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  #15101  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 11:43 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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^ Which is insanity. Bars with mandatory parking never made sense to me, even before Uber, and since Uber it's almost criminal.

Building an alcohol-infused entertainment district when Downtown has never had an overall parking shortage because it has heaps of garages makes little sense. None of the garages downtown are remotely full on nights and weekends--some shuttles could solve downtown's perceived walkability and parking problems rather than build yet another single use parking eyesore.

Last edited by combusean; Aug 13, 2019 at 11:56 PM.
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  #15102  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
This is the most accurate statement in the article:

"We can't just ignore the fact that people will be coming downtown in their cars."
Yes, some people will always drive downtown, but downtown currently has a surplus of parking. I never even have problems finding parking if I go to a Dbacks or Suns game on days I don't take the LRT.
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  #15103  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 2:05 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
Bummer indeed. Weren't they already proposing a massive parking garage just north of the Phoenix Center of the Arts parking lot as part of Hance Park revitalization?? Not a good look for Hance Park when it is being surrounded by parking garages on both sides...

Edit: After reviewing updated renderings, looks like they killed the parking garage and leaving surface parking lot as is
What renderings?
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  #15104  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 2:33 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Yes, some people will always drive downtown, but downtown currently has a surplus of parking. I never even have problems finding parking if I go to a Dbacks or Suns game on days I don't take the LRT.
Exactly -- and silly statements like the one made by Nick Wood may very well ensure that we continue to perpetuate that surplus forever.
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  #15105  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 7:29 AM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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If True North builds their office development on Portland between 1st and 2nd St, there will be a massive podium of parking literally a block from the garage on Moreland.
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  #15106  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
What renderings?
https://www.phoenix.gov/parks/hancerevitalization
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  #15107  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 5:44 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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The building where Mary Coyle's was located on 7th Street and Bethany has been demolished. I don't think this happened overnight but I drive by it often and never noticed until today. Looks like demo permits were issued about 3 weeks ago.

Does anyone know what they are doing here? It's owned by Avalon Development and their website shows almost all retail development but one of the demo permits reads "TOTAL DEMOLITION OF EXISTING SOUTH STUCTURE PREPERATION OF A NEW OFFICE BUILDING TO BE BUILT."

I can't imagine anyone wanting to build an office building at that location unless it was their own, tons of vacancy in that area.
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  #15108  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
The building where Mary Coyle's was located on 7th Street and Bethany has been demolished. I don't think this happened overnight but I drive by it often and never noticed until today. Looks like demo permits were issued about 3 weeks ago.

Does anyone know what they are doing here? It's owned by Avalon Development and their website shows almost all retail development but one of the demo permits reads "TOTAL DEMOLITION OF EXISTING SOUTH STUCTURE PREPERATION OF A NEW OFFICE BUILDING TO BE BUILT."

I can't imagine anyone wanting to build an office building at that location unless it was their own, tons of vacancy in that area.
I noticed them starting demo a couple weeks ago and went by today on the way to Lil' Miss Barbeque (fantastic BBQ BTW!). I wanted to stop at try and get some more info, but didn't have time.
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  #15109  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 11:15 PM
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Little Miss is excellent, I hope you had brisket. We usually split a two-meat plate when we go, the portions there are definitely appropriate for the typical obese American!
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  #15110  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 11:49 PM
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Little Miss is excellent, I hope you had brisket. We usually split a two-meat plate when we go, the portions there are definitely appropriate for the typical obese American!
Oh yeah! Two-meat plate with brisket and pulled pork. The good thing is I can only eat half at a time. So 2 meals for the price of one
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  #15111  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 2:25 PM
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Does anyone have access to this article on AZ Central? Looks like it's somewhere in the Coronado District.

7 historic homes in Phoenix could be demolished for development

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...wn/1921143001/
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  #15112  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Does anyone have access to this article on AZ Central? Looks like it's somewhere in the Coronado District.

7 historic homes in Phoenix could be demolished for development

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...wn/1921143001/
"The houses, built between 1917 and 1928, are modest bungalows along 11th Street between McDowell and Coronado roads."
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  #15113  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
"The houses, built between 1917 and 1928, are modest bungalows along 11th Street between McDowell and Coronado roads."
Was that the entire article?
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  #15114  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:12 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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https://goo.gl/maps/c3sdJcenRbvRpv35A

The whole rest of that block has long since been torn down and turned into commercial/medical use. Those houses look terrible I certainly wont lose sleep over their destruction
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  #15115  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Was that the entire article?
No, just the location, which was I though you wanted to know most. Here's more. There are a lot of interruptions for ads and photos, so this not necessarily the whole article, but it captures the essence:

Seven houses in the Coronado Historic District could be razed to make way for new development — triggering alarm in the neighborhood and beyond.

The houses, built between 1917 and 1928, are modest bungalows along 11th Street between McDowell and Coronado roads.

Utah-based PEG Cos. is under contract to buy the houses but is still working on plans and hasn't requested any demolition or other building permits, the developer's attorney Stephen Anderson said.

A partnership called Eleven Residential currently owns the houses, according to property records. The group is led by the children of Dr. Wallace Reed, a longtime advocate for the Coronado neighborhood.

After hearing the story of an uninsured barber who said it would take 125 haircuts to pay for his child's surgery, Reed opened one of the nation's first freestanding ambulatory surgical centers in Coronado near 10th Street and McDowell Road in 1970.

Reed, who died in 2014 at the age of 97, purchased the houses near the surgical care center in the late 1980s and early 1990s for $40,000 to $60,000 each.

The houses have been rental properties for years, but recently one of the tenants was told they could not renew their lease, according to Sherry Rampy, a local real-estate agent and the chair of Phoenix's Historic Preservation Commission.

The tenant was told that the children planned to sell the houses to a developer that plans to demolish the houses to make way for something other than single-family homes.

Coronado is a popular historic neighborhood, right next to downtown Phoenix. But it remains one of central Phoenix's most affordable areas.

The 85006 ZIP code, where the Coronado and Garfield historic neighborhoods are located, saw home prices jump 21% last year.

The area's median went from $211,500 to $255,000 during 2018. But that's still below the Valley's median of $280,000.

Phoenix has few protections against demolition of historic homes. State law tends to favor homeowner rights over historic preservation.

"It only delays demolition. It doesn't necessarily prevent it," Phoenix Historic Preservation Officer Michelle Dodds said.

Anderson said PEG wants to work with Coronado neighbors and the city's historic preservation groups on any development proposed for the area.

He also said the deal for the historic homes is not expected to close anytime soon.

Historic-preservation advocates say they plan to fight demolition of the homes however they can, claiming destruction could set a precedent for all of Phoenix's historic neighborhoods.

"It's been shown time and time again that retaining historic properties is beneficial to developers. We just have an abundance of ignorant opportunists, I will say, because I can't even call them developers," Rampy said.

Dodds said that if an owner wants to demolish the homes, the process can play out one of three ways:

The owner can apply for a demolition permit, which Dodds would deny because the home is part of the Coronado Historic District. However, the city is only able to deny demolition for one year. After that, the owner can level the homes.

The owner can try to avoid the one-year waiting period by claiming the homes present an "economic hardship." The owner would have to prove that it's not cost effective to maintain the homes in their current condition.
The owner could decide to go through the rezoning process, asking the city to remove the homes from the historic district and allow the owner to build something other than a single-family home on the property. The Phoenix City Council would have final say on the zoning change.

Since a new owner is likely to want to build something other than a single-family home on the property, Dodds said it's likely they will go the rezoning route.

However, the owner could choose to demolish the homes first and apply for new zoning later.

Regardless of the route the owner chooses to take, they will face public meetings and likely substantial public pushback.

"Either way, they're in for a fight on that," Dodds said.

Although any formal action on the properties is likely months away, the Phoenix Historic Preservation Commission will discuss the possibility of demolition at its meeting at 4:30 p.m. Aug. 19 in Phoenix City Council Chambers, 200 W. Jefferson St.

Similar modernized home sold for $727,500
Joel Contreras, a local real estate agent and designer, is hoping to convince the potential buyer that the homes are worth more standing than as rubble.

"The houses are all really cute. They've got great bones," Contreras said.

Contreras has specialized in making modern additions to historic homes. He thinks that can be done with the seven houses on 11th Street for a handsome profit.

Contreras recently designed a modern addition for a 1946 ranch-style home near 15th and Hubbell streets, adjacent to the Coronado Historic District. It sold in July for $727,500.

"I can't think of a scenario where tearing these homes down would be more profitable than keeping them," he said.

'Horrible precedent'?
It would be unusual for a developer to attempt to remove homes from a historic neighborhood and rezone them for a different use, Dodds said.

"I just don't recall anybody trying to do anything like that before. I don't recall anybody ever thinking that's okay," she said.

She also cautioned that if the developer's plans go through, it could set a precedent for all of Phoenix's 35 historic neighborhoods.

"If that happens there, what is there to stop that from happening at any neighborhood?" Dodds said.

Rampy said the demolition of the houses would set a "horrible precedent" and threaten the houses on the outer boundaries of all historic neighborhoods.

"It would jeopardize all border blocks," she said.
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  #15116  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:31 PM
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I can't think of a scenario where tearing these homes down would be more profitable than keeping them,
Really? The homes from what I can tell would require lots of rehab to make them sell-able and the developer is not going to waste money rehabbing them as they would not make a profit. Renting them out as they are currently doing is not going to do anything for the neighborhood value and Sherry Rampy just needs to stay out of it.
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Last edited by CrestedSaguaro; Aug 15, 2019 at 4:45 PM.
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  #15117  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:35 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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I only see two near the end of the block that has any "charm" that might be worth saving.
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  #15118  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 6:37 PM
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I'm all for historic preservation, however, i'm OK with losing these homes. Their location makes sense for them to become something else, plus they aren't all that great (they're basically fine little brick bungalows), and aren't in great shape. If they did keep them and rehab them or integrate them somehow in an overall project on the block, I'd be OK with that too.

As far as setting a precedent... I doubt there are many, if any, other border areas of historic neighborhoods where all of the houses are owned by one entity and willing to sell.

Last edited by PHX31; Aug 15, 2019 at 6:52 PM.
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  #15119  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 9:40 PM
J_PHX J_PHX is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Really? The homes from what I can tell would require lots of rehab to make them sell-able and the developer is not going to waste money rehabbing them as they would not make a profit. Renting them out as they are currently doing is not going to do anything for the neighborhood value and Sherry Rampy just needs to stay out of it.
The developer could definitely make a profit. Joel and some other architects that have focused on rehabbing houses in Coronado have rehabbed worse and added amazing addition. Like he says, these houses have great bones. In a perfect world, it'd be nice not to push out renters, but remodel & sell would be the best alternative to demolition. If these homes are demolished, the homes on the east side of the street and further north of 11th ST will now be adjacent to some future commercial area. I live in this neighborhood, and I know people are already trying to work with and contact the owners so we will see what happens.
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  #15120  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 9:50 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Three of those houses are 800 square feet and the others are between 1000 and 1200. A creative architect could turn them all into modernized livable houses but there's a risk with doing flips like that. A really nice 1400 square foot 3 bedroom house at that location could probably bring something in the $500K range, not sure what purchase and rehab costs they might need but with construction costs around $300/ft the margins get pretty tight pretty quickly. Living space is about $200/ft minimum but kitchens and bathrooms are closer to $400. If I add a nice bathroom and a 200 square foot bedroom I'll have to spend $80,000 in expansion costs on the larger homes, much more on the 800 square foot homes. Add in real estate commissions, landscaping, repairs to the existing structure, HVAC, electrical and plumbing upgrades, and incidentals and this gets to be a huge bite right as all the economic leaders are signaling an impending recession. The risk might be worth taking on one or two of them, but not all seven.

More often than not children who inherit rental property view it as an inconvenience and a scary situation their parents put them in. I'm not surprised they don't want to own them and I'm not surprised they will sell to the highest bidder.

It will be a shame to lose more historic housing but the reality is everything in that block is already medical use and Banner would probably love to have the land for expansion.
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