15-minute neighbourhoods

[OTSkyline]

Instead of focusing on creating new 15-min neighborhoods from scratch, we need to densify the ones already existing. Low-hanging fruit.

Think of places like Lincoln Fields, Carlingwood, College Square, Baseline/Merivale in the west. Those are all central retail points with a bunch of services (including grocery stores) and are relatively well-served by transit. But outside of a few projects here and there, those places are currently surrounded by SFH neighbourhoods.

We should be trying to maximize the density around these existing nodes. Dozens of new condo towers, rental towers as well as dense midrises.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Westboro is certainly dependent on drivers, note the large surface lot beside the superstore, LCBO, and MEC as well as the free parking at Farm Boy (and all the streets).

Glebe is harder to tell. Certainly Landsdowne and the specialty stores are car dependent. The fact that Mckeen validates parking is probably a clue though as to its car dependence.

Yes I don't know why we don't trust the businesses themselves to know their customers. It's not always a majority but almost always a significant portion of $ spent comes from people who drive. Even who live a block or two away stop on their way home. I've done it myself and actually not stopped when I couldn't get a spot in front and I barely drive at all.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Instead of focusing on creating new 15-min neighborhoods from scratch, we need to densify the ones already existing. Low-hanging fruit.

Think of places like Lincoln Fields, Carlingwood, College Square, Baseline/Merivale in the west. Those are all central retail points with a bunch of services (including grocery stores) and are relatively well-served by transit. But outside of a few projects here and there, those places are currently surrounded by SFH neighbourhoods.

We should be trying to maximize the density around these existing nodes. Dozens of new condo towers, rental towers as well as dense midrises.

And this is exactly what's happening right now, at malls like Lincoln Fields, Westgate, Elmvale, and Gloucester Centre, so it's a start.

But it doesn't compare to what's going on in Vancouver and the GTA... that's on a whole other level:

Canada sees the rise of mall cities

Sheila Reid, The Globe and Mail
Published June 2, 2023 | Updated Yesterday

Traditional shopping centres are finding new life as mall cities: dense, amenity-rich hamlets that promise to transform spaces with too much retail, redundant parking and inefficient layouts.

The concept is already driving the redevelopment of Vancouver’s Oakridge Centre, a popular 1950s-era mall that is being rebuilt as Oakridge Park, a veritable town centre that will include more than 3,000 homes, retail and amenities such as a community centre and library over 11 hectares of land.

Some of Canada’s top performing malls, including Square One in Mississauga, the Richmond Centre in B.C., and Fairview Mall and Bayview Village in Toronto, are also slated for multibillion dollar mixed-used redevelopments.

At a recent panel at the Urban Land Institute conference, representatives from QuadReal Property Group, Oxford Properties, Cadillac Fairview and Almadev revealed master plans for some of those developments.

“The world has moved toward mixed-used over the last 15-20 years,” said Rob Spanier, president of Spanier Group and the panel’s moderator. He said retail that doesn’t evolve to meet the new ways that people shop will become irrelevant.

“I don’t believe that residential fixes bad retail – it enhances great locations,” said Andy Clydesdale, executive vice-president of Global Retail at QuadReal Property, one of the owners of Vancouver’s Oakridge Centre, which for decades had been among the country’s highest-earning shopping centres.

The planned project at Square One in Mississauga by Oxford Properties will be the largest mixed-use development in Canada, the first phase of which is expected to open in 2024. The development will include 18-million square feet of commercial and residential space across more than 50 hectares. It will include 18,000 new residential units around existing and new retail space and will connect to the Hurontario LRT line.

Entering the residential market is a marked pivot for commercial real estate investment firms as they respond to the impact of e-commerce on bricks and mortar retailers as well as a growing demand for housing. Mr. Clydesdale said it’s also a response to the needs of prospective homebuyers.

“It’s less about e-commerce than it is about how people want to live and what they want to experience,” Mr. Clydesdale said. “People want to connect, they want to be social, so we’re trying to give them more reasons and more opportunities to do that.”

In Vancouver, QuadReal is working with developer Westbank Corp on the reinvented Oakridge Park project, which will also include 800,000 square feet of workspace and 900,000 square feet of luxury retail and food.

QuadReal will pay for and maintain a four hectare public park, made up of six smaller parks, that will be owned by the City of Vancouver. An artist’s rendering created by the developer shows the green space scattered across rooftops with a one-kilometre running track that snakes around the grounds.

Rafael Lazer, CEO of Almadev, said space constraints in cities such as Toronto encourage the need to think vertically. His company is redeveloping the Galleria Mall at the corner of Dupont and Dufferin streets, a site that Mr. Lazer described as being “run-down” even when it was brand new.

Yet, most of the shopping centres being targeted for redevelopment are a far cry from the image of a run-down, dead mall, with abandoned storefronts and ghostly parking lots. For the most part, the locations for these new mall cities aren’t dead at all, but rather in affluent – and aging – neighbourhoods where residents may be primed for a downsize.

QuadReal has other high-end redevelopments in the works in Toronto at Bayview Village in North York and Cloverdale Mall in Etobicoke that aim to combine luxury shopping with fine dining and entertainment.

While mall cities are being cast as a response to a housing shortage, Dr. Penelope Gurstein, a professor emeritus at the University of British Columbia whose work has focused on community planning, is skeptical they will do much to solve the crisis.

Prof. Gurstein likened high-end mall city projects to “resort communities” that are unlikely to solve housing supply issues for young people or middle- to low-income earners.

“It’s probably a more effective use of land and an opportunity to create more housing supply and density,” says Dr. Gurstein, “but the pattern of the developer is to market offshore.”

Dr. Gurstein is referring to the tactic of marketing units to wealthy, offshore buyers who often leave units empty the majority of the year.

Governments across the country have responded to the impact of offshore buyers on the housing market with restrictions and taxes that target non-Canadian investors. A federal ban on foreign homebuyers took effect earlier this year, while B.C. has imposed a tax on foreign buyers since 2016. Several cities, including Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa, tax vacant homes.

Cities have used the rezoning process to demand public amenities from developers, including some affordable housing. The Oarkridge Park development, for example, will include hundreds of units of social housing and below-market rentals.

The project will also include a community centre, daycare, senior centre and an expanded public library, which will be paid for by $146-million in community amenity contributions and an additional $75-million in development cost levies.

“It’s something we have to do if we want to become a cultural hub,” Mr. Clydesdale says of the public amenities. “We’re really creating a second downtown in Vancouver with Oakridge.”

Mr. Clydesdale said the estimated $6.5-billion project

Cadillac Fairview has already broken ground on a $2-billion project at the Richmond Centre in B.C. and has proposed projects on several other sites across the country. Josh Thomson, a senior vice-president of development at the company, said the biggest challenge with these developments is that they are such a new concept.

“There’s not a lot of great examples in North America of a shopping centre adding this much density on site,” Mr. Thomson says. The uncertainty of something so new can sometimes give municipalities pause.

“Ten years ago, I was expanding malls, 20 years ago I was building malls, five years ago we were talking about demolishing malls,” Mr. Thomson says. “You can’t predict the future.”

The transformation of malls into mixed-use communities has also changed the nature of the anchor tenant from a department store into daily necessities such as supermarkets or pharmacies.

Older lease agreements held by large anchors may give them an upper hand when it comes to renegotiating the terms of those leases in the event of a redevelopment. When QuadReal sought to transform the 11-hectare Oakridge Centre, they first had to go through their anchor tenant, Hudson’s Bay.

In October, 2018, HBC released a statement saying the company would receive a total $172.5-million in exchange for “certain concessions.” HBC agreed to relocate within the new development while still paying similar rent to their previous agreement – which for most anchor tenants is generally lower than average.

Tim Sanderon, an executive vice-president at JLL, said in an interview those terms oftentimes include minimum parking requirements in addition to a guarantee of visibility from the street or highway known as vista corridors.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...f-mall-cities/

[lrt's friend]

I live in a neighbourhood dominated by SFHs and townhouses and there are 2 grocery stores and multiple restaurants within 15 minute walking radius. It is possible to create 15 minute communities in pretty well any urban and suburban neighbourhood with proper design except exurbs based on. acre lots.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

And this is exactly what's happening right now, at malls like Lincoln Fields, Westgate, Elmvale, and Gloucester Centre, so it's a start.

But it doesn't compare to what's going on in Vancouver and the GTA... that's on a whole other level:

I don't understand why Ottawa is so slow at this. We have similar housing challenges as these other cities. We probably have the third highest rents of any metro area in the country. Why are these developers putting so much effort in Van and TO, but not Ottawa? It's not like the proposals are anywhere near as ambitious.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I live in a neighbourhood dominated by SFHs and townhouses and there are 2 grocery stores and multiple restaurants within 15 minute walking radius. It is possible to create 15 minute communities in pretty well any urban and suburban neighbourhood with proper design except exurbs based on. acre lots.

If not mistaken you live in our near blossom park

So speaking of power centres & parking lots, that's what most the commercial your referring to is and there is almost no commerical East of bank and south of the rail yard....nvm that bank and hunt club are major commuter routes....

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

If not mistaken you live in our near blossom park

So speaking of power centres & parking lots, that's what most the commercial your referring to is and there is almost no commerical East of bank and south of the rail yard....nvm that bank and hunt club are major commuter routes....

South Keys is the 'power centre' that you are referring to. Most of the other shopping areas are more local in nature and within walking distance of thousands of residents. Blossom Park Shopping Centre is currently being diversified and includes Farm Boy, Giant Tiger, a drug store, restaurants and other amenities. Whether there are parking lots or not, it is still within walking distance. In other words, the bones are there to make it work. The other issues such as limited access east of Bank especially in Hunt Club can be addressed by locating a few additional amenities closer to residents. It should be possible.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Businesses in the 15 minute neighbourhoods in Ottawa are heavily dependent on customers from outside the 15 minute area driving in. I don't think there are any self-supporting 15 minute neighbourhoods in Ottawa.

I think you are mixing up the existence of 15-minute neighbourhoods with people’s stubborn driving habits. I can say that I get all my basic needs within 1.5 km from my house, and I’ve made a conscious effort to access these by walking or cycling, to the point that I got rid of my car four years ago. I can’t say the same for some of my neighbours who I see driving to the Superstore 900 metres away. The Superstore has always been oversized for the neighbourhood, but Westboro Village could definitely easily support a couple of medium-sized supermarkets like the existing Farm Boy and Metro. And while there are lots of specialty stores in the area that attract people from outside the neighbourhood, the main street receipts are likely commensurate with the spending power of the local residents. You can’t expect them to eat at the same restaurants and buy clothes from the same shops all the time.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think you are mixing up the existence of 15-minute neighbourhoods with people’s stubborn driving habits. I can say that I get all my basic needs within 1.5 km from my house, and I’ve made a conscious effort to access these by walking or cycling, to the point that I got rid of my car four years ago. I can’t say the same for some of my neighbours who I see driving to the Superstore 900 metres away. The Superstore has always been oversized for the neighbourhood, but Westboro Village could definitely easily support a couple of medium-sized supermarkets like the existing Farm Boy and Metro. And while there are lots of specialty stores in the area that attract people from outside the neighbourhood, the main street receipts are likely commensurate with the spending power of the local residents. You can’t expect them to eat at the same restaurants and buy clothes from the same shops all the time.

The Metro and Farm Boy both have free parking and are supported by free parking on all of the neighbourhood streets. In both cases the free parking has high opportunity costs, so they must see considerable value in this parking for their business models.

It is possible that "lazy driving habits" are a factor, but the hypothesis that big box stores could be replaced with 15 minute neighbourhoods comes in the context of these lazy driving habits.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The Metro and Farm Boy both have free parking and are supported by free parking on all of the neighbourhood streets. In both cases the free parking has high opportunity costs, so they must see considerable value in this parking for their business models.

It is possible that "lazy driving habits" are a factor, but the hypothesis that big box stores could be replaced with 15 minute neighbourhoods comes in the context of these lazy driving habits.

Much of the free parking lots you see were mandated by zoning when these places were built in prior decades, which promoted lazy driving habits. We are starting to see the reversal of that policy, especially the “cash in lieu of parking’ that the city used to enforce on Main Street developments without parking

The key to 15 minute neighbourhoods, much like active transportation in general is not necessarily to force the lifestyle on everyone, but to make it feasible and more convenient for those who want to live more sustainably.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Much of the free parking lots you see were mandated by zoning when these places were built in prior decades, which promoted lazy driving habits. We are starting to see the reversal of that policy, especially the “cash in lieu of parking’ that the city used to enforce on Main Street developments without parking

The key to 15 minute neighbourhoods, much like active transportation in general is not necessarily to force the lifestyle on everyone, but to make it feasible and more convenient for those who want to live more sustainably.

Agreed. We cannot expect an immediate transition, but we can work towards making it possible to satisfy more of our needs without a car. This is the point of setting up 15 minute neighbourhoods.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Much of the free parking lots you see were mandated by zoning when these places were built in prior decades, which promoted lazy driving habits. We are starting to see the reversal of that policy, especially the “cash in lieu of parking’ that the city used to enforce on Main Street developments without parking

The Farm Boy is in a nearly brand new building, the validated parking is underground. That is a very high cost for the store to carry.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The key to 15 minute neighbourhoods, much like active transportation in general is not necessarily to force the lifestyle on everyone, but to make it feasible and more convenient for those who want to live more sustainably.

That's fine, but it is not the thing that was being discussed earlier in the thread.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

South Keys is the 'power centre' that you are referring to. Most of the other shopping areas are more local in nature and within walking distance of thousands of residents. Blossom Park Shopping Centre is currently being diversified and includes Farm Boy, Giant Tiger, a drug store, restaurants and other amenities. Whether there are parking lots or not, it is still within walking distance. In other words, the bones are there to make it work. The other issues such as limited access east of Bank especially in Hunt Club can be addressed by locating a few additional amenities closer to residents. It should be possible.

The strip mall your referring to has as much sq ft of parking as it does retail....its not fed solely by locals....as your implying...and if it wasn't for the new rowhouses and etc the area would be losing pop like the east side blossom park...

In the context of it being a 15 min neighbourhood, by the cities metrics its "moderate...."

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The Farm Boy is in a nearly brand new building, the validated parking is underground. That is a very high cost for the store to carry.

You're assuming every validation is costing the store dollar for dollar. It's possible it's a wholesale concession built into the rent that the building owners gave to attract the store into occupying the space. The surface parking in front is under a Hydro ROW that cannot be built on.

Originally Posted by acottawa

That's fine, but it is not the thing that was being discussed earlier in the thread.

I raised a point that 15-minute communities already exist in the city (I live in one), and we need to direct future development into creating more of them (and it doesn't mean complete redesign of existing communities). You've moved the goalpost to "self-supporting 15 minute neighbourhoods" which don't really exist. Heck this city isn't even self-supporting Also there isn't a commandment in 15-minute communities that say "Thou shall not drive", it's more a "Thou may walk to thy daily necessities".

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The strip mall your referring to has as much sq ft of parking as it does retail....its not fed solely by locals....as your implying...and if it wasn't for the new rowhouses and etc the area would be losing pop like the east side blossom park...

In the context of it being a 15 min neighbourhood, by the cities metrics its "moderate...."

Did I ever say that? No. All I said that 'most' people in our neighbourhood are within 15 minute walking distance of shopping. Whether shopping has ample parking is not relevant initially and is a more distant goal. One of the issues here is the lack of sidewalks, which needs to be addressed before we can expect more to be willing to walk to shopping.

The east part of Blossom Park is almost surrounded by Greenbelt and is limiting factor in having enough population for closer services, but even then, most are still within 15 minute walking distance of existing shopping.

[harls]

I'm just lurking here from Vieux-Aylmer with my good friend Harley613.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes I don't know why we don't trust the businesses themselves to know their customers.

I don't trust them, because they have a long history of exaggerating the importance of drive-up customers, and denigrating the existence of anyone who doesn't live for their car, because they are biased by their own driving-centred existence, and don't actually collect any trustworthy data on the modal share of their customers.

[Davis137]

Things like this are always slow to be adopted, because as we know, everything in this country, at every level of government, has to endure "Death by Committee". Everyone is always so worried about the short-term, and wanting to protect everyone's feelings, and accommodate just about every grievance. To me, these sort of practices are what make governments get bigger and bigger (with increased operating costs as a result), and implement more and more control measures (or red tape, if you will) in their attempts to satisfy everyone involved. I know I sound very cynical, but I think more people should realize that you are never going to please everyone. It's admirable that this is attempted, but it leads to poor time and resource allocation/management, and cost overruns. All of which inevitably seems to get passed on to the taxpayers.