dan]

Take it to the toilet, clowns.