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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 2:24 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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My sense is that a lot of this is driven less by concerns over productivity, roles, or best "way of work", and more about lifestyle preferences. Which is fine.

So, for example, the upper management, many who live in peripheral places like Connecticut, Princeton area, or East End of LI, with spouse and kids, seem to really like WFH. Shocking. The exceptions are those that want to get away from spouse and kids. Moms, especially, really seem to value at least hybrid work.

And the younger employees, mostly in Manhattan or Brooklyn, and many without spouse and kids, seem fine or even eager for in-office work. None of this is surprising.
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
My sense is that a lot of this is driven less by concerns over productivity, roles, or best "way of work", and more about lifestyle preferences. Which is fine.

So, for example, the upper management, many who live in peripheral places like Connecticut, Princeton area, or East End of LI, with spouse and kids, seem to really like WFH. Shocking. The exceptions are those that want to get away from spouse and kids. Moms, especially, really seem to value at least hybrid work.

And the younger employees, mostly in Manhattan or Brooklyn, and many without spouse and kids, seem fine or even eager for in-office work. None of this is surprising.

Completely different industry & location, but this is my general experience as well. Which also certainly flies in the face of the "lazy antisocial millennial/gen z" narrative that tends to get associated with remote work.
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
My sense is that a lot of this is driven less by concerns over productivity, roles, or best "way of work", and more about lifestyle preferences. Which is fine.

So, for example, the upper management, many who live in peripheral places like Connecticut, Princeton area, or East End of LI, with spouse and kids, seem to really like WFH. Shocking. The exceptions are those that want to get away from spouse and kids. Moms, especially, really seem to value at least hybrid work.

And the younger employees, mostly in Manhattan or Brooklyn, and many without spouse and kids, seem fine or even eager for in-office work. None of this is surprising.
I think that's generally true, but in-person is MUCH more productive for collaborative work. If you're training new hires, working on a tandem project, etc., it's just much easier to be in the same building. I think that's why early tech startups were among the first to ditch wfh.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 6:47 PM
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Downtown Portland is still a ghosttown but traffic is heavy every day so I don't know where all those people are going. Maybe with more flexibility ppl are actually running errands during the day too. My office is still completely empty most days. My theory is work from home is now considered an equity or inclusion talking point, with some people claiming its a necessary provision for whatever reason.
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Last edited by pdxtex; Feb 16, 2023 at 7:15 PM.
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:06 PM
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Any blue collar workers besides me?
It's quite a lonely thing on an urbanist forum .
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:13 PM
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This is a bit different, though. "Tech" isn't hurting at all; some of the largest tech employers who went on historic hiring sprees during Covid are laying off substantially fewer people than they hired during said sprees.

And more to the point, all those ex-FAANG/MAMAA workers are unemployed for all of, well, however long they choose to remain unemployed. A quick LinkedIn check just now confirms that *every one* of my contacts who was laid off is already employed again.

Direct competitors, industry agencies and consultancies, and even the good old US government are all picking these people up as fast as they hit the market.
I wouldn't want to be an unemployed tech worker in the Bay Area right about now. Everyone is laying off or have hiring freezes and those with exceptional skills and experience are going to get noticed out of the thousands in the job market. My coworkers are a little nervous. If I got laid off, I would return to Houston and take my FAANG experience with me and probably find something reasonably quick.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 10:24 PM
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I read somewhere people think all the tech layoffs are a kind of shot over the bow maneuver. Its to trim high salary, entry level workers hired over the pandemic when they had to compete for applicants. Also to kind of steer the power back to management because the proletariat was getting too demanding. Is tech ever not feast or famine. What is this, the third tech bubble since the end of the 90s?
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 10:28 PM
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Any blue collar workers besides me?
It's quite a lonely thing on an urbanist forum .
Well, according to the education poll in the skybar , I'm apparently the only person here who doesn't have at least a bachelor's degree, FWIW.

But no, as an architectural draftsman I'm not technically in the blue collar world, though three of my closest friends who live in the city are (plumber, carpenter, and gasman), so blue collar folk are definitely my kinda folk!

Regular people are the most special people in the whole world; that's why god makes so many of us.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 17, 2023 at 2:57 AM.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
I read somewhere people think all the tech layoffs are a kind of shot over the bow maneuver. Its to trim high salary, entry level workers hired over the pandemic when they had to compete for applicants. Also to kind of steer the power back to management because the proletariat was getting too demanding. Is tech ever not feast or famine. What is this, the third tech bubble since the end of the 90s?
They 100% over hired during Covid and didn't think about what they were going to do with everyone once the world got back to normal but they also have a serious issue with over management and not enough individual contributors. Tech sector still pretty healthy but the days of writing huge blank checks are over.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 10:49 PM
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Well, according to the education poll in the skybar , I'm apparently the only person here who doesn't at least have a bachelor's degree, FWIW.
Ah, I have one of those but don't use it . After several promotions at my previous employer I had to work in an office, since that's just what happens at those ranks. The good thing was I didn't have to be stuck out in the elements for 12 hours anymore. Although being in an office for the same time period really suxxx.

Quote:
But no, as an architectural draftsman I'm not technically in the blue collar world, though three of my closest friends who live in the city are (plumber, carpenter, and gasman), so blue collar folk are definitely my kinda folk!

Regular people are the most special people in the whole world; that's why god makes so many of us.
Blue collar in spirit!
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 1:54 AM
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I wouldn't want to be an unemployed tech worker in the Bay Area right about now. Everyone is laying off or have hiring freezes and those with exceptional skills and experience are going to get noticed out of the thousands in the job market. My coworkers are a little nervous. If I got laid off, I would return to Houston and take my FAANG experience with me and probably find something reasonably quick.
This is a good point, and I'm only talking from an APAC perspective. I imagine there are people losing sleep over South Bay mortgages who don't want to leave the area but as you say are suddenly unremarkable among a huge unemployed labor pool.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Well, according to the education poll in the skybar , I'm apparently the only person here who doesn't at least have a bachelor's degree, FWIW.

But no, as an architectural draftsman I'm not technically in the blue collar world, though three of my closest friends who live in the city are (plumber, carpenter, and gasman), so blue collar folk are definitely my kinda folk!

Regular people are the most special people in the whole world; that's why god makes so many of us.
Drafter? Nice. I was a substation drafter for the power company I'm at. I got into GIS about 5 years however.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2023, 10:29 PM
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After two weeks of being back in the daily grind of heading downtown into the office 5 days/week, I gotta say that I freaking love it!

For whatever reason, I work ~1,000x more diligently/effectively/efficiently in a proper office setting, with my colleagues within earshot, than I ever did slaving away by myself attempting to "work" from home the past three years or so. I've been more productive over the past two weeks than I was in two entire months of WFHing.

To explain it to those of you who love the freedom and flexibility of WFH and think I'm insane, I"ll try using the George Costanza "world's colliding" analogy.

For my whole adult life I've had two very different and distinct personas: Home Dan and Work Dan. Home Dan was the fun-loving, hard-partying, devil-may-care slacker who didn't give two shits and just wanted to "take her easy". Work Dan was the serious, take care of business, put my nose to the grindstone and get my fucking shit done Dan.

I kept them safely isolated and compartmentalized from each other because I instinctively knew (though not consciously so at the time) that if Home Dan ever met Work Dan, he would try to kill Work Dan, and I needed both Dan's to keep my sanity and to maintain a certain level of middle class comfort and stability.

When stupid fucking COVID happened, Work Dan and Home Dan were finally forced to meet each other face to face, all day every day, and sure enough, Home Dan totally fucking killed Work Dan, and I slid down into the darkest blackhole of depression that I've ever known (not joking).


Now that I've got real home/work separation and rigid scheduling guardrails back in place, I feel like Work Dan has been reborn!

I literally haven't been happier in years.

LONG LIVE THE OFFICE!
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 26, 2023 at 12:04 AM.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2023, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
After two weeks of being back in the daily grind of heading downtown into the office 5 days/week, I gotta say that I freaking love it!

For whatever reason, I work ~1,000x more diligently/effectively/efficiently in a proper office setting, with my colleagues within earshot, than I ever did slaving away by myself attempting to "work" from home the past three years or so. I've been more productive over the past two weeks than I was in two entire months of WFHing.

To explain it to those of you who love the freedom and flexibility of WFH and think I'm insane, I"ll try using the George Costanza "world's colliding" analogy.

For my whole adult life I've had two very different and distinct personas: Home Dan and Work Dan. Home Dan was the fun-loving, hard-partying, devil-may-care slacker who didn't give two shits and just wanted to "take her easy". Work Dan was the serious, take care of business, put my nose to the grindstone and get my fucking shit done Dan.

I kept them safely isolated and compartmentalized from each other because instinctively I knew (though not consciously so at the time) that if Home Dan ever met Work Dan, he would try to kill Work Dan, and I needed both Dan's to keep my sanity and to maintain a certain level of middle class comfort and stability.

When stupid fucking COVID happened, Work Dan and Home Dan were finally forced to meet each other face to face, all day every day, and sure enough, Home Dan totally fucking killed Work Dan, and I slid down into the darkest blackhole of depression that I've ever known (not joking).


Now that I've got real home/work separation and rigid scheduling guardrails back in place, I feel like Work Dan has been reborn!

I literally haven't been happier in years.

LONG LIVE THE OFFICE!
This perfectly explains my view too!
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2023, 9:10 PM
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I have a bachelor's degree in something nobody cares about(Geography, minor in GIS). I'm in the 4 year degree demographic but if we are being honest I don't feel like I belong in it so I know the feeling. I also have an associates degree in IT. I am upper-tier IT "engineer"(lol), which means when the help desk can't figure it out or we need to work on server or network infrastructure I deal with it. I got the job with various certifications and the 2-year diploma. I feel like most of it is learn by doing or self-study.

Technically I could work outside the office 100% of the time if I didn't have to go on-site and rack a new firewall or switch at a location, but I do like being in an office and talking to people.
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2023, 8:48 AM
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Steely, are you riding your bike to work again?

The only way I would love going back to work in an office would be if I could commute by bicycle.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2023, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
After two weeks of being back in the daily grind of heading downtown into the office 5 days/week, I gotta say that I freaking love it!

For whatever reason, I work ~1,000x more diligently/effectively/efficiently in a proper office setting, with my colleagues within earshot, than I ever did slaving away by myself attempting to "work" from home the past three years or so. I've been more productive over the past two weeks than I was in two entire months of WFHing.

To explain it to those of you who love the freedom and flexibility of WFH and think I'm insane, I"ll try using the George Costanza "world's colliding" analogy.

For my whole adult life I've had two very different and distinct personas: Home Dan and Work Dan. Home Dan was the fun-loving, hard-partying, devil-may-care slacker who didn't give two shits and just wanted to "take her easy". Work Dan was the serious, take care of business, put my nose to the grindstone and get my fucking shit done Dan.

I kept them safely isolated and compartmentalized from each other because I instinctively knew (though not consciously so at the time) that if Home Dan ever met Work Dan, he would try to kill Work Dan, and I needed both Dan's to keep my sanity and to maintain a certain level of middle class comfort and stability.

When stupid fucking COVID happened, Work Dan and Home Dan were finally forced to meet each other face to face, all day every day, and sure enough, Home Dan totally fucking killed Work Dan, and I slid down into the darkest blackhole of depression that I've ever known (not joking).


Now that I've got real home/work separation and rigid scheduling guardrails back in place, I feel like Work Dan has been reborn!

I literally haven't been happier in years.

LONG LIVE THE OFFICE!
I work pretty much the same at home as I am in the office because being in logistics scheduling, I'm rarely away from my computer all day long, I just prefer being in the office and being able to talk to co workers as opposed to communicating via Teams all day long. it's annoying.

That being said I am working from home tomorrow because I have to do it once a month to make sure I can log into the VPN. Working from home is the emergency office if for some reason the office is closed. So we have to make sure we can log in from home. I've been saving that one day per month all winter for days it snows...but we haven't had any snow all winter in the Philadelphia metro area. So I have to do it Monday or Tuesday this month.
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2023, 9:10 PM
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Steely, are you riding your bike to work again?
Not yet.

My L commute on the brown line is so ridiculously door-to-door that I've just been defaulting to it. I mean, I live like 500' from an L station up here in Lincoln Square and my new office is less than 100' from an L stop down in the Loop on the same line.

But I am researching possible bike routes, along with also possibly using a folding bike to multi-mode commute on Metra commuter rail.

Well see how it pans out, but rest assured, I'll find a way to work cycling back into my commute some way.

Afterall, bicycles are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2023, 9:12 PM
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Not yet.

My L commute on the brown line is so ridiculously door-to-door that I've just been defaulting to it. I mean, I live 500' from an L station up here in Lincoln Square and my new office is 100' from an L stop down in the loop on the same line.

But I am researching possible bike routes, along with also possibly using a folding bike to multi-mode commute on Metra commuter rail.

Well see how it pans out, but rest assured, I'll find a way to work cycling into my commute some way.

Afterall, bicycles are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
If it's that short....a scooter? Certainly more compact than a bike, unless you plan to take long detours for fun!
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2023, 5:05 AM
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my office does biweekly meets at the wework space (temporarily) but the organization has let all permanent office leases expire. we also still have in person staff retreats scheduled. thats more than enough for me.

I've never been one of these people who had a problem separating work life from home life even pre-pandy. when my work laptop was closed and work phone was off, I wasnt doing any work. that usually happened by 6p pre pandy and around 4p during the pandy since I wasnt taking 90 minutes worth of transit one way (unpaid). it is easier for me now that we're in a new house with an office rather than apartment. work stays compartmentalized there and after business hours I'm done.

do people who enjoy going in 5 days a week also bring their work home with them or are you good at keeping that stuff at work? I'm curious why work is able to consume some folks to where they arent able to escape it if they WFH. I also dont care to play dress up. I'd much rather have a polo shirt with basketball shorts on.

A good thing too about WFH, besides the best thing which is being able to be there with my kid as his grandparents take care of him while I work, is being able to grind it out while watching podcasts/tv shows/movies not worrying about work tripping about data because we have to use their shitty wifi due to the skyscraper having bad cell service lol. I get my own chill environment and knock out what I need early while being on call the rest of the day just in case something comes up.
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