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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 7:22 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Dunno. If you earn a decent living you're probably not insane or on hard drugs, and therefore not likely to pee in elevators.
Yeah, I'm not a sociologist, but I'd be shocked if there wasn't a correlation between lower income levels and higher levels of social dysfunction, at least at the neighborhood level.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2023, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
There are also private developments that were designed that way. Look at those co-ops in LES or Coney Island for example. Even today, a lot of people mistake those buildings for projects. The tower-in-the-park/commieblock/le corbusier concept was more of a feature of the architectural norms of the time, rather than government housing specific. In fact, a lot of the times when you see people talk about these classic massive NYC projects they show footage/pictures/b-roll of Co-Op City, Bronx, which is a private development that looks like an epic NYCHA projects concentration of towers.
Correct. Park La Brea in Los Angeles is another example of a large, private towers-in-the-park development:



San Francisco has Park Merced, a slightly smaller version of Park La Brea. Neither of these developments are public housing, nor do locals mistake them for such.

Quote:
Like I said before, there are plenty of lowrise government housing developments in other cities (LA, Orlando, etc.) and those neighborhoods are just as bad.
The old-fashioned public housing projects in Los Angeles are usually low-rise, but often just as bleak as the similarly old projects elsewhere in the country:

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  #23  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 11:44 PM
Encolpius Encolpius is offline
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Since people are posting photos of 'bleak' housing projects in US cities, and generally ragging on modernism and Corbusian towers in the park, I think it's worth saying that here in London, modernism and brutalism produced some fantastic public housing and some of the best British architecture of the twentieth century. There are plenty of awful council estates... the majority of them are awful, frankly. But there are some pretty nice ones, and you'd have to pay a lot of money to live in some of these today.

Alton West:


Trellick Tower


Brownfield Estate


Bevin Court


Dawson Heights


Andover Estate


The Brunswick Centre


Whittington Estate


World's End Estate


Lillington Gardens


Fleet Road Estate


Alexandra Road Estate


Keeling House


Thamesmead


Thamesmead


Broadwater Farm


Not exactly a council estate, but close enough to merit honorable mention:

The Barbican
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  #24  
Old Posted May 6, 2023, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
San Francisco has Park Merced, a slightly smaller version of Park La Brea. Neither of these developments are public housing, nor do locals mistake them for such.
My ex lived there and it seemed so out of place compared to the rest of the city.

https://www.parkmerced.com/studentliving
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  #25  
Old Posted May 6, 2023, 5:18 PM
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London certainly has its share of hideous brutalism and towers in the park.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 6, 2023, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post

Alexandra Road Estate

That one is actually pretty cool, and it reminds me of a star trek TNG episode.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 6, 2023 at 9:02 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 6, 2023, 8:37 PM
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The UK, more than any other country, went crazy for brutalism. Here and there it's ok, but in large batches, it's pretty terrible, especially in the smaller provincial cities. Gives me dystopian Clockwork Orange vibes.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2023, 9:03 PM
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Speaking of housing projects, i have always been fascinated by their design although i could see what people generally dislike.

I gotta say however that i think they fit in well in a city like New York. The tower-in-the-park design are kinda substitutes for parks. I love walking in to the projects (the safe ones) when im tired if the hectic streets
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2023, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post
Correct. Park La Brea in Los Angeles is another example of a large, private towers-in-the-park development:



San Francisco has Park Merced, a slightly smaller version of Park La Brea. Neither of these developments are public housing, nor do locals mistake them for such.


The old-fashioned public housing projects in Los Angeles are usually low-rise, but often just as bleak as the similarly old projects elsewhere in the country:

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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2023, 10:18 PM
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[QUOTE=craigs;9929211]Correct. Park La Brea in Los Angeles is another example of a large, private towers-in-the-park development:


I'd happily live at Park LaBrea. The units are quite large and comfortable. Great views. Great location. Excellent parking. Tons of amenities. It's not at all unpleasant down at street level. The little 2 story town house units around the periphery of the development are also quite nice.

Hmmm. Upon reading some recent reviews, I might have changed my mind about Park LaBrea. Sounds like the current dysfunction of LA has made the Tower in the Park model a bit problematic. Parking and car break-ins, especially, sound like a nightmare. https://www.yelp.com/biz/park-la-bre...eles-3#reviews

I think back in the day, Metropolitan Life Insurance ran a tighter ship. Metropolitan Life developed and operated several similar complexes, mostly in the immediate post WW2 period. Metropolitan Life Insurance constructed a sister complex, Park Merced in San Francisco, which features a similar street layout to Park La Brea. At the same time, they built Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village in Manhattan, Parkchester in The Bronx, and Parkfairfax in Alexandria, Virginia just outside Washington, D.C.

Last edited by austlar1; Jul 30, 2023 at 10:35 PM.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2023, 1:34 AM
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Most of that London stuff looks horrible.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2023, 3:31 AM
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Exurban density and poor design (which is most of the U.S.) is the real killer. Big strain on the system and a ton of land used. All of this sprawl and the maintenance of it, the traffic... all comes at a real long term cost.

Although in a fantasy universe, would get great if in the case of the U.S, we did a sort of Right to Housing Bill that guarantees a place to live for everyone.

The government really should be investing in building units for the masses. I know public housing is treasonous to even talk about here but people need places to live (and affordability). If anything, we need more public housing in our cities. With the right design, they don't have to be commie blocks or the typical housing project look from the 50's and 60's.

Every citizen should be guaranteed a roof over their head. Even if its a microunit, there should be no homeless. In an ideal world, especially considering the "wealth" of the host country.

I find it so asinine that this country has a housing crisis. Its all self induced folks! Shooting ourselves in the foot, and continuing to shoot the foot without realizing that one shouldn't do that.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2023, 6:29 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Thats really a hard question to answer it depends on how its designed.

I think a lot of Asian apartment blocks in China and Japan are horrendous, but they are extremely dense.

I guess it comes down to how its integrated into the neighborhood and if the infrastructure can support it.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 9:48 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Exurban density and poor design (which is most of the U.S.) is the real killer. Big strain on the system and a ton of land used. All of this sprawl and the maintenance of it, the traffic... all comes at a real long term cost.

Although in a fantasy universe, would get great if in the case of the U.S, we did a sort of Right to Housing Bill that guarantees a place to live for everyone.

The government really should be investing in building units for the masses. I know public housing is treasonous to even talk about here but people need places to live (and affordability). If anything, we need more public housing in our cities. With the right design, they don't have to be commie blocks or the typical housing project look from the 50's and 60's.

Every citizen should be guaranteed a roof over their head. Even if its a microunit, there should be no homeless. In an ideal world, especially considering the "wealth" of the host country.

I find it so asinine that this country has a housing crisis. Its all self induced folks! Shooting ourselves in the foot, and continuing to shoot the foot without realizing that one shouldn't do that.
Majority of the homeless on the streets wouldn't be able to live in an apartment by themselves with no supervision. The people who would be able are not long term chronically homeless anyway. They either need homeless shelter that have staff and police on hand inside the buildings, or insane asylums/hospitals.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 10:01 PM
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The truth is in the middle. The homeless includes:
--Some just struggling to pay rent.
--Some addicts, mentally ill, parolees, etc., who can hang onto apartments if they're cheap.
--Many hard-core addicts and mentally ill who need to be committed.

In expensive cities we get a substantial number of the first group.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
The truth is in the middle. The homeless includes:
--Some just struggling to pay rent.
--Some addicts, mentally ill, parolees, etc., who can hang onto apartments if they're cheap.
--Many hard-core addicts and mentally ill who need to be committed.

In expensive cities we get a substantial number of the first group.
I saw a report, not sure where since it's been a while, but a lot of them end up staying in the area they are familiar with post-eviction. It snuffs the old claim that cities providing services to homeless make them homeless destinations...
There's your last point as well as the most populous states/cities have higher numbers of homeless, and are more expensive. Who woulda thunk?
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 6:15 PM
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I should've said expensive cities get a lot of the first TWO of those groups. Some of the addict/mental crowd is functional enough to have housing if the city is cheap enough.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 6:20 PM
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I should've said expensive cities get a lot of the first TWO of those groups. Some of the addict/mental crowd is functional enough to have housing if the city is cheap enough.
That's one reason why we don't really have a homeless problem up here (besides low population); because they can actually afford a rundown trailer. It seems they can sell enough meth or steal enough, and resell to make ends meet.
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