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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 2:59 AM
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Basement: Sobeys
Floor 1: Walmart
Floor 2: Canadian Tire
Floor 3: Home Depot
Floor 4 IKEA
Floor 5: Best Buy
Floor 6: Winners/Home Sense
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 3:41 AM
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Sounds like a repeat of Portage Place but with big box stores this time.

With the state of retail generally and the state of retail downtown specifically, I have a hard time seeing retail being more than a tiny fraction of whatever ends up in there. Kind of like Cityplace, maybe just the bottom floor or two.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 5:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Sounds like a repeat of Portage Place but with big box stores this time.

With the state of retail generally and the state of retail downtown specifically, I have a hard time seeing retail being more than a tiny fraction of whatever ends up in there. Kind of like Cityplace, maybe just the bottom floor or two.
Maybe a couple of levels of parking in there too, like City Place. The parking could be used to placate suburban taxpayers. It's a solid building, it can hold some cars and you wouldn't even know it from the outside. Then the old parkade could be freed up for redevelopment. Exposed concrete doesn't last forever.
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 5:03 AM
ue ue is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Sounds like a repeat of Portage Place but with big box stores this time.

With the state of retail generally and the state of retail downtown specifically, I have a hard time seeing retail being more than a tiny fraction of whatever ends up in there. Kind of like Cityplace, maybe just the bottom floor or two.
Cityplace is a glorified food court at this point. The retail I specified is both realistic and useful for demographics in the core in a way that it will hopefully be profitable. Winners covers basic clothing, HomeSense basic home goods (and both are very popular brands), and a grocery store covers food.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 3:17 PM
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Theres a hyatt place in Minneapolis with a hole in the middle. Not sure what the building was before. But I liked it. Rooms were a good size too.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
Cityplace is a glorified food court at this point. The retail I specified is both realistic and useful for demographics in the core in a way that it will hopefully be profitable. Winners covers basic clothing, HomeSense basic home goods (and both are very popular brands), and a grocery store covers food.
I'm not concerned with the specific tenants at Cityplace as I am with the overall proportions. Cityplace has two floors of retail which is a bit of a relic of the old days when it was connected to Eaton's, but large chunks of it has been converted to office and other uses. If you take out all of the office spaces and what not, it's basically down to one floor and a bit of retail which is about what I'd expect. I think any redevelopment at The Bay would be similar... maybe just retail on the main floor and that's about it. I can't see there being demand for much more than that.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2020, 5:22 PM
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The basement of The Bay could hold a ton of cars. Make the parkade entrance where the current loading dock is. Then build something worthy of Memorial Blvd on the old parkade site. This is where CV could come in and help get the parkade land deal done.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2020, 5:40 AM
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Theres a hyatt place in Minneapolis with a hole in the middle. Not sure what the building was before. But I liked it. Rooms were a good size too.
I stayed there two years ago. It's a strange building to be sure. It does seem like a reuse. The rooms were twice as deep as normal hotel rooms. I think the apartments on top were added later. Maybe even the hotel was added on top of the parking levels after the initial build. A lot of hotels have a hollow atrium from the lobby to the top, like the Luxor in Las Vegas. Google has no info other than booking sites about this property.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2020, 6:16 AM
DavefromSt.Vital DavefromSt.Vital is offline
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Originally Posted by plrh View Post
I stayed there two years ago. It's a strange building to be sure. It does seem like a reuse. The rooms were twice as deep as normal hotel rooms. I think the apartments on top were added later. Maybe even the hotel was added on top of the parking levels after the initial build. A lot of hotels have a hollow atrium from the lobby to the top, like the Luxor in Las Vegas. Google has no info other than booking sites about this property.
If you go back in time in Google Streetview it looks like it was originally an Embassy Suites. Their standard build is a double-deep room with a large lobby atrium.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2020, 7:59 AM
BAKGUY BAKGUY is offline
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Well, mixed use....a supermarket Whichever (Safeway/Sobeys/No Frills/Sa-v-on/ Red River Co-op) in the lower level and alog it perhaps a dozen moderate scale to upper end food to go places..Main/ Boutiques..2nd floor Winners,Marshalls & Winners..Unless they go to the renovated Portage Place..I think a combo of 2 floors of hotel, tourists shall patronize the food places, restaurants and shops. Then 2 or 3 floors of residential..Perhaps one floor of offices. to round it out? 9 - 5 is not enough to make it work so Retail, unique food offerings that cater to downtown residents, visitors, then Hotel & residential is best

Last edited by BAKGUY; Dec 6, 2020 at 8:23 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 4:26 PM
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If I'm starting blank slate with the Bay, I'm either turning the basement into parking and/or using it as warehousing/storage for whatever else is in the building, or leasing out for the same purposes. Why try and fill a windowless cavernous 80,000 sqft when you have another 600,000+ above to sort out too.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 4:36 PM
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^ Seems logical to me. Hell, they could probably convert that basement to parking right now and pull in cash from nearby office workers, students and residents while they figure out the rest.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 4:50 PM
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An architect could probably confirm - but it will really depend on the existing spacing between columns in the basement to determine if it would work for parking. You need a minimum width drive isle, and parking space width.

Then you would need to completely revamp the HVAC for parking.

I imagine it needs to be fully sprinklered too.

And, you need a ramp down there, which requires a lot of real estate somewhere.

Next.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 4:56 PM
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^ If they made parking work in the even older Cityplace building, which has some weird and awkward layouts, one would think it could be done at Hudson's Bay.

I wonder whether getting that cash flow going might improve the building's long term odds of survival as compared to simply boarding it all up for the next decade or two or three?
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ If they made parking work in the even older Cityplace building, which has some weird and awkward layouts, one would think it could be done at Hudson's Bay.

I wonder whether getting that cash flow going might improve the building's long term odds of survival as compared to simply boarding it all up for the next decade or two or three?
Building Codes change. How long ago was City Place converted? The 70s?
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2020, 5:30 PM
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1. If you are putting groceries in the Bay downtown its main floor or bust. Yes, when there were other things in the building the basement made sense but with a blank slate it makes more sense to be the main floor as you have customers with fairly heavy loads. They aren't stopping on the main floor to say browse Winners on their way out. The opposite would be true though, someone coming down from a second floor Winners and going through the grocery store might pick something up along the way.

2. Off price clothing retail has repeatedly been tried downtown and just fails to connect. Putting a different banner on the store isn't suddenly going to make it work.

3. The parking idea seems dead in the water. The Bay parkade literally next door seems to lack the demand needed even at peak times. That means any parking in the Bay building is likely going to be at lower market rates making it more difficult to recover the costs.

4. The one thing in recent years that had large volumes of people going to the Bay is Third and Bird. The farmers market at Hydro is also very popular. Perhaps some sort of model with an emphasis towards food vendors in summer but having smaller independently operated stalls would work. Sort of the "year round farmers market" people keep talking about but acknowledging that in the cold months there isn't really local produce. Might almost make sense to have a non-profit operating a larger market and purchasing produce/meat/eggs/etc from local producers and then selling it on their behalf. Great care would need to go in that in warm months it would be only local stuff and then in cold months only bringing in non-local when necessary. The basement could even be used to grow greens and act as cold storage for out of season root crops. The second floor could then be small stall local vendors. Sort of like The Forks Market when it first started out before it turned into just another mall.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 2:39 AM
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A similar project in scope, for some inspiration, is renovation of Maple Leaf Gardens in downtown Toronto a decade ago.: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6618...7i16384!8i8192

See some detailed images here: https://www.blogto.com/city/2010/10/...dens_makeover/

In summary:
Basement: Parking
Main floor: converted to a Loblaws (Superstore)
Second/Third floor: Liquor Store, Joe Fresh clothing. Ryerson University space, Gym.
Third/Fourth+: Smaller hockey arena, reusing the nosebleed sections of the original arena.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2020, 8:14 PM
BuildUpWpg BuildUpWpg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshlemer View Post
A similar project in scope, for some inspiration, is renovation of Maple Leaf Gardens in downtown Toronto a decade ago.: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6618...7i16384!8i8192

See some detailed images here: https://www.blogto.com/city/2010/10/...dens_makeover/

In summary:
Basement: Parking
Main floor: converted to a Loblaws (Superstore)
Second/Third floor: Liquor Store, Joe Fresh clothing. Ryerson University space, Gym.
Third/Fourth+: Smaller hockey arena, reusing the nosebleed sections of the original arena.
The problem is that we are not Toronto or Calgary. We have very little demand here for any kind of downtown space, and we don't have all the people with deep pockets to produce and support something this grand that those cities have.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2020, 5:20 PM
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Bowman today announced the formation of 'The Bay Downtown Advisory Committee,' to advise on opportunities for future use of landmark downtown location at 450 Portage Avenue.

https://www.mayorbowman.ca/news/read...ntown-winnipeg
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2020, 6:26 PM
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Bowman today announced the formation of 'The Bay Downtown Advisory Committee,' to advise on opportunities for future use of landmark downtown location at 450 Portage Avenue.

https://www.mayorbowman.ca/news/read...ntown-winnipeg
IMO A good and necessary first step. I feel there are some good people on the board with experience movie things forward. I would have liked to see someone from the Province there as well, but maybe there will be someone in the future.
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