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  #14181  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 2:01 PM
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CrestedSaguaro CrestedSaguaro is offline
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Phoenix took 2 big steps backwards yesterday with the NIMBY's winning this and winning against the Camelback LRT extension. With all the progress Phoenix has been making over the last decade towards becoming a more connected denser/urban city...these 2 things...along with the fight for height at the lot next to Spaghetti Factory, the Northwest extension getting halted and the South Central extension still in who knows what...this city is slowly regressing back to the ways of the 90's.

The current state of the city council is a mess.
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  #14182  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 3:03 PM
AnthonyPHX AnthonyPHX is offline
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As far as I know, the Northwest (Metrocenter) extension is still happening as long as the Aug27 vote goes our way. Did I miss something? If be kind of angry if they halted that particular extension as it brings the rail closer to me place heh. Also MetroCenter is ready to rock.
The Camelback extension was headed in the wrong direction imo, should've extended towards the East to get to the 24th St/Camelback area as it's begun to go vertical.

The district 8 runoff also worries me. Carlos Garcia is a sworn enemy of the Light Rail and Mike Johnson has been silent on it. I'd rather have a pro-growth Republican than an anti-development democrat
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  #14183  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 3:05 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
Phoenix took 2 big steps backwards yesterday with the NIMBY's winning this and winning against the Camelback LRT extension. With all the progress Phoenix has been making over the last decade towards becoming a more connected denser/urban city...these 2 things...along with the fight for height at the lot next to Spaghetti Factory, the Northwest extension getting halted and the South Central extension still in who knows what...this city is slowly regressing back to the ways of the 90's.

The current state of the city council is a mess.
That might be a little dramatic. The people that live in PHX country club have a lot of money and thus a lot of pull. Somebody involved with blocking this tower must have the councils ear, as stupid as it is.

Politics is politics. Even midtown Manhattan projects get delayed for years over this kind of shit, blocked views, shade on peoples patios etc.
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  #14184  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPHX View Post
As far as I know, the Northwest (Metrocenter) extension is still happening as long as the Aug27 vote goes our way. Did I miss something? If be kind of angry if they halted that particular extension as it brings the rail closer to me place heh. Also MetroCenter is ready to rock.
The Camelback extension was headed in the wrong direction imo, should've extended towards the East to get to the 24th St/Camelback area as it's begun to go vertical.

The district 8 runoff also worries me. Carlos Garcia is a sworn enemy of the Light Rail and Mike Johnson has been silent on it. I'd rather have a pro-growth Republican than an anti-development democrat
Sorry, I meant the NorthEast to Paradise Valley Mall area. Also, no chance ever that this would go through Biltmore. It would not even made it to City Council.
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  #14185  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
That might be a little dramatic. The people that live in PHX country club have a lot of money and thus a lot of pull. Somebody involved with blocking this tower must have the councils ear, as stupid as it is.

Politics is politics. Even midtown Manhattan projects get delayed for years over this kind of shit, blocked views, shade on peoples patios etc.
I do not think so at all. Look at the last few city council meetings. A lot is getting denied or sent back to the drawing boards. The South Central extension is not 100% a done deal. If the lawsuit doesn't go in favor, then it goes back to the voters in August. With all the negative publicity and adding that these two other extensions are cancelled, I am leary about this going to another vote. They've killed a high-rise that was not even that tall. The other fight for height brewing next to Spaghetti Warhouse is most likely going to fail. Yesterday's meeting, a few council members were even questioning the I-10 West extension. Laura Pastor completely caved to the tower protestors which was unexpected. The developer was even willing to got 140'. She knocked it down to 110'....barely 7 or 8 floors. We'll see if the Country Club even pursues building anything at this point. My guess is they won't be able to get enough units in to get this to pencil out and they halt the development.
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  #14186  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:28 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is online now
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I do not think so at all. Look at the last few city council meetings. A lot is getting denied or sent back to the drawing boards. The South Central extension is not 100% a done deal. If the lawsuit doesn't go in favor, then it goes back to the voters in August. With all the negative publicity and adding that these two other extensions are cancelled, I am leary about this going to another vote. They've killed a high-rise that was not even that tall. The other fight for height brewing next to Spaghetti Warhouse is most likely going to fail. Yesterday's meeting, a few council members were even questioning the I-10 West extension. Laura Pastor completely caved to the tower protestors which was unexpected. The developer was even willing to got 140'. She knocked it down to 110'....barely 7 or 8 floors. We'll see if the Country Club even pursues building anything at this point. My guess is they won't be able to get enough units in to get this to pencil out and they halt the development.
This council sucks. It seems like none of them are for the urbanization of Phoenix. I feel like we just went back 10-12 years.
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  #14187  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:29 PM
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why do you so badly want a tall building on the Phoenix Country Club parking lot?
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  #14188  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:37 PM
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Im not going to go along with "the sky is falling weve gone back to 90's" thats absolutely hyperbolic nonsense.

The fact is, with ride sharing, self driving cars, cheap gas for the forseable future the incentive to invest in mass transit is at an all time low and its not just here its nationwide.

The city council other than the last couple of meetings have been overwhelimingly supportive of highrises and apartments and tiny units and shrinking street widths and all sorts fo things that go against your claim.

They kill a 7 story condo building at 7th street and Thomas...itll be fine. If it takes an extra 5 or 6 years to build the light rail out...it will also be fine.
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  #14189  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:51 PM
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If it takes an extra 5 or 6 years to build the light rail out...it will also be fine.
Council members were suggesting 2036 to revisit Camelback. That's slightly more than 5 or 6 years. Either way, the decision was to halt it "indefinitely" which who knows when it will come back. Maybe 5 or 6 years...maybe 2036. To me, waiting 17 years is a little too late. Phoenix will have another 100,000+ residents by then with more traffic and not enough mass transit.
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  #14190  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:55 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
100,000+ residents by then with more traffic and not enough mass transit.
Assuming we grow at the historical average we have been for the last 20 years Phoenix will have A LOT more than 100k more residents in 2036

The metro will have an additional 1.5 million people assuming growth continues as it has.
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  #14191  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Assuming we grow at the historical average we have been for the last 20 years Phoenix will have A LOT more than 100k more residents in 2036

The metro will have an additional 1.5 million people assuming growth continues as it has.
I just meant Phoenix...not the Metro as a whole. This is a Phoenix only mass transit issue, so I'm not including Metro numbers.
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  #14192  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 7:08 PM
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Phoenix only?

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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I just meant Phoenix...not the Metro as a whole. This is a Phoenix only mass transit issue, so I'm not including Metro numbers.
We'll be forced to revisit this sooner than later, but yeah. We're filling in as a region, so the solution will probably have to be regional. We'll see.
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  #14193  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Assuming we grow at the historical average we have been for the last 20 years Phoenix will have A LOT more than 100k more residents in 2036

The metro will have an additional 1.5 million people assuming growth continues as it has.
Much more than that - by 2050 (about 30 years) anticipate it will double to 7M-8M. Somewhere there is a giant ‘official’ state spreadsheet with all these growth estimates...

Regardless - we doubled the last 30 years, we expect to do about the same over the next.

And yes - THIS is what MAG, city councils, etc should all be looking at when planning and making decisions like these.

Honestly - I think what we’re seeing with the council right now is a bunch of people jockeying for position and getting what they can to make people happy before the new mayor steps in. We’ve had a bit of a vacuum since Stanton left and that vacuum has left the city more or less ‘leaderless’.

Though honestly not sure the new mayor will be as impactful as Stanton - I don’t see her as a visionary. (None of the candidates were at the level, IMHO)
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  #14194  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I do not think so at all. Look at the last few city council meetings. A lot is getting denied or sent back to the drawing boards. The South Central extension is not 100% a done deal. If the lawsuit doesn't go in favor, then it goes back to the voters in August. With all the negative publicity and adding that these two other extensions are cancelled, I am leary about this going to another vote. They've killed a high-rise that was not even that tall. The other fight for height brewing next to Spaghetti Warhouse is most likely going to fail. Yesterday's meeting, a few council members were even questioning the I-10 West extension. Laura Pastor completely caved to the tower protestors which was unexpected. The developer was even willing to got 140'. She knocked it down to 110'....barely 7 or 8 floors. We'll see if the Country Club even pursues building anything at this point. My guess is they won't be able to get enough units in to get this to pencil out and they halt the development.
No doubt - I can't imagine the enormous amount of money already FLUSHED down the toilet due to these invasive members of the community and city council - it would make me want to walk from doing development here if I was the developer.
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  #14195  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:53 PM
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Article on the One Camelback renovating to apartments. Excited to see this come together over the next year.

https://azbigmedia.com/stellar-resid...back-building/
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  #14196  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 11:27 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr.RE View Post
Article on the One Camelback renovating to apartments. Excited to see this come together over the next year.

https://azbigmedia.com/stellar-resid...back-building/
Thought they were going to be Condos
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  #14197  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 11:45 PM
vandypandybear vandypandybear is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I do not think so at all. Look at the last few city council meetings. A lot is getting denied or sent back to the drawing boards. The South Central extension is not 100% a done deal. If the lawsuit doesn't go in favor, then it goes back to the voters in August. With all the negative publicity and adding that these two other extensions are cancelled, I am leary about this going to another vote. They've killed a high-rise that was not even that tall. The other fight for height brewing next to Spaghetti Warhouse is most likely going to fail. Yesterday's meeting, a few council members were even questioning the I-10 West extension. Laura Pastor completely caved to the tower protestors which was unexpected. The developer was even willing to got 140'. She knocked it down to 110'....barely 7 or 8 floors. We'll see if the Country Club even pursues building anything at this point. My guess is they won't be able to get enough units in to get this to pencil out and they halt the development.
Honestly, the NIMBYs deserve a 110' building with zero setback, like the Local in Tempe. It's way more of an imposing building. How are they going to feel once the Camelback car dealerships start coming out over the next 10 years?
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  #14198  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 11:54 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by vandypandybear View Post
Honestly, the NIMBYs deserve a 110' building with zero setback, like the Local in Tempe. It's way more of an imposing building. How are they going to feel once the Camelback car dealerships start coming out over the next 10 years?
Yeah you already see it along Camelback, those dealerships are sitting on prime land for apartments, offices and Hotels.
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  #14199  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 12:06 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Apparently they are still planning on building even at the smaller scale.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...of-luxury.html

Quote:
Sunbelt Holdings Inc. is moving forward on a scaled back version of luxury condominiums on the Phoenix Country Club parking lot in the wake of a City Council vote that denied the developer's high-rise zoning request.

At that meeting, Councilmember Laura Pastor, whose District 4 encompasses the site, said she didn't support a high-rise development at that location and capped the project at 110 feet. However, she added a stipulation for Sunbelt Holdings to create a planned unit development proposal for the project with input from a group of neighbors who vigorously fought against the development. City Council voted unanimously to support Pastor's motion.

John Graham, president and CEO of Scottsdale-based Sunbelt Holdings, said the 110 feet cap would mean the project would be closer to nine or 10 stories, depending on its design. The proposed project would cover just under 3 acres. During negotiations with Pastor and angry neighbors over the past several months, Graham had gradually scaled back the height, lowering it to 164 feet then to 140 feet.

"Fairly recently, we were talking about going down to 125 feet," Graham said.

He said he has six months to file the PUD, which would still need Council's approval.

The details of the project — including the total number of units and total development cost — will be worked out over the next several months, he said.

If all goes according to plan, construction could start within a year, he said.

What he does know is it will be fewer than the 125 units and $75 million development cost most recently proposed.

"Laura Pastor really deserves a lot of credit for pulling the parties together," Graham said.

In his 35 years of real estate development, Graham said he has never faced such a contentious rezoning case.

"I have certainly gotten my fair share of blowback," he told the Business Journal. "In this business, you have to be diplomatic and resilient."

When he first agreed to help out his friends at the Phoenix Country Club and build the project, he had no idea there would be so much animosity from surrounding homeowners.

"I thought everybody thought that area was ready for redevelopment," he said.

Still, it's not as if he didn't think about walking away from the four-year fight, though ultimately he didn't want to let down his friends at the Phoenix Country Club.

"I'd say for every project, there's a decision tree that you need to make soon when you see this situation, which is either frankly just walk away or do you have the tenacity to sit at the table long enough to try to reach a solution," he said.

Robert Warnicke, a Phoenix attorney who led the group of homeowners who opposed the project said he's still trying to determine if his group won or lost.

Homeowners were against high-rise zoning, but they also were against mid-rise zoning, which is what Council temporarily voted to approve for the project, Warnicke said.

But he said he's prepared to work with Graham on a design that will be amenable for all involved.

"I'm not sure if at this point we're talking about fighting as much as we're talking about trying to mitigate damage from it," Warnicke said.

Separately, Sunbelt said this week that it would shuffle several senior executive roles at the firm.
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  #14200  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 12:52 AM
AnthonyPHX AnthonyPHX is offline
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Interesting crane app filed

I got an FAA notification about a new crane app for the Northeast corner of 3rd Ave and McKinley for a 'McKinley Tower Crane' at 130'.
2019-AWP-1214-OE

The current structure on that lot appears to be a derelict 2-story apartment building.
The property owner is MCKINLEY LAND DEVELOPMENT LLC. Formed in 2017. Statutory agents include Haselden Investments/Barrington Apartments. Based in Colorado.

Nothing is filed with the city yet afaik. Interesting to note that the current max height for this lot is 65'.
The tower crane could be for demolition?
An alternative reading could also mean they plan to build a 'McKinley Tower', but idk what kind of 'tower' you can build with a 130' crane.
Good one to watch.
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