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  #15321  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:05 PM
DesertRay DesertRay is offline
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BTW, the article states that there were disclosures--a meeting, hearings, and a sign (the neighbor said that it was on 15th and Maryland--that's a corner of the lot). Maybe there wasn't as much as they like, but it wasn't a secret.
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  #15322  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRay View Post
BTW, the article states that there were disclosures--a meeting, hearings, and a sign (the neighbor said that it was on 15th and Maryland--that's a corner of the lot). Maybe there wasn't as much as they like, but it wasn't a secret.
I suspect as you suggested, this is more an aversion to 2 floor homes in a single story neighborhood than wanting to save the pine trees. In all reality, the homes will contribute less to urban heating than a vacant blacktop parking lot. However, I can't tell if there will be room for vegetation in front of the proposed homes, so not sure where the developer would plant equivalent trees as required by city code. I'm guessing around the remaining lawn of the church?
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  #15323  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:31 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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I'm against it because of the aleppo pines, I could care less about two story homes. I'm not the neighbors so I don't really have a say, but I honestly think the trees are very important to people.
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  #15324  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:35 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Not sure if anyone caught this, but a fight appears to be brewing over the redevelopment of the parking lot of the Shepard of the Valley Lutheran church and it's trees off 15th Ave and Maryland. The current plan is to build 34 two-story single family homes in a gated lot. The church did not inform or disclose the plans to the are residents and will be removing the 50 year old pines and a few of the buildings.

Read more at: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...unity-11356975

Also, Talton has his take on it even though think most of his articles are mostly too opinionated: https://www.roguecolumnist.com/rogue...hade.html#more
I suspect that two-story houses would provide enough shade to offset the removal of mature trees. The bigger impact of losing mature trees is more in terms of their absorption of carbon dioxide. I'm surprised Talton ignored that argument.

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BTW, the article states that there were disclosures--a meeting, hearings, and a sign (the neighbor said that it was on 15th and Maryland--that's a corner of the lot). Maybe there wasn't as much as they like, but it wasn't a secret.
First law of NIMBYism: Claim no one ever told me, even if they did tell me several times, several ways.

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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I suspect as you suggested, this is more an aversion to 2 floor homes in a single story neighborhood than wanting to save the pine trees. In all reality, the homes will contribute less to urban heating than a vacant blacktop parking lot. However, I can't tell if there will be room for vegetation in front of the proposed homes, so not sure where the developer would plant equivalent trees as required by city code. I'm guessing around the remaining lawn of the church?
I'm not crazy about the loss of mature trees, but the aversion to any height at all is the epitome of NIMBYism. My biggest complaint about the project is the plan to make it gated, which will diminish walking and bicycling routes through the neighborhood. With bike lanes on both Maryland and 15th avenues, as well as two light rail stations nearby, the street grid should be as uninterrupted as possible.
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  #15325  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:38 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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I dont think its the two stories, 2 residential floors arent significantly taller than 1
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  #15326  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:39 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I dont think its the two stories, 2 residential floors arent significantly taller than 1
In reality, no. In the NIMBY mind, a two-story house might as well be the Burj Khalifa.
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  #15327  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:39 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I suspect that two-story houses would provide enough shade to offset the removal of mature trees. The bigger impact of losing mature trees is more in terms of their absorption of carbon dioxide.
Do you have any idea how little of an impact a dozen pine trees would make to Carbon Dioxide absorption.

That's ridiculous.

The Rouge columnist article is forgetting that there was a very serious push to remove trees and use desert landscaping and there still is by people who want low maintenance yards and the false myth that we have water scarcity issues.

I even remember hearing someone in Tempe 10 years ago talking about removing the Trees on Mill to save money on water. Not to mention the whole thing is a lamentation of suburbia and there is nothing anyone can do or have done about how things went. By the time he was a kid in the 1950's and 1960's sprawl was already in full swing for well over a decade. Id argue the gentrification of Arcadia, Camelback East downtown and Uptown AND midtown you will see trees come back.

And a final edit, these sort of articles about "oh how wonderful life was when I was a boy" annoy the hell out of me. First of all its rose colored glasses, all people look back on the days of their youth as innocent and perfect its how people remember things. And even if this isnt a case of childhood nostalgia and is true the writer of this piece is basically saying "me and people of my age group had a great society and way of life and somehow let it go to total shit over my lifetime"

Good job I guess? What a an indictment of your entire generation.

Last edited by Obadno; Sep 17, 2019 at 4:14 PM.
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  #15328  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:43 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Do you have any idea how little of an impact a dozen pine trees would make to Carbon Dioxide absorption.
It's more a matter of setting a precedent. Whether the feared impact is loss of shade or less absorption of carbon dioxide, every time it's easy to remove one tree, it becomes easier to remove another, and so on. I'm not necessarily saying this project should be blocked over the loss of trees. I just find it interesting that Talton based his argument entirely on shade.
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  #15329  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:46 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
I'm against it because of the aleppo pines, I could care less about two story homes. I'm not the neighbors so I don't really have a say, but I honestly think the trees are very important to people.
Yea, I don't like losing mature trees anywhere. However, I suspect that if even the trees were salvageable and planted elsewhere on the property, the neighborhood would pick apart something else...probably the height.

Also. as exit2lef pointed out, the development being gated does create a negative walk-ability experience for the area for many reasons. I would say that's a more valid argument there even more than the tree removal.
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  #15330  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:46 PM
DesertRay DesertRay is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I suspect that two-story houses would provide enough shade to offset the removal of mature trees. The bigger impact of losing mature trees is more in terms of their absorption of carbon dioxide. I'm surprised Talton ignored that argument.

I'm not crazy about the loss of mature trees, but the aversion to any height at all is the epitome of NIMBYism. My biggest complaint about the project is the plan to make it gated, which will diminish walking and bicycling routes through the neighborhood. With bike lanes on both Maryland and 15th avenues, as well as two light rail stations nearby, the street grid should be as uninterrupted as possible.
I'm actually pretty sad about losing mature trees as well. I'm hoping that the new plantings eventually replenish that capacity. Those old trees banked a lot of carbon (and I'm also hoping they use that wood to make some cool stuff, but they probably won't). As far as "gated," the plans look like there are two gates that won't interrupt the grid. The sense of security those gates supposedly will give is pretty hilarious. Butts out to the community (which is, I suspect, the real cause of the consternation).
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  #15331  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 4:57 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Do you have any idea how little of an impact a dozen pine trees would make to Carbon Dioxide absorption.

That's ridiculous.
You're consistently pretty abrasive and condescending when you disagree with someone, has anyone ever told you that?
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  #15332  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 5:27 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
You're consistently pretty abrasive and condescending when you disagree with someone, has anyone ever told you that?
Funny coming from Biggus. 😉

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
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  #15333  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 5:29 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Poking the bear are you?
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  #15334  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 5:42 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is online now
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Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Funny coming from Biggus. 😉

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂


I don't like when people are rude and if someone says something rude to me (as two members here have continually done) I'll let you know your standing. I would do the same if someone said something rude to me in person, I'm too old to deal with that stuff.

That kind of stuff is why I read this forum for the better part of 2 years without joining. You can disagree with someone without talking to them like they are stupid. Rude behavior seems rampant on discussion boards in general but especially this one.

Here's a good read: https://science.howstuffworks.com/li...n-internet.htm
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  #15335  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 7:35 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Not sure if anyone caught this, but a fight appears to be brewing over the redevelopment of the parking lot of the Shepard of the Valley Lutheran church and it's trees off 15th Ave and Maryland. The current plan is to build 34 two-story single family homes in a gated lot. The church did not inform or disclose the plans to the are residents and will be removing the 50 year old pines and a few of the buildings.

Read more at: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...unity-11356975

Also, Talton has his take on it even though think most of his articles are mostly too opinionated: https://www.roguecolumnist.com/rogue...hade.html#more
Talton...lol. Most of his articles have the same tone. Back in the day/most people don't remember...dude seriously lives in the past.
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  #15336  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 9:10 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
You're consistently pretty abrasive and condescending when you disagree with someone, has anyone ever told you that?
And?
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  #15337  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 9:27 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Break it up already.
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  #15338  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 9:29 PM
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pbenjamin pbenjamin is offline
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I lost interest after "false myth that we have water scarcity issues".
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  #15339  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 10:21 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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I lost interest after "false myth that we have water scarcity issues".
But we dont.
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  #15340  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 1:48 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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Ladies! Please!
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