Shopping Malls vs Strip Malls

[Yuri]

Regardless the convenience and resilience of strip malls, they seem to represent the worst of the US urbanism.

There are some of them in this video about a nightmarish 1/2 mile walk in Houston suburbs:

• Video Link

[SFBruin]

Fair enough.

Although, in most suburban parts of the US (which is most of the US, as far as I am aware), strip malls are a symptom more than a cause.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I loathe power centres. Big Box Barf and soul-sucking parking lotlandia.

Molson, in Ontario they're called SmartCentres, and we know you love that little penguin family

[MolsonExport]

Nothing Smart about those Centres. They suck your soul to the point where your temperature drops to a Penguin-level climate zone.

full disclosure: My previous career was partially spent running a big box barf outlet. It wasn't a dumbcentre, but basically it was the same thing.

[niwell]

In most of urban Canada, malls tend to be going in one of two directions - either to expand significantly and upgrade to a more high-end experience with luxury goods and whatnot, or to stagnate and decay with eventual replacement by new development. The latter category tends to happen to what were originally more "local" malls as opposed to regional centres, though some have managed to make the transition to the larger category. Usually the replacement of dying malls is a mix of residential and big box power centre type development.

The development of power centres continues unabated and they are as crappy as ever, even as land use planning regulations sometimes make them pay lip service to pedestrian friendly aspects such as smaller setbacks (even though the stores face inwards!). Sometimes this includes a master plan for eventual redevelopment as these structures are largely seen as temporary and are essentially just light steel warehouses on a concrete pad.

The traditional strip mall is an interesting thing in Toronto as these have become some of the last vestiges of cheap, small retail space as older retail strips are almost fully gentrified. Throughout mid-century areas of the GTA you see a lot of interesting independent businesses in these plazas including a host of small (usually ethnic) restaurants. One thing I've noticed with strip malls in Toronto built in the 50s to 70s is that they often have apartments above the retail space - sometimes now converted to offices or the ubiquitous "massage parlours".

Stuff like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/jm42EvYcuMCpxMC98
https://goo.gl/maps/1EmQf1aUj9REpyLKA
https://goo.gl/maps/haE4rc3MhuRncjtt7


It's far from perfect urbanism but they are functional and nowhere near as much a blight as power centres. Sometimes the front parking can be turned into patios and such too, something accelerated by COVID:
https://goo.gl/maps/2Pb172GaMTGNcXnx7


These types of strip malls are being targeted heavily for redevelopment as it's much easier to consolidate land than residential frontage. While replacements will include just as much (if not more) retail space, it's ultimately much more expensive and rarely will the variety of businesses be replicated.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by niwell

In most of urban Canada, malls tend to be going in one of two directions - either to expand significantly and upgrade to a more high-end experience with luxury goods and whatnot, or to stagnate and decay with eventual replacement by new development. The latter category tends to happen to what were originally more "local" malls as opposed to regional centres, though some have managed to make the transition to the larger category. Usually the replacement of dying malls is a mix of residential and big box power centre type development.

The development of power centres continues unabated and they are as crappy as ever, even as land use planning regulations sometimes make them pay lip service to pedestrian friendly aspects such as smaller setbacks (even though the stores face inwards!). Sometimes this includes a master plan for eventual redevelopment as these structures are largely seen as temporary and are essentially just light steel warehouses on a concrete pad.

The traditional strip mall is an interesting thing in Toronto as these have become some of the last vestiges of cheap, small retail space as older retail strips are almost fully gentrified. Throughout mid-century areas of the GTA you see a lot of interesting independent businesses in these plazas including a host of small (usually ethnic) restaurants. One thing I've noticed with strip malls in Toronto built in the 50s to 70s is that they often have apartments above the retail space - sometimes now converted to offices or the ubiquitous "massage parlours".

Stuff like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/jm42EvYcuMCpxMC98
https://goo.gl/maps/1EmQf1aUj9REpyLKA
https://goo.gl/maps/haE4rc3MhuRncjtt7


It's far from perfect urbanism but they are functional and nowhere near as much a blight as power centres. Sometimes the front parking can be turned into patios and such too, something accelerated by COVID:
https://goo.gl/maps/2Pb172GaMTGNcXnx7


These types of strip malls are being targeted heavily for redevelopment as it's much easier to consolidate land than residential frontage. While replacements will include just as much (if not more) retail space, it's ultimately much more expensive and rarely will the variety of businesses be replicated.

Excellent synopsis. I agree.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by niwell

In most of urban Canada, malls tend to be going in one of two directions - either to expand significantly and upgrade to a more high-end experience with luxury goods and whatnot, or to stagnate and decay with eventual replacement by new development. The latter category tends to happen to what were originally more "local" malls as opposed to regional centres, though some have managed to make the transition to the larger category. Usually the replacement of dying malls is a mix of residential and big box power centre type development.

The development of power centres continues unabated and they are as crappy as ever, even as land use planning regulations sometimes make them pay lip service to pedestrian friendly aspects such as smaller setbacks (even though the stores face inwards!). Sometimes this includes a master plan for eventual redevelopment as these structures are largely seen as temporary and are essentially just light steel warehouses on a concrete pad.

The traditional strip mall is an interesting thing in Toronto as these have become some of the last vestiges of cheap, small retail space as older retail strips are almost fully gentrified. Throughout mid-century areas of the GTA you see a lot of interesting independent businesses in these plazas including a host of small (usually ethnic) restaurants. One thing I've noticed with strip malls in Toronto built in the 50s to 70s is that they often have apartments above the retail space - sometimes now converted to offices or the ubiquitous "massage parlours".

Stuff like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/jm42EvYcuMCpxMC98
https://goo.gl/maps/1EmQf1aUj9REpyLKA
https://goo.gl/maps/haE4rc3MhuRncjtt7


It's far from perfect urbanism but they are functional and nowhere near as much a blight as power centres. Sometimes the front parking can be turned into patios and such too, something accelerated by COVID:
https://goo.gl/maps/2Pb172GaMTGNcXnx7


These types of strip malls are being targeted heavily for redevelopment as it's much easier to consolidate land than residential frontage. While replacements will include just as much (if not more) retail space, it's ultimately much more expensive and rarely will the variety of businesses be replicated.

Reminds me of https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8448...7i16384!8i8192 which almost doesn't look like a strip mall. Unfortunately I don't know of any other examples in Chicago like this...

[MolsonExport]

Older parts of Montreal have a shitload of examples similar to those posted by Niwell.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6164...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6077...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5778...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4866...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4502...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4666...7i16384!8i8192

grotty, for sure. But oozing character nevertheless.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Nothing Smart about those Centres. They suck your soul to the point where your temperature drops to a Penguin-level climate zone.

With all due respect, I tend to visit power centers / strip malls in order to get basic necessities. I'm not sure that it's that relevant how they impact urban form.

[memph]

Originally Posted by niwell

In most of urban Canada, malls tend to be going in one of two directions - either to expand significantly and upgrade to a more high-end experience with luxury goods and whatnot, or to stagnate and decay with eventual replacement by new development. The latter category tends to happen to what were originally more "local" malls as opposed to regional centres, though some have managed to make the transition to the larger category. Usually the replacement of dying malls is a mix of residential and big box power centre type development.

The development of power centres continues unabated and they are as crappy as ever, even as land use planning regulations sometimes make them pay lip service to pedestrian friendly aspects such as smaller setbacks (even though the stores face inwards!). Sometimes this includes a master plan for eventual redevelopment as these structures are largely seen as temporary and are essentially just light steel warehouses on a concrete pad.

The traditional strip mall is an interesting thing in Toronto as these have become some of the last vestiges of cheap, small retail space as older retail strips are almost fully gentrified. Throughout mid-century areas of the GTA you see a lot of interesting independent businesses in these plazas including a host of small (usually ethnic) restaurants. One thing I've noticed with strip malls in Toronto built in the 50s to 70s is that they often have apartments above the retail space - sometimes now converted to offices or the ubiquitous "massage parlours".

Stuff like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/jm42EvYcuMCpxMC98
https://goo.gl/maps/1EmQf1aUj9REpyLKA
https://goo.gl/maps/haE4rc3MhuRncjtt7


It's far from perfect urbanism but they are functional and nowhere near as much a blight as power centres. Sometimes the front parking can be turned into patios and such too, something accelerated by COVID:
https://goo.gl/maps/2Pb172GaMTGNcXnx7


These types of strip malls are being targeted heavily for redevelopment as it's much easier to consolidate land than residential frontage. While replacements will include just as much (if not more) retail space, it's ultimately much more expensive and rarely will the variety of businesses be replicated.

There was a proposal to redevelop a strip mall around here with apartments on top while keeping the parking lot out front.

The strip mall in question:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.43561...7i16384!8i8192

The proposed development.


The development seems to have fallen through in the end.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by memph

There was a proposal to redevelop a strip mall around here with apartments on top while keeping the parking lot out front.

The strip mall in question:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.43561...7i16384!8i8192

The proposed development.


The development seems to have fallen through in the end.

It looks ugly, but it doesn't seem like a terrible idea functionality-wise. The parking lot is already there, and probably sits mostly empty 95% of the time.

[mhays]

That's a nice looking building. But in a high-demand city, you'd generally make it wider with the parking underground.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It looks ugly, but it doesn't seem like a terrible idea functionality-wise. The parking lot is already there, and probably sits mostly empty 95% of the time.

It looks very tacky indeed. But as it's mixed-use, we cannot complain.

Anyway, all those links with those wide and sterile avenues, with more parking lots, are all so depressing. That's why people are morphing onto their cars seat or buying everything online. That's not a good life.