Getting Sudbury to 200,000 in 20 years

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Then these are issues that Sudbury needs to avoid. The fiasco with Laurentian U was a scary one.

Was?
It still is.
There is threat that it still may close.
The green space has been threatened with being sold off to the highest bidder.

As far as the city, I almost think that if nothing was done except ensure that new homes are built fast enough for the potential growth, the growth may happen.

North Bay, Sault Ste Marie and Timmins all really haven't grown much in the last 40 years. Sudbury kind of has.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

North Bay, Sault Ste Marie and Timmins all really haven't grown much in the last 40 years. Sudbury kind of has.

Sudbury has recovered from its nadir - the population had dropped from a peak of ~165k in 1996 to ~155k by 2001. It's now at ~166k, recovering its losses. We'll see if that holds into the future, but out of the Northern cities, the future looks brightest there.

North Bay has dropped from ~55k in 1991 and wobbled in the ~51-53k mark for 20 years now. It seems to be stagnant.

The Sault peaked at ~82k in 1981 and has declined to ~72k now.

Timmins peaked at ~47.5k in 1996 and has declined to ~41k now.

It's not fantastic writ large. The highway 17 corridor between North Bay and Sudbury is the best section for population growth in the Northeast at this juncture.

The demographics are all wrong for the region and the place has been resistant to population growth despite Canada going from 29.6 million in 1996 to 38.5 million in 2021.

[swimmer_spe]

I wonder if a daily passenger train from Toronto would help the city grow? It would further help those that have decided to be car less to move to Sudbury and still stay car less.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I wonder if a daily passenger train from Toronto would help the city grow? It would further help those that have decided to be car less to move to Sudbury and still stay car less.

If Sudbury beefs up GoVa, sure.
There’s a bus route that runs every 15 minutes, even on Sundays. I see the potential.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If Sudbury beefs up GoVa, sure.
There’s a bus route that runs every 15 minutes, even on Sundays. I see the potential.

GOVA (not GoVa) is having the same problem a lot of other transits are having - lower ridership after covid and driver shortage.

[MolsonExport]

Visitor's impressions of a city are to a large extent informed by their impressions of the downtown. I don't know what can be done to revitalize downtown Sudbury, which struck me as pretty hopeless when I last visited.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Visitor's impressions of a city are to a large extent informed by their impressions of the downtown. I don't know what can be done to revitalize downtown Sudbury, which struck me as pretty hopeless when I last visited.

The first thing was to cancel the KED. By keeping the entertainment district in Downtown, it means it can thrive. Downtown isn't that bad.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Visitor's impressions of a city are to a large extent informed by their impressions of the downtown. I don't know what can be done to revitalize downtown Sudbury, which struck me as pretty hopeless when I last visited.

Oh man.

Sudbury's downtown is the victim of grand vision. At one point it was the shopping/government centre of the city. When it floundered, that meant it got redeveloped at such a grand scale by government as to be unfixable. To do anything, one has to tear down something large first, which precludes a large portion of the type of development really suited to the city. It's more expensive to redevelop than just build new in other parts of the city.

Had it been more Kingston-style low-rise/small-scale? Maybe that works. The Donovan has experienced a small renaissance, but that's because it doesn't need a super-redevelopment scheme to repurpose.

[MolsonExport]

The good ol' days

vmcdn

Incidentally, Sudbury is my wife's hometown

Some parts still have decent bones
• Video Link

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The good ol' days


Incidentally, Sudbury is my wife's hometown

Some parts still have decent bones

What is the downtown lacking?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What is the downtown lacking?

People.

Buildings that can be (re)developed by small-time entrepreneurs.

Residential zoning.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

People.

Buildings that can be (re)developed by small-time entrepreneurs.

Residential zoning.

How would that be fixed?

[softee]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Sudbury has recovered from its nadir - the population had dropped from a peak of ~165k in 1996 to ~155k by 2001. It's now at ~166k, recovering its losses. We'll see if that holds into the future, but out of the Northern cities, the future looks brightest there.

North Bay has dropped from ~55k in 1991 and wobbled in the ~51-53k mark for 20 years now. It seems to be stagnant.

The Sault peaked at ~82k in 1981 and has declined to ~72k now.

Timmins peaked at ~47.5k in 1996 and has declined to ~41k now.

It's not fantastic writ large. The highway 17 corridor between North Bay and Sudbury is the best section for population growth in the Northeast at this juncture.

The demographics are all wrong for the region and the place has been resistant to population growth despite Canada going from 29.6 million in 1996 to 38.5 million in 2021.

Latest Population estimates for July 1st, 2022 from statcan for the big 5 Northern Cites. Sudbury & North Bay are seeing some decent growth.

Greater Sudbury CMA
2021: 172,832 2022: 175,357

Thunder Bay CMA
2021: 125,070 2022: 125,334

Sault Ste Marie CA
2021: 80,324 2022: 81,158

North Bay CA
2021: 74,503 2022: 77,037

Timmins CA
2021: 42,427 2022: 42,675

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710013501

By municipal boundaries:

Greater Sudbury: 2021 169,128 2022 171,446
Thunder Bay: 2021 111,149 2022 111,113
Sault Ste Marie: 2021 75,118 2022 75,673
North Bay: 2021 54,472 2022 55,921
Timmins: 2021 42,185 2022 42,304

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710014201