noirish Los Angeles

[CityBoyDoug]

Originally Posted by riichkay

Several photo sets from the Life Magazine archives have been posted, but I don't recall these....and I searched the thread with multiple keywords, nothing came up...but as always, apologies for any re-posts.

Oh my, Hollywood actors slumming it with real people. New York method acting was all the rage in those days.

[JeffDiego]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

Flyingwedge, great stuff! I've not come across this info before!

And welcome ovens.

There is lots of conflicting information concerning this Norma Triangle area of West Hollywood and possible relationship to Norma Talmadge.
Here's some of it.

From IMDB: (Link HERE.)

Talmadge Street in Hollywood, California, USA is named for Norma and her sister Constance Talmadge. It ran along the west side of Vitagraph's west coast studio where the Talmadges made some of their movies in the 1910s. The studio is now the ABC Television Center, west coast home of the American Broadcasting Company and its Los Angeles station, KABC-TV.

Another street, Norma Place in West Hollywood, California, is also named for her. The street was originally an easement road that led to the entrance of a tiny studio Norma's husband, Joseph M. Schenck, built for her when she joined his company, First National, in 1919. The studio was used solely to produce movies made by Norma's and Constance's production companies. It was abandoned in 1926 when the production company owned by Norma and her sister Constance Talmadge moved to First National's new home, the Burbank Studios (now home to Warner Brothers). The studio, too small to be properly converted to sound production, was torn down in the 1930s. Norma Place was lengthened, making it a through street, and houses were built where the old studio once stood. Dorothy Parker and her husband, Alan Campbell, lived on Norma Place for most of the years they worked in Hollywood.
___

Article about the Norma Triangle on WeHoVille: (Link HERE.)

Legend has it that the silent movie star Norma Talmadge had a film studio in the area and the homes were originally dressing rooms for the stars after whom she named the streets (Cynthia Street, Lloyd Place, Dicks Street, Phyllis Street, Keith Avenue, etc).

However, historians say the homes in the area were built for the people who worked for the streetcar company, Los Angeles Pacific Railway, which had a depot where the Pacific Design Center now stands. Those historians say the streets were named after children and friends of Moses Sherman, who founded the area (West Hollywood’s original name was Sherman).
___

From an article about WeHo street names: (Link HERE.)

Historians, who couldn’t establish any connection between Talmadge and the neighborhood, believe Norma, and streets like Clark, Lloyd, Cynthia, Dicks, Hammond and others "were named after senior executives of the Los Angeles Pacific Railroad Company or their spouses or children. Those executives, Moses Sherman and Eli P. Clark, built the streets prior to Norma Talmadge's arrival in Hollywood.
___

A West Hollywood Historic Resources survey form dated 1986-87, lists info about the Tony Duquette property thusly:
Link HERE.

Since its apparent construction in 1924*(1), this early industrial building has seen a variety of uses. Built for the lace factory (Cristoefelles Lace Factory) of Cornelius and Edith Christoffeles*(2), the building is reputed to have been the sound studio for Norma Talmadge but as she never had a studio of her own, was probably only used for a location in a film. By 1930, it was sold to George McGlagan and in 1932 housed the Beverly Hills Water Bottling Company. Natural springs are common on these southwestern slopes of the foothills, and several bottling companies operated in this area. In the late 1930's the building was also used for light manufacturing and a sheet metal works and in 1949, woodworking. In 1956, costume and set designer Anthony Duquette took over the building for his studio, from where he designed for many Hollywood films including Camelot in 1952*(3).

* Notes:
(1) -- Though it says "apparent" here, it's listed as factual on the West Hollywood Historic Resources survey form, but the builder and architect are listed as unknown.
(2) --The various spellings of "Cristoefelles" are the way they were spelled in the survey entries.
(3) --Anthony Duquette won a Tony for the costume design of the original Broadway production of Camelot, 1960.

The current West Hollywood Cultural Resources database says:
LINK HERE.

Architectural Description: This is a 2 and 3-story commercial building in the Utilitarian style built in 1921.*
* Date source: Los Angeles County Office of the Assessor

__________

--It's worth noting that the boundaries for the "Norma Triangle" area vary in different sources. (And aren't always triangular.)



--Not much of the information, gleaned from the above sources, is itself sourced to anywhere else.

--The IMDB info indicates the studio in question was torn down and on Norma Place itself, if I read it correctly, and then that street was extended. Wonder where the source for this info came from.

--Though several of the street names in the area are attributed to actual people, the one most in question (Norma Place) never is. (That i've found.)

Thanks for the interesting information on Talmadge Street, Norma Place, the Norma Triangle, the old "Talmadge Studio," and the Tony Duquette building which has apparently been referred to in the past as once being The Talmadge Studio.
For some who may find it interesting, Norma Talmadge and her sisters Constance & Natalie, lent their names to an upscale residential subdivision in San Diego called "Talmadge" in 1925. The neighborhood's developer had received substantial financial assistance from Norma's husband, Joe Schenck, along with MGM's Louis B. Mayer and theatre owner Sid Grauman. The Talmadge sisters were at the dedicatory ceremony for the subdivision in January, 1926, along with Buster Keaton and William S. Hart.
Talmadge is still a very desirable, manicured neighborhood in eastern San Diego, near San Diego State University. Famed architect and "father of the California Ranch House," Cliff May, built his first houses in Talmadge in the early and mid-1930's. These early Cliff May homes were graceful & picturesque one-story "Mexican Hacienda/Ranch Houses" inspired by the 19th Century Mexican ranch houses that May had admired while growing up in San Diego, and looked very little like the classic shingle-roofed "Western-Style" ranch houses that May became so famous for in the 1940's and 50's.

Here is a photo of a large home in Talmadge that was originally the sales office for the subdivision in 1925/26.


https://sduptownnews.com/storybook-stories/


Here is Cliff May's first house, built in San Diego's Talmadge neighborhood in 1932.



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...htmlstory.html

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by riichkay

Several photo sets from the Life Magazine archives have been posted, but I don't recall these....and I searched the thread with multiple keywords, nothing came up...but as always, apologies for any re-posts.

The photog here is Ralph Crane, we've seen his work before...recall the shapely woman with the backless dress at Hollywood & Vine.

The photos are dated Dec. 1957....the conceit was Hollywood's New Breed (as represented by Dennis Hopper, Nick Adams & Natalie Wood) at work and at play...the set starts out with the usual Hollywood puffery: the trio at Hopper's home (he was sharing it with Adams) in Laurel Canyon...eating take-out Chinese, reading aloud to each other, and some spontaneous hijinks:

Can't believe I've never seen these before! Bunch of incredible shots of some of my favorite part of the world. Couple quick notes about locations, though I think they're mostly pretty obvious—


That's 4th St looking toward Broadway. There's a nifty then-and-now here.


They're in front of the Ferguson Bldg, at Third and Hill. Angels Flight is tucked behind it. Here's a close up from one of the Nadel images at the Getty:
getty
...which we can compare to this shot:


Nothing says noir like a couple of neon signs that read "Cocktails" and "Chop Suey."

The three images in Cooper's, that's at 316 E 5th St, which has been a parking lot since 1970.



As for this, "In May of 1959, with laws against cross-dressing on the books, the police entered Cooper Do-Nuts to arrest anyone whose gender on their identification did not match their appearance. Arrests were made and patrons fought back, throwing doughnuts, cups and plates at the officers, who retreated and came back with a bigger army. The skirmish grew into a riot that closed down the street for a day. It was one of the first LGBT uprisings in American history" I still raise an eyebrow at that. It's said this is mentioned in John Rechy's 1963 novel City of Night but scanning it on Google Books doesn't reveal anything of the sort (of course GB doesn't provide everything in a preview, so I've ordered a copy of the book to see for myself) and, even if it did, it is after all in a novel, i.e. a fictionalized telling.

The first recounting of the Cooper Riot apparently is in a 2005 interview Rechy gave to the authors of Gay LA. He mentions that Cooper's was between the Waldorf and Harold's, placing it the mid-500 block of S Main. Trouble is, there's was no Cooper's there, or within three blocks in any direction. Also, a riot that shut down Main Street for a day would have made the papers (at least the Hearst papers!). No mention there, and I found nothing when I investigated the matter at LAPD archives. I don't want to be a killjoy, but it fascinates me that there's a whole Wiki page about an event based on questionable details from one 75 year-old's 45 year-old memory. Not to say it didn't happen, but this is not how history is done.

But I digress.



The Gloria Café, 109 West Third:


from ReelSF


(as it appeared in The Exiles)


Looking across 6th, at Spring, from the Hotel Hayward to the Los Angeles Trust & Savings Bank—


And what's this one? I know I recognize it but need to go run out and start my day, so I'll leave to another sleuth...

[riichkay]

Beaudry, after doing some research I agree that the Cooper riot story is apocryphal, and not based on any scholarship... the incident, as described by Rechy, would certainly have been a major story in all the papers.

I read "City of Night" maybe 30 years ago, recall it as an interesting novel.

[CityBoyDoug]

Looking across 6th, at Spring, from the Hotel Hayward to the Los Angeles Trust & Savings Bank—

Richkay & Beaudry



Why would the fire escape be missing from the building across the street? Scroll up to see the same building in Beaudry's post.
Its a small but odd detail.

I don't recall seeing these doohickey things on new buildings.

[BillinGlendaleCA]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

And what's this one? I know I recognize it but need to go run out and start my day, so I'll leave to another sleuth...

Looks like the 400 block of East 5th(5th and San Julian). You can see the 500 sign in the pic, so it's 5th Street, the buildings are more low rise so it's east of Los Angeles St.. You can see the Barber College sign and the hotel sign has a Pr... Here's the businesses on the 400 block of E 5th from the 1956 reverse City Directory:

via LAPL

and here's the current Google Street View, the Hotel Princeton had been replaced by the James Wood Community Center.
GSV

[BillinGlendaleCA]

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug

Looking across 6th, at Spring, from the Hotel Hayward to the Los Angeles Trust & Savings Bank—

Richkay & Beaudry



Why would the fire escape be missing from the building across the street? Scroll up to see the same building in Beaudry's post.
Its a small but odd detail.

I don't recall seeing these doohickey things on new buildings.

I'm pretty sure they're using stairways internal to the building for both aesthetics and security.

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by BillinGlendaleCA

Looks like the 400 block of East 5th(5th and San Julian). You can see the 500 sign in the pic, so it's 5th Street, the buildings are more low rise so it's east of Los Angeles St.. You can see the Barber College sign and the hotel sign has a Pr... Here's the businesses on the 400 block of E 5th from the 1956 reverse City Directory:

via LAPL

and here's the current Google Street View, the Hotel Princeton had been replaced by the James Wood Community Center.
GSV

That's it for sure! Well done!

[ovens]

thank you FlyingWedge Martin Pal Hoss C !!

I'm going to dig further into this and report back! I'm really having fun with LAPL ResCarta -- but I'm not finding that particular Sanborn map. Would love to get a look at the streets, context, years surrounding.

I found a company called "ETHERA RADIO LABORATORIES" once inhabited the property... which is fascinating.

[BillinGlendaleCA]

Originally Posted by ovens

thank you FlyingWedge Martin Pal Hoss C !!

I'm going to dig further into this and report back! I'm really having fun with LAPL ResCarta -- but I'm not finding that particular Sanborn map. Would love to get a look at the streets, context, years surrounding.

I found a company called "ETHERA RADIO LABORATORIES" once inhabited the property... which is fascinating.

One way to tell if a building is "older" is to look for the plates with bolts at the roof-line on masonry structures.

[ethereal_reality]

I happened upon this charming photograph of Jean Harlow, reading a book, on the MGM lot (in her dressing room?)

I can't remember if Harlow dressing room was on the second floor. (perhaps she's visiting the writing dept.)



Everyone at the Vickie Lester Blog, where I found the photo, have been trying to figure out the name of the book she's posing with reading....so far no one has figured it out.

I thought you fine sleuths, here on NLA, might be able to help solve the mystery.



Here's a close-up that I've lightened it a bit.


DETAIL

Anyone?

(she looks adorable without the extreme make-up MGM had her wear in many of her films)

I hear she was a pretty nice gal too.



__

[ethereal_reality]

VW DAY

Unknown woman sticking her head out of an orange VW Bug on Pacific Coast Highway. (1970s?)


EBAY (I think)





This next one we've seen (on NLA) years and years ago.

It was taken on the last day of street cars in Los Angeles, March 30, 1963.


definitely from EBAY

The large sign says...."The Silverliners are treason." The sign (bumpersticker?) above the window says "Investigate the MTA."

If I remember correctly, someone [visiting NLA] contacted us and said they were actually inside this 'Protest Bug' when the photo was taken.









What?.....it's not VW Day? Ohhh...it's Veteran's Day..


In that case, here's a photograph of my grandfather, Lawrence Barr, in WWI.


ethereal_reality collection

We called him Poppy.


_

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

I happened upon this charming photograph of Jean Harlow, reading a book, on the MGM lot (in her dressing room?)

I can't remember if Harlow dressing room was on the second floor. (perhaps she's visiting the writing dept.)



Everyone at the Vickie Lester Blog, where I found the photo, have been trying to figure out the name of the book she's posing with reading....so far no one has figured it out.

I thought you fine sleuths, here on NLA, might be able to help solve the mystery.

I found this better detail view (which I've also enlarged). It shows the book to be 'Red Headed Woman' by Katharine Brush.


i.pinimg.com

[Earl Boebert]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

VW DAY

Unknown woman sticking her head out of an orange VW Bug on Pacific Coast Highway. (1970s?)

_

It's pretty pixellated when you enlarge it, but my guess is the license tags say 1967 and 1968.

Cheers,

Earl

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

This next one we've seen (on NLA) years and years ago.

It was taken on the last day of street cars in Los Angeles, March 30, 1963.


definitely from EBAY

The large sign says...."The Silverliners are treason." The sign (bumpersticker?) above the window says "Investigate the MTA."

If I remember correctly, someone [visiting NLA] contacted us and said they were actually inside this 'Protest Bug' when the photo was taken.

It was Wig-Wag who gave us the inside information. Here's the original post and the reply from nearly four years ago.

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Beetle protest car 1963.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Los-Angeles-...item259a07b207

'Smog Liners'. I believe they are referring to the buses that were replacing the street cars.

Originally Posted by Wig-Wag

Well ER, I wish you had posted this one a day or two earlier so I could have bid on it, but that point notwithstanding, when it comes to serendipity you sure know how to pick'em!

The fellow in the dark jacket at the extreme left of the photo is none other than a teenage "Wig-Wag" on one of the last daytime run excursions during the last day of service for streetcars in Los Angeles over the weekend of March 30/31, 1963. The fellow to my right is my friend Richard who went on to become a transportation engineer and served in management for several major U.S. city transit operations. I believe the fellow leaning into the VW is another friend who went on to a career the LA DWP.

Attached are two documents from that day including the solicitation to ride the very last PCC car to run before the shut down and conversion to GM Dreamliner Busses. That run began at 11:00 PM on the evening of March 30th. Needless to say we all rode that last run!

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by HossC

This August 1, 1927 aerial seems to show Norma Place (arrowed) as a through street. Note the pretty dense housing east of N Doheny Drive, but nothing yet to the west.
___________________________________________________________________

Thanks for this aerial, HossC. Interesting that there was no housing on the Beverly Hills side of Doheny. Wonder why?

Originally Posted by Tourmaline

It has probably been mentioned on NLA that Carolyn Jones reportedly made her home on (8967) Norma Place too.
___________________________________________________________________

Thanks, I did not know that! (Or didn't recall it being mentioned.)

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by HossC

I found this better detail view (which I've also enlarged). It shows the book to be 'Red Headed Woman' by Katharine Brush.


i.pinimg.com

Good job Hoss! Now we know the date of the photograph as well. (1931 or 32)

because Jean Harlow starred in MGM's Red Headed Woman in 1932.


MGM


The film is in black and white, so it's a bit difficult to tell if Ms. Harlow is really red headed in the movie.

Her hair just looks light brown to me.

MGM / Red Headed Woman 1932

I wish the studio had spent some extra moolah and had her hair tinted [red] on the film negs...leaving everything else B & W. (how cool would that have been)





As most everyone knows, Jean Harlow is famous for her platinum blonde hair.




Hoss, do you want to let them know ever at the Vickie Lester Blog?

[AlvaroLegido]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Here's a photograph of my grandfather, Lawrence Barr, in WWI.

ethereal_reality collection
We called him Poppy.

Grateful tribute from France to Mr Lawrence Barr !

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by riichkay

Several photo sets from the Life Magazine archives have been posted, but I don't recall these...

The photog here is Ralph Crane, we've seen his work before...recall the shapely woman with the backless dress at Hollywood & Vine.

The photos are dated Dec. 1957....the conceit was Hollywood's New Breed (as represented by Dennis Hopper, Nick Adams & Natalie Wood) at work and at play...the set starts out with the usual Hollywood puffery: the trio at Hopper's home (he was sharing it with Adams) in Laurel Canyon...eating take-out Chinese, reading aloud to each other, and some spontaneous hijinks.
_________________________________________________________________

Nice find, riichkay, thanks for posting these!

Originally Posted by Beaudry

As for this, "In May of 1959, with laws against cross-dressing on the books, the police entered Cooper Do-Nuts to arrest anyone whose gender on their identification did not match their appearance. Arrests were made and patrons fought back, throwing doughnuts, cups and plates at the officers, who retreated and came back with a bigger army. The skirmish grew into a riot that closed down the street for a day. It was one of the first LGBT uprisings in American history" I still raise an eyebrow at that. It's said this is mentioned in John Rechy's 1963 novel City of Night but scanning it on Google Books doesn't reveal anything of the sort (of course GB doesn't provide everything in a preview, so I've ordered a copy of the book to see for myself) and, even if it did, it is after all in a novel, i.e. a fictionalized telling.

The first recounting of the Cooper Riot apparently is in a 2005 interview Rechy gave to the authors of Gay LA. He mentions that Cooper's was between the Waldorf and Harold's, placing it the mid-500 block of S Main. Trouble is, there's was no Cooper's there, or within three blocks in any direction. Also, a riot that shut down Main Street for a day would have made the papers (at least the Hearst papers!). No mention there, and I found nothing when I investigated the matter at LAPD archives. I don't want to be a killjoy, but it fascinates me that there's a whole Wiki page about an event based on questionable details from one 75 year-old's 45 year-old memory. Not to say it didn't happen, but this is not how history is done.
_________________________________________________________________

The wiki entry notes that this incident lasted for a "night", not during the day.

The wiki entry also says:

Mark Thompson, a historian who lived in the same area as Rechy, wrote, “I would not describe it as a riot but more like an isolated patch of local social unrest that had lasting repercussions. I think less in its day, more as a lesson for us today.”

Originally Posted by riichkay

Beaudry, after doing some research I agree that the Cooper riot story is apocryphal, and not based on any scholarship... the incident, as described by Rechy, would certainly have been a major story in all the papers.
___________________________________________________________________

In 1959 I'm not sure a story like that would've been in all the papers. It certainly wouldn't have taken up much space and, more than likely, it would have been written in a tone of amusement.

But noting that the time it was to have specifically occurred, in May of 1959 if that is accurate, and that police were involved, indicates that there should be some record of it somewhere, I would think.

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

VW DAY

Unknown woman sticking her head out of an orange VW Bug on Pacific Coast Highway. (1970s?)
___________________________________________________________________

I happen to think that's a guy.


--------

Also, thank you for posting that photo of your Grandfather from WWI, celebrating the end of WWI 100 years ago yesterday!

Your family called him Poppy and poppies were also used as a symbol for the end of the war.