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  #201  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 5:36 PM
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Portland and Austin have basically the same GDP and Portland is neither the capital or has a major research university. Austin definitely edges us out culturally but standard of living comparisons are a wash. Right now 1/3 of the CBD is arguably scary but travel one half mile in any direction and its new construction city. Tons happening. Concerning downtown proper, even without huge pedestrian numbers, the core is having a very buzzy moment, you can feel it and see it in many little pockets all over the west end especially. Things are definitely gritty but in the way this board likes. I suspect downtown Portland is about to be the new Portland! If you are consumer of urban subcultures perhaps you've noticed a new hipster variant emerging. I don't know how to quantify the pandemi-hipster but they seem to have a more urbane and thoughtful quality to them. That might be their slightly introverted gen z traits. Anyway downtown is filled with them right now.
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Last edited by pdxtex; Mar 13, 2023 at 6:20 PM.
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  #202  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nito View Post
I’m not sure who made you the arbiter or how you formulated the idea that nobody takes it seriously, when it is possibly one of the most heavily referenced and critiqued pieces of human geography research in the last two decades. Nor am I sure why you think they stopped producing updates when I stated that releases are intermittent (previous releases have ranged from 2-6 years), with the last published in 2020.

You are more than happy to use your own lists or other sources to create rankings, but people are equally open to critique your points. For example if I asked you the question, which city trades more USD than any other, accounts for the largest share of cross-border bank lending and half of global interest rate OTC derivatives, what city am I talking about?
The very fact that London trades more USD than any other city is its geographic position as a middle-man between Europe and the most powerful economy on earth; the US.
After Brexit many transactions from the EU are moving away from London and back onto the continent, hence the USD (de-facto currency on earth) not the pound is being traded. Being a middle-man between two larger Alphas in currency exchange doesn't make London the financial capital of the world when every other metric that is quantified has NYC dominating London.

Derivatives.... the CME group via Chicago and the New York Mercantile Exchanges are the largest on earth. Also eight of the top ten hedge funds are in the US including four in NYC. More quantitative 'Metrics' that New York completely monopolizes on top of the data already given in a prior post.



The GaWC listing from 2000 you posted heavily relies on qualitative or survey based data and ignores common sense and numerical data in which NYC heavily leads in all sectors.

Rankings based on quantitative Metrics that people actually take seriously (2022)...

GFCI (World Bank) - NYC
IMF - NYC
Forbes - NYC
Fortune - NYC
Common sense if you work in finance - NYC, Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong & London

UK is losing its edge as the middle-man between two stronger economic power houses (US/EU) but still show strong in the bullion market and insurance. Sadly, the greatest concentration of gold on earth lies beneath Lower Manhattan (NY Fed) and not in London.
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  #203  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pico44 View Post
Ha, I remember this ranking. Weren’t there three or four of these lists back in the day? All trying to quantify a global list of cities; and—curiously-or-not-so-curiously—all being calculated by British firms; and they always had London as number one. “You see!? We are the greatest city in the world! It’s science!!” Cooking numbers to achieve a predetermined result as a form of statistical masturbation.
Seems suspiciously biased when every other ranking from leading institutions from around the world including the World Bank & IMF has New York on top.
GaWc use survey based metrics and the only claim-to-fame is the currency exchange of the dollar which only means London is taking on a middle-man role between the US & EU/Asian markets.
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  #204  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 7:21 PM
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It's ridiculous to say that Montreal is a Charlotte-level city, and that Toronto is a San Jose-level city. Based primarily on GDP in both cases.
second that
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  #205  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Most people are employed doing jobs like cutting each other's hair, or doing each other's taxes. There are many more jobs that require a suburban, car-friendly environment - like logistics and manufacturing - than jobs that would attract people based on urban bona fides.
I'd add to that that while suburban industrial parks and suburban office parks typically don't have a shared public space, and you might not meet a single person who works in the next-door building even after years and years, the workplaces themselves are every bit as social as anything in the city. So this thought that Americans are starved for interaction because so many live and work in car-centric environments is not really the case.
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  #206  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
If you are consumer of urban subcultures perhaps you've noticed a new hipster variant emerging. I don't know how to quantify the pandemi-hipster but they seem to have a more urbane and thoughtful quality to them. That might be their slightly introverted gen z traits. Anyway downtown is filled with them right now.
The 2002-2012 hipster era was centered around music, and the rise of Austin and Nashville during those periods was centered around their reputations as music centers.

A variety of forces converged in the 2010s to kill off not just rock & roll but basically all music. Youth culture is not centered around music anymore and I don't suspect that it will ever return. The stars of the past risked alienating their fans by endorsing products and lending their hits to car commercials. Now, music simply serves to turn someone into an influencer - i.e. a peddler of clothes, self-help courses, etc.

Perhaps the next sleeper cities to take off will be "influencer" cities where influencers converge and urge people to smash that like button, or whatever they're all saying in 2030.
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  #207  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I'd add to that that while suburban industrial parks and suburban office parks typically don't have a shared public space, and you might not meet a single person who works in the next-door building even after years and years, the workplaces themselves are every bit as social as anything in the city. So this thought that Americans are starved for interaction because so many live and work in car-centric environments is not really the case.
While YMMV, I'd also say SFH suburbs aren't necessarily less social living environments than apartment buildings downtown. Probably the opposite pound for pound.
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  #208  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I'd add to that that while suburban industrial parks and suburban office parks typically don't have a shared public space, and you might not meet a single person who works in the next-door building even after years and years, the workplaces themselves are every bit as social as anything in the city. So this thought that Americans are starved for interaction because so many live and work in car-centric environments is not really the case.
Respectfully, no they are not.
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  #209  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The 2002-2012 hipster era was centered around music, and the rise of Austin and Nashville during those periods was centered around their reputations as music centers.

A variety of forces converged in the 2010s to kill off not just rock & roll but basically all music. Youth culture is not centered around music anymore and I don't suspect that it will ever return. The stars of the past risked alienating their fans by endorsing products and lending their hits to car commercials. Now, music simply serves to turn someone into an influencer - i.e. a peddler of clothes, self-help courses, etc.

Perhaps the next sleeper cities to take off will be "influencer" cities where influencers converge and urge people to smash that like button, or whatever they're all saying in 2030.
Id say 2021 was peak influencer when everyone was still cooped up and glued to their TV. I'm not sure what the common thread is around here? Food maybe? Brunch time on a Sunday and downtown is packed with hip asian kids in drab boxy clothes. Honestly out of the retail rubble I've never seen so many boutique eateries in Portland, especially in downtown. If you know our geography. The ne corner of the CBD is the wost but the west half is doing pretty good.
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  #210  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2023, 2:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
A variety of forces converged in the 2010s to kill off not just rock & roll but basically all music. Youth culture is not centered around music anymore and I don't suspect that it will ever return.

Who better to comment on youth culture than old people?
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  #211  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Charlotte vs Montreal as financial centres is an interesting discussion.

There is no denying Charlotte's GDP primacy and it's no doubt related at least in part to being a secondary HQ hub for US banks. Another factor as others have said is that US cities, metros and states always punch higher in terms of GDP in general, since the US economy is so optimally capitalized compared to most any other.

Still, Charlotte doesn't generally show up in any top global financial centres lists. Montreal is on almost all of them, though not in the top 10 of course.

According to an article from some Charlotte business journal, there were 91,000 financial sector jobs in Charlotte at the end of 2022.

Whereas Montreal already had 100,000 financial sector jobs in 2007-2008, and the sector there has grown and not contracted since then.

Now, it's fairly likely that that on average each financial sector job in Charlotte brings in more money (for both the employer and employee) than each equivalent job in Montreal does.
according to CBRE, Montreal had over 148,000 tech jobs in 2021, more than Vancouver (115,000) and on par with Atlanta (145,000).
Charlotte just under 62,000. Raleigh-Durham (known as "research triangle" Eds & Meds) had ~69,000 tech jobs.

On the CBRE "Tech Talent Scorecard" Toronto is ranked #3 (after SF Bay, and Seattle), Montreal #15, Charlotte #27 (1 slot above Calgary).

Of course with tech jobs being massively cut, we'll have to wait and see until new data comes out to see if there's been a shift either towards or away from certain markets.
https://www.cbre.com/insights/books/...ch-talent-2022

I don't know why the focus is entirely on GDP, when the quality of daily life is arguably much higher quality in Montreal than Charlotte. And Montreal has an international reputation and is clearly one of the best cities overall in North America.
Charlotte is primarily known for it's constantly expanding airport and a few financial skyscrapers/large banking presence. Traffic is bad, it's a sprawly mess of a region, public transit (despite recently building LRT/streetcar) is a joke, it's still very redneck despite growing to over 2.6 Million in the MSA.
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  #212  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
I don't know why the focus is entirely on GDP, when the quality of daily life is arguably much higher quality in Montreal than Charlotte. And Montreal has an international reputation and is clearly one of the best cities overall in North America.
Charlotte is primarily known for it's constantly expanding airport and a few financial skyscrapers/large banking presence. Traffic is bad, it's a sprawly mess of a region, public transit (despite recently building LRT/streetcar) is a joke, it's still very redneck despite growing to over 2.6 Million in the MSA.
Bc relative economic size is a rough proxy for relative importance. Those other things have nothing to do with relative importance. LA isn't less important than Zurich bc Zurich has fantastic transit and LA has (comparatively) terrible transit. Those are subjective preferences.

Btw, I'd say Charlotte is one of the least "redneck" metros in the American South, though obviously there's no way to quantify this. It's full of patrician upper class southern whites, tons of blacks, and tons of Yankee newcomers. It's probably about as "redneck" as Atlanta (which is to say almost no such presence until you get into the exurbs).
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  #213  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
according to CBRE, Montreal had over 148,000 tech jobs in 2021, more than Vancouver (115,000) and on par with Atlanta (145,000).
Charlotte just under 62,000. Raleigh-Durham (known as "research triangle" Eds & Meds) had ~69,000 tech jobs.

On the CBRE "Tech Talent Scorecard" Toronto is ranked #3 (after SF Bay, and Seattle), Montreal #15, Charlotte #27 (1 slot above Calgary).

Of course with tech jobs being massively cut, we'll have to wait and see until new data comes out to see if there's been a shift either towards or away from certain markets.
https://www.cbre.com/insights/books/...ch-talent-2022

I don't know why the focus is entirely on GDP, when the quality of daily life is arguably much higher quality in Montreal than Charlotte. And Montreal has an international reputation and is clearly one of the best cities overall in North America.
Charlotte is primarily known for it's constantly expanding airport and a few financial skyscrapers/large banking presence. Traffic is bad, it's a sprawly mess of a region, public transit (despite recently building LRT/streetcar) is a joke, it's still very redneck despite growing to over 2.6 Million in the MSA.
GDP tells such a limited portion of the story and ranking a city's importance on this metric is flawed. The US has the highest GDP in the world (for now) and one of the highest concentrations of large cities in the world. It's rather obvious that they would have higher GDPs then their foreign counterparts as they engage in so much trade with one another, similar to how US airports have relatively very high PAX due to the sheer amount of domestic volume they receive from each other. The sheer amount of trade is enormous and only a few top tier global cities can compete with the top 10 US cities in terms of GDP. GDP is also conventionally measured in USD, so Canadian cities are at an automatic relative disadvantage from the get go

Montreal's GDP was 233 BN in Canadian dollars in 2019, for what it's worth, having increased roughly 20% from 2015. I see it as a bubble top 10 city North American city (excl. Cental America) - I would argue anywhere from 8th to 12th, pretty consistent with all the global city rankings that have been published.
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  #214  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 3:18 PM
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also, Montreal has McGill University, one of the top schools in the entire world.
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  #215  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's ridiculous to say that Montreal is a Charlotte-level city, and that Toronto is a San Jose-level city. Based primarily on GDP in both cases.
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
second that
only Americans would think that
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  #216  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 5:36 PM
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Btw, I'd say Charlotte is one of the least "redneck" metros in the American South, though obviously there's no way to quantify this. It's full of patrician upper class southern whites, tons of blacks, and tons of Yankee newcomers. It's probably about as "redneck" as Atlanta (which is to say almost no such presence until you get into the exurbs).
Interesting, thanks for that impression. I think most of the world holds a very dim view, with reasonable justification, of the entire American South. That is, brimming with toothless, meth-headed, camouflage-and-cap-attired, quarter-witted Dump supporters named Bubba and Crystal.
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  #217  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Gresto View Post
Interesting, thanks for that impression. I think most of the world holds a very dim view, with reasonable justification, of the entire American South. That is, brimming with toothless, meth-headed, camouflage-and-cap-attired, quarter-witted Dump supporters named Bubba and Crystal.
Most Americans view the white NetheRealms above our great nation within North America as a wasteland of artic tundra inhabited by vast sheets of ice, polar bears and northern rednecks that drink Molson beer, drive American pickup trucks and munch on Canadian bacon hoser burgers .. they may be onto something Eh?!

Lets all behave children..
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Last edited by HyperPower; Mar 19, 2023 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Eh?!
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