Winnipeg Construction X

[optimusREIM]

It's not dystopian to expect your employees to come in to the office. The employer sets the expectations. I do think though, that if an employer makes its workers work from home, they should all get raises. It's outsourcing costs to the employee to make them essentially foot the bill for the space. Whatever they're savign in terms of money for not leasing should flow back to those whose space and internet is being used.

There is obviously the convenience factor for those who do work from home, and sometimes I wish I had that ability. I just think that letting people stay home will eventually lead to incohesion in a company. The odd person might be more productive at home, the rest of the people who claim productivity gains are lying because they can drag their lazy ass out of bed 2 minutes before work starts then do nothing all day (I speak as one of those lazy ass people).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

A tale of 2 companies. I recently switched companies again, working back downtown. Except our office had a fire and is mostly closed.

If not for the fire, I'd be back in the office full time. Officially. Unofficially, work from home for 2 days per week if you want. Overall just a bit more flexibility than pre-pandemic.

Old employer out in the south Winnipeg light industrial/commercial ghettos. Work with your manager to come up with a plan, but not full time from home. While our whole group worked full time from home.

Seems most companies on the professional industry have some type of hybrid options. My new company went full on dystopian mode on employees last year. They had a work from home plan. But then felt people were abusing it, so removed any allowance for working from home. Hundreds of people quit apparently. Full time office. Most people though still do what they want.

It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle. I get that for some there will be no choice but to be on site, particularly those with jobs that require some kind of physical presence because you're interacting with the public, machinery, proprietary systems that can't be used from home (I know some accountants who fall into that category), etc. But for everyone else in professional roles it is going to be damn hard to get them to be in the office 100% of the time unless you are paying them a premium such that they can't afford to leave.

People in some careers can just cross the street and find another employer if their current one is rigidly inflexible on the WFH thing. It is unrealistic to expect that it will disappear altogether.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Biff

Heard a rumour a couple of weeks ago (reputable) of a reorganization of offices for a New office building downtown for 750 people.

Maybe this is it:

YouTube creators Dude Perfect have revealed their next play: a $100 million "trick-shot town" that will be the group's headquarters. Plans for the three-story facility include a 330-foot trick shot tower and space for restaurants and a museum. The lingering question is where it'll be built, though Texas-based Dude Perfect says they would "love" for it to be near home. The creators, who launched their YouTube channel in 2009, now have 58 million subscribers and 15 billion total views.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ permanent for now....until the world realizes that life isn't a competition to see who can never leave their house the most.

This is correct. Working for an organization from home doesn't work, even when you think it does. Something is lost by multiple person to person contacts that come from working in an office, especially in a downtown environment. Even among people who do nothing but talk on Zoom and send emails for a living, we will see innovation, productivity, and morale slide until everyone realizes it doesn't work. Maybe long commutes to one big office doesn't work either, but working from home isn't a solution.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Maybe this is it:

YouTube creators Dude Perfect have revealed their next play: a $100 million "trick-shot town" that will be the group's headquarters. Plans for the three-story facility include a 330-foot trick shot tower and space for restaurants and a museum. The lingering question is where it'll be built, though Texas-based Dude Perfect says they would "love" for it to be near home. The creators, who launched their YouTube channel in 2009, now have 58 million subscribers and 15 billion total views.

Holy smokes. My son loves those guys... I can't believe that YouTube fame can pay for something like this:

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by wardlow

This is correct. Working for an organization from home doesn't work, even when you think it does. Something is lost by multiple person to person contacts that come from working in an office, especially in a downtown environment. Even among people who do nothing but talk on Zoom and send emails for a living, we will see innovation, productivity, and morale slide until everyone realizes it doesn't work. Maybe long commutes to one big office doesn't work either, but working from home isn't a solution.

It would be interesting to know the age of people on this forum who don`t believe that work from home, or some form of it, is here to stay.

In my experience people under 35 now expect some kind of work from home option. The term "the genie is out of the bottle" has been used a few times. It is. The pandemic made many people, and organizations, realize that they don't have to be physically present in a soul sucking office to effectively do their job.

People experienced what work-life balance is/can be and are not willing to be forced back into commuting 20-30 minutes to sit in an office all day for those few moments of physical interaction that many here claim is so important. Zoom, MSTeams, Skype.....

The world and how we communicate and interact has shifted dramatically in the past ten years. To think that methods and forms of how we work wont also shift, and be expected by employees to shift, is short sighted and shows the distinct schism in how the older generation and younger generation view office work differently.

Those that don't adapt will see their talent leave for those who do.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

It's not dystopian to expect your employees to come in to the office. The employer sets the expectations. I do think though, that if an employer makes its workers work from home, they should all get raises. It's outsourcing costs to the employee to make them essentially foot the bill for the space. Whatever they're savign in terms of money for not leasing should flow back to those whose space and internet is being used. e).

This is interesting...I've read in bigger cities they actually get pay cuts because they no longer have to live in expensive real estate.

35% of Canadians live in apartments. I can't see how it can be a long term solution to work from your tiny desk in the corner.

I think employers are worried about people quitting because of the labour shortage, and that's why they are not moving quickly back...but once that levels out, there is too much lost not having your people together....it will largely return to normal, maybe with a bit more flexibility, at some point.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

shows the distinct schism in how the older generation and younger generation view office work differently.
.

as an old guy, I don't disagree with this...but I think the younger generation will see the folly of this eventually. I can't imagine who I would be as a person or as a professional had I spent most of my time working alone in an empty room. So much personal and career development, mentorship, relationship building, collaboration would be lost....even just how I see the world would not be the same had I spent 22 hours per day in the same room for the last 15 years, never interacting with other people, developing personal relationships with my employer and clients.

If you think going to work is soul sucking, you might have the wrong job.....I personally found sitting in the same room 22-24 hours per day soul sucking.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

It would be interesting to know the age of people on this forum who don`t believe that work from home, or some form of it, is here to stay.

In my experience people under 35 now expect some kind of work from home option. The term "the genie is out of the bottle" has been used a few times. It is. The pandemic made many people, and organizations, realize that they don't have to be physically present in a soul sucking office to effectively do their job.

People experienced what work-life balance is/can be and are not willing to be forced back into commuting 20-30 minutes to sit in an office all day for those few moments of physical interaction that many here claim is so important. Zoom, MSTeams, Skype.....

The world and how we communicate and interact has shifted dramatically in the past ten years. To think that methods and forms of how we work wont also shift, and be expected by employees to shift, is short sighted and shows the distinct schism in how the older generation and younger generation view office work differently.

Those that don't adapt will see their talent leave for those who do.

I think it mostly depends on the business you are in. I hated working from home, and I'm 40. But I also find my home to be more stressful than my workplace. And my job is probably 20% outdoor work. The biggest permanent change for me will be remote meetings because most of my meetings are out of the office.

The only people in my office who want to work from home are administrative staff and they still need to swap paper a couple of times per week because we are in a business that uses a lot of paper.

I think we will mostly go back to office work as a society. I don't know what percentage of work is done generally in an office and relatively independently by an individual. So I think working from home in some form is here to say, just not by most people (because their jobs can't accommodate it).

I will also add that the worst part of my day is commuting roughly 30 minutes each way. Even though I am provided a vehicle with gas, I still hate it.

[wags_in_the_peg]

office job and you are "provided a vehicle with gas"? really

[zalf]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

office job and you are "provided a vehicle with gas"? really

- Engineer who has to drive to job sites
- Crop / food inspector
- Sales who is sent to visit clients who are too far to see on the lunch hour but too close to fly

Doesn't seem that crazy

[wags_in_the_peg]

my kids are getting older and more self sufficient, but the days of flying home from work so we can have some sort of supper made before we fly off to swimming lessons, hockey practice, band practice, etc. If you were working from home, meal prep can be done and save on the commute. win win

what i don't like is when i hear from a few ladies i know who get together every Wed for "wine wednesdays", not in the evening but during the day. the 4 of them, fed gov, mb gov & 2 crown corp. as long as there Teams is "green" they are ok with this. they jiggle the mouse every 10 minutes, so the boss assumes they are busy.

i work in private, not gov and would like to think for the most part my WFH staff are busy, but maybe they doing this too.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by zalf

- Engineer who has to drive to job sites
- Crop / food inspector
- Sales who is sent to visit clients who are too far to see on the lunch hour but too close to fly

Doesn't seem that crazy

yeah that makes sense. i was thinking 100% office worker.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by trueviking

This is interesting...I've read in bigger cities they actually get pay cuts because they no longer have to live in expensive real estate.

35% of Canadians live in apartments. I can't see how it can be a long term solution to work from your tiny desk in the corner.

I think employers are worried about people quitting because of the labour shortage, and that's why they are not moving quickly back...but once that levels out, there is too much lost not having your people together....it will largely return to normal, maybe with a bit more flexibility, at some point.

I vote Wpggrump give up his username to you hahaha.

Personally I love WFH, I communicate with people constantly through MS Teams, video calls to talk through problems, get advice and collaborate together. As someone who would often have to be involved in many off site meetings, I now realize how hugely unproductive that was. If I'm downtown but need to take part in a 1 hour meeting offsite and it takes 30 minutes of travel time each way, time to set up, be involved in after meeting small talk. At the end of it, it took 3 hours for a 1 hour meeting. Now, I can enter the meeting and gain 2 hours of additional time. That would happen to me 5 times a week, losing me 10 hours of potential productivity/week.

Don't even get me started on the wasted time when people trap you at your desk to chit chat or complain about this or that. Then the commute time savings. I can easily find 25 hours of time savings per week WFH. That's half of my total work/commute time. In other words, I could be half as productive to achieve the same level. I'm so glad my employer went all in on WFH and making it permanent.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

office job and you are "provided a vehicle with gas"? really

It's a taxable benefit. I probably get paid less as a result of having it.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

It would be interesting to know the age of people on this forum who don`t believe that work from home, or some form of it, is here to stay.

In my experience people under 35 now expect some kind of work from home option. The term "the genie is out of the bottle" has been used a few times. It is. The pandemic made many people, and organizations, realize that they don't have to be physically present in a soul sucking office to effectively do their job.

People experienced what work-life balance is/can be and are not willing to be forced back into commuting 20-30 minutes to sit in an office all day for those few moments of physical interaction that many here claim is so important. Zoom, MSTeams, Skype.....

The world and how we communicate and interact has shifted dramatically in the past ten years. To think that methods and forms of how we work wont also shift, and be expected by employees to shift, is short sighted and shows the distinct schism in how the older generation and younger generation view office work differently.

Those that don't adapt will see their talent leave for those who do.

As I said, maybe the old pre-2020 model wasn't working: the model of long commutes, hustle culture, etc. (There's a reason why the number of people working entirely remote in my office includes all of the women who are mothers.) And you're right that a lot of people, younger people especially are rejecting the old grind mentality and looking for a better work-life balance. So maybe for some individuals, getting at least a tiny bit of that through remote work is better than the old model was. But while Zoom and every other platform is great for saving the cost of business flights, it's an absolutely sucky substitute for actual person to person contact.

And I'm 40 year-old introvert, for whatever it's worth.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by trueviking

as an old guy, I don't disagree with this...but I think the younger generation will see the folly of this eventually. I can't imagine who I would be as a person or as a professional had I spent most of my time working alone in an empty room. So much personal and career development, mentorship, relationship building, collaboration would be lost....even just how I see the world would not be the same had I spent 22 hours per day in the same room for the last 15 years, never interacting with other people, developing personal relationships with my employer and clients.

If you think going to work is soul sucking, you might have the wrong job.....I personally found sitting in the same room 22-24 hours per day soul sucking.

Or perhaps some people just don't want to be in an office after the last two years as they just don't like it, and has nothing to do with the job?

It sounds like you weren't able to institute balance into your life when you worked from home. If you spent 22-24 hours a day sitting in the same room and it tainted your experience then that is on you.

Work from home is what you make it. It's great that you enjoy the office so much. Your job demands that kind of collaboration. 90% of jobs don't. Offices are not the be all and end all. For some they are, for others they aren't. Your office experience isn't everyone's.

People experience personal freedom in the past two years and are reluctant to hand it back. Are you surprised?

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by wardlow

As I said, maybe the old pre-2020 model wasn't working: the model of long commutes, hustle culture, etc. (There's a reason why the number of people working entirely remote in my office includes all of the women who are mothers.) And you're right that a lot of people, younger people especially are rejecting the old grind mentality and looking for a better work-life balance. So maybe for some individuals, getting at least a tiny bit of that through remote work is better than the old model was. But while Zoom and every other platform is great for saving the cost of business flights, it's an absolutely sucky substitute for actual person to person contact.

And I'm 40 year-old introvert, for whatever it's worth.

And that is why I think the hybrid model is here to stay.

If companies/employers want to stay relevant in todays market they will need to realize that most people don't want to, and now realize that they don't need to be, be in the office 5 days a week. It's not necessary and it has been demonstrated.

A 3 in office and 2 out of office week, or vice versa scenario, is the way moving forward for those employers that will want to stay relevant and competitive.

I realize there is value to in person contact that offices provide, to both employees and employers. I just also realize you don't need to be in an office 5 days a week to attain that value.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

my kids are getting older and more self sufficient, but the days of flying home from work so we can have some sort of supper made before we fly off to swimming lessons, hockey practice, band practice, etc. If you were working from home, meal prep can be done and save on the commute. win win

I have to admit that this is a major factor in my preference... my kids are still young, and being able to WFH means a huge reduction in the amount of before/after school care time they put in, and it allows for much smoother evenings since I'm not normally getting home after 5.

If my kids were older or if I didn't have kids, it probably wouldn't matter quite as much to me. Most of the people I know with office jobs who kept going into the office non stop through the pandemic despite having the WFH option available fit into this category.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

I have to admit that this is a major factor in my preference... my kids are still young, and being able to WFH means a huge reduction in the amount of before/after school care time they put in, and it allows for much smoother evenings since I'm not normally getting home after 5.

If my kids were older or if I didn't have kids, it probably wouldn't matter quite as much to me. Most of the people I know with office jobs who kept going into the office non stop through the pandemic despite having the WFH option available fit into this category.

I would echo this sentiment as well. I have a 2 year old and 2 months old. Day care is 5 minutes away from the house. 4-7 is game time in my house hold with pick up, dinner, baths and put downs happening in that time. Now, I can come upstairs, go get my kid while wife wakes up the other from nap. Then one entertains and the other cooks and after dinner we can double team put downs. If I left work early to help out during the day I can go back down and finish up some work before relaxing with the wife.