noirish Los Angeles

[ethereal_reality]

.

I just realized there are additional KTTV slides. Perhaps they will help us figure out the location.




eBay







eBay

Does the area look familiar to anyone?

[ethereal_reality]

.


And lastly. . .


eBay


.

[Handsome Stranger]

Don't know the location, but those slides are definitely not from 1938 as the ebay seller indicated. They must have been taken between January 1, 1949 when KTTV first began broadcasting, and Spring 1951 when KTTV ceased to be run by Times Television (as seen on the truck in the first slide) to become part of the DuMont Network.

[Engineeral]

Originally Posted by Handsome Stranger

Don't know the location, but those slides are definitely not from 1938 as the ebay seller indicated. They must have been taken between January 1, 1949 when KTTV first began broadcasting, and Spring 1951 when KTTV ceased to be run by Times Television (as seen on the truck in the first slide) to become part of the DuMont Network.

Agree not 1938. The reporter's car looks to be a 1951 Nash Ambassador.

[Mackerm]

According to This page, the Cravens estate in Pasadena became the nucleus of Bush Gardens.

When Adolphus Busch purchased the Cravens estate on Pasadena’s "Millionaires’ Row” in 1904, the seller stated that he was selling because there was not enough land to develop a proper garden. Busch, the German brewing magnate from St Louis, soon proved him wrong. Within a year Busch was buying up land from his neighbors, eventually acquiring some 60 acres stretching down to the bottom of the Arroyo Seco. Opened to the public in 1906, the gardens featured exotic plants, dramatic terraced hillsides, a rock grotto, rustic bridges, waterfalls and ponds, and “fairy scenes” depicting tales from Grimm: Snow White with the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, and Hansel and Gretel. Many of these features survive in local gardens.

I don't know why Paramount reverted to the name Craven Estate [sic] when talking about Lucky Jordan.

Was the Meline estate in Pasadena or Bel-Air? Both places are mentioned on page 2968.

Originally Posted by riichkay

Screen grab from "Lucky Jordan", a 1942 release starring Alan Ladd....the picture is set in NYC, according to the plot this is a botanical garden on Long Island.

But other than a few establishing shots of NY nothing was filmed in the city, I have to think this location is out here.

Does the above gate look more like Pasadena or Bel-Air? There were separate entrances to the upper and lower gardens around the intersection of Busch Garden Dr. and Arroyo Blvd. where there is a remaining stone pillar, but it doesn't look the same. I'm not finding any big walls like that in Pasadena, either.

There is a photo of the entrance gate to the Craven estate on Calisphere, but it is different.

Originally Posted by riichkay

A greenhouse....








Could that tree on the right be anything other than a palm?....if so we are definitely not on Long Island.

California Garden & Landscape Historical Society

This view of the lower Busch Gardens shows a couple of greenhouses

Originally Posted by riichkay

The film is here, the garden sequence starts at 1:00:28...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXET...UniversalVideo

The Original Busch Gardens, by Michael Logan

This is from a relatively new book about Pasadena's Busch Gardens.

[HenryHuntington]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.

I just realized there are additional KTTV slides. Perhaps they will help us figure out the location.




eBay







eBay

Does the area look familiar to anyone?

_______________________

A shot in the dark...

The 1946 Studio City & North Hollywood Directory shows the E.B. Arnesen Nursery at 11239 Ventura Blvd., which is now an upscale strip mall. There was a real estate office between the nursery and the corner of what is now Arch Dr. Problems I have with this location are (1) these days, at least, Arch Dr. isn't a through street and doesn't rate a traffic signal and (2) Ventura Blvd. curves to the southeast whereas it appears straight at least for a little ways in the second slide image. Thoughts?

P.S. The Arensen's residence was at 12756 Kling St., which certainly is straight enough but much narrower now than the roadway in the images.

And a point of information...

The entire Los Angeles area and beyond was flooded due to abnormally heavy rains January 15-18, 1952. While the scope of the devastation wasn't the same degree as the March 1938 floods, they were sufficiently memorable for photos to be curated here: https://www.bygonely.com/los-angeles-rainfall-1952/

[Lorendoc]

Originally Posted by HenryHuntington

_______________________

A shot in the dark...

I made a nice post about this, and you beat me to it, HenryHuntington . I agree completely, strong SFV vibes from those pictures.

The palms remind me of Sherman Way in Van Nuys/Reseda/Canoga Park. The street is wide enough to be Sherman Way.

Addendum:

I found a link between the Arnesens and Sherman Way. Everyone in the Valley was a realtor in those days, in addition to their day jobs:


LAT 7/22/51 via newspapers.com

That address is only a few blocks from Browns Canyon Wash, a tributary of the LA River.

[Noir_Noir]

Edward B. Arnesen renamed and moved the nursery business in 1952 - California Camellia Gardens to 13531 Fenton Ave, San Fernando.



camellia5.azureedge.net


You can see the word "Gardens" on the sign to the left in one of the pictures to go with an E B Arnesen on the mailbox in another.


All coming together nicely except the location in old aerials and nowaday views does not fit with the pictures that I can see.



Google Maps Street View

[corriganville]

[QUOTE=Mackerm;9771964]According to This page, the Cravens estate in Pasadena became the nucleus of Bush Gardens.

When Adolphus Busch purchased the Cravens estate on Pasadena’s "Millionaires’ Row” in 1904, the seller stated that he was selling because there was not enough land to develop a proper garden. Busch, the German brewing magnate from St Louis, soon proved him wrong. Within a year Busch was buying up land from his neighbors, eventually acquiring some 60 acres stretching down to the bottom of the Arroyo Seco. Opened to the public in 1906, the gardens featured exotic plants, dramatic terraced hillsides, a rock grotto, rustic bridges, waterfalls and ponds, and “fairy scenes” depicting tales from Grimm: Snow White with the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, and Hansel and Gretel. Many of these features survive in local gardens.

The Craven Estate was built in the late 1920's. The only portions of that estate that was used in Lucky Jordan were the interior gardens of the estate. The gateway that is shown in the film was the one at what is known as the Meline Estate in Bel-Air/Beverly Hills. (Paramount uses Bel-Air as a descriptor while the L.A. Telephone Directory says Meline lived in Beverly Hills.) The Meline Estate was in the hills (note the roadway in the film which is curved and heads downwards, while the Craven Estate sits on a straight flat road.

[Lorendoc]

Here is a 1954 aerial of the 20117 Sherman Way address (north is up). One can see the shadows of those tall palm trees along Sherman Way.

The flood was in January 1952, so probably before the move of Arnesen's business to San Fernando.

e_r's pictures are of Sherman Way; the traffic light is the intersection of Sherman Way and Winnetka. The first picture looks to the east, and the second to the west. You can see that there is a gap in the palm trees west of the intersection before they pick up again further west, this gap is also seen on the aerial.

The flood-prone Browns Canyon Wash is at the the left edge of the aerial.


ucsb aerials

[HenryHuntington]

Lorendoc, sorry about the timing! I've had it happen to me, so I know the feeling. OTOH, looks like you've found the real location in the photo. And thanks to Noir_Noir for filling in more info about the Arensens, who seem to have been quite the couple.

Back in the early/mid-70s, I worked at a compay on Nordhoff between Winnetka and Corbin. Dunno how many times I drove past the very intersection in the photo on my way to and from the Ventura Freeway. Fittingly, the site today is a large-ish strip mall. Sic transit horti mundi, one supposes.

[Lorendoc]

Originally Posted by HenryHuntington

Lorendoc, sorry about the timing! I've had it happen to me, so I know the feeling. OTOH, looks like you've found the real location in the photo. And thanks to Noir_Noir for filling in more info about the Arensens, who seem to have been quite the couple.

Back in the early/mid-70s, I worked at a compay on Nordhoff between Winnetka and Corbin. Dunno how many times I drove past the very intersection in the photo on my way to and from the Ventura Freeway. Fittingly, the site today is a large-ish strip mall. Sic transit horti mundi, one supposes.

LOL excellent "Sic transit horti mundi" - "Thus goeth the (Camellia) gardens of the world" - Odinthor would approve!

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by Etrue

Trying to ID this location of my family at a So Cal beach in the late '50s.

This is on the Strand in Manhattan Beach just south of the Pier. It's my turnaround point on my Sunday Bike Ride from Playa Del Rey. Here's a picture from the North side but you can see the pier matches as do the lamppost bases.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by HenryHuntington

_______________________

A shot in the dark...

The 1946 Studio City & North Hollywood Directory shows the E.B. Arnesen Nursery at 11239 Ventura Blvd., which is now an upscale strip mall. There was a real estate office between the nursery and the corner of what is now Arch Dr. Problems I have with this location are (1) these days, at least, Arch Dr. isn't a through street and doesn't rate a traffic signal and (2) Ventura Blvd. curves to the southeast whereas it appears straight at least for a little ways in the second slide image. Thoughts?

P.S. The Arensen's residence was at 12756 Kling St., which certainly is straight enough but much narrower now than the roadway in the images.

And a point of information...

The entire Los Angeles area and beyond was flooded due to abnormally heavy rains January 15-18, 1952. While the scope of the devastation wasn't the same degree as the March 1938 floods, they were sufficiently memorable for photos to be curated here: https://www.bygonely.com/los-angeles-rainfall-1952/

I was born in Jan. 1952 in Pasadena, in the midst of the flood. I'm an Aquarian, water sign naturally. Curiously, I enjoy rain storms.

[fullpower]

Originally Posted by KevinW

This is on the Strand in Manhattan Beach just south of the Pier. It's my turnaround point on my Sunday Bike Ride from Playa Del Rey. Here's a picture from the North side but you can see the pier matches as do the lamppost bases.

for many reasons this does not look the same. i think it is Belmont Shores Park. the palm tree, the concrete path and the bushes all line up with view on the postcard, including the lampposts and the guard railing and steps.

[HossC]

Originally Posted by fullpower

for many reasons this does not look the same. i think it is Belmont Shores Park. the palm tree, the concrete path and the bushes all line up with view on the postcard, including the lampposts and the guard railing and steps.

That was the conclusion that sopas ej and odinthor came to a few pages back:

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I know exactly where that is: Bluff Park in Long Beach, and that is the Belmont Pier: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7610...4!8i4352?hl=en

Those are the steps at Ocean and Coronado Avenue, I believe: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7614...4!8i8192?hl=en

Originally Posted by odinthor

sopas ej, right you are!


eBay

This also adds weight to that earlier picture being sited at Belmont Shore.

[ethereal_reality]

.
Practice tarps. Sept. 1946.


This interesting slide of the Hollywood Bowl recently showed up on eBay


It never occurred to me how hot it would be to practice during the day at the bowl.

Here you can see makeshift tarps hung to alleviate the heat.


eBay

If you look closely you can see the musicians and the conductor.


.

[Mackerm]

Originally Posted by corriganville

The Craven Estate was built in the late 1920's. The only portions of that estate that was used in Lucky Jordan were the interior gardens of the estate. The gateway that is shown in the film was the one at what is known as the Meline Estate in Bel-Air/Beverly Hills. (Paramount uses Bel-Air as a descriptor while the L.A. Telephone Directory says Meline lived in Beverly Hills.) The Meline Estate was in the hills (note the roadway in the film which is curved and heads downwards, while the Craven Estate sits on a straight flat road.

Here's another reference to a Frank Meline Estate in Bel-Air (PDF) but no address

One of the highlights of the year was our field trip to Bel Air. As we stepped off the bus we were greeted by a chorus of bird songs and then proceeded to the beautiful Frank Meline estate where 41 species of birds were found.

I think I'll reedit my prior post to remove some of the repeated photos, but I THINK I found a match for the scene in Lucky Jordan showing the pond in front of a hillside covered with thin trees. Not as sure about the one with the greenhouses.

The quote about the Cravens Estate predating Busch Gardens seems to be wrong, but assume there was some relationship between the two.

Bush Gardens did include a sunken garden with a terraced hillside, now streets with private homes. There were a couple places which looked a little like the shot with the giant gate, but things were just off.

[Noir_Noir]

Originally Posted by riichkay

Screen grab from "Lucky Jordan", a 1942 release starring Alan Ladd....the picture is set in NYC, according to the plot this is a botanical garden on Long Island.

But other than a few establishing shots of NY nothing was filmed in the city, I have to think this location is out here.

Originally Posted by Mackerm

Here's another reference to a Frank Meline Estate in Bel-Air (PDF) but no address

One of the highlights of the year was our field trip to Bel Air. As we stepped off the bus we were greeted by a chorus of bird songs and then proceeded to the beautiful Frank Meline estate where 41 species of birds were found.

This 1932 Daily Bruin article places the Frank Meline Gardens a little way up Stone Canyon Road from the UCLA provost's residence at 10570 Sunset Blvd.



archive.org - Daily Bruin, May 18 1932


This is the area on a 1938 aerial. The UCLA provost's home is arrowed and what I think were the Meline Gardens circled.



mil.library.ucsb.edu


That area nowadays is addressed as 360 Stone Canyon Rd or 10550 Bellagio Rd.



The entrance at the junction of Stone Canyon and Bellagio.



GSV


Frank Meline was pointing out that no house had been erected on the estate when he was putting it up for sale in 1940.



archive.org - House & Garden, November 1940

[ethereal_reality]

.

Originally Posted by Handsome Stranger

Don't know the location, but those slides are definitely not from 1938 as the ebay seller indicated.

Originally Posted by Engineeral

Agree not 1938. The reporter's car looks to be a 1951 Nash Ambassador.

The way the description was written by the seller made me think the seller was referring to the old green truck.

"020 Original Red Border 35mm Slide - Los Angeles KTTV Trucks 1938."

oops. I see that it says "Trucks 1938", plural.... I misremembered the description as "Truck 1938", singular . .so my lame theory is kaput.

If you're wondering what I'm talking about. It's the green truck shown below.

eBay



HenryHuntington, Lorendoc, Noir Noir and others. I'm absolutely amazed how you all worked together and figured out the location!
KUDOS!

............

Originally Posted by Lorendoc

Here is a 1954 aerial of the 20117 Sherman Way address (north is up). One can see the shadows of those tall palm trees along Sherman Way.

The flood was in January 1952, so probably before the move of Arnesen's business to San Fernando.

e_r's pictures are of Sherman Way; the traffic light is the intersection of Sherman Way and Winnetka. The first picture looks to the east, and the second to the west. You can see that there is a gap in the palm trees west of the intersection before they pick up again further west, this gap is also seen on the aerial.

The flood-prone Browns Canyon Wash is at the the left edge of the aerial.


ucsb aerials

From this.



One more worship thingy for good luck !

.