Northern Ontario Fantasy Dream

[swimmer_spe]

I am starting this thread as a place where we can dream of things that we feel Northern Ontario should have. I would suggest it be realistic, but, as a fantasy or dream thread, it is what you make it.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am starting this thread as a place where we can dream of things that we feel Northern Ontario should have. I would suggest it be realistic, but, as a fantasy or dream thread, it is what you make it.

How about an airship port? Modern Zeppelins. I think there's a lot of merit to this form of transportation, especially for remote northern communities. Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie or Thunder Bay or North Bay could become a multimodal hub for that.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

How about an airship port? Modern Zeppelins. I think there's a lot of merit to this form of transportation, especially for remote northern communities. Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie or Thunder Bay or North Bay could become a multimodal hub for that.

I am not going to yuck your yum, but I would like to know why it would be something that would make Northern Ontario better?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am not going to yuck your yum, but I would like to know why it would be something that would make Northern Ontario better?

It's an economic development opportunity. It may be marginal (many remote communities may not need regular service) but it could be an opportunity given the vastness of Ontario's north and the number of remote communities who may benefit from the service.

Some people think better highway connections to the south are a good thing. They are in terms of access to Toronto, but from a freight transportation standpoint it does little for the north... better connections to Toronto? Well, then there's little need to have northern bases for freight.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

It's an economic development opportunity. It may be marginal (many remote communities may not need regular service) but it could be an opportunity given the vastness of Ontario's north and the number of remote communities who may benefit from the service.

Some people think better highway connections to the south are a good thing. They are in terms of access to Toronto, but from a freight transportation standpoint it does little for the north... better connections to Toronto? Well, then there's little need to have northern bases for freight.

My only concern is that it would take longer. Imagine telling citizens of a remote community that what used to take an hour will now take a day.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

My only concern is that it would take longer. Imagine telling citizens of a remote community that what used to take an hour will now take a day.

What "used to take an hour" though?

Communities that rely on ice roads for the majority of their freight need not so much, with airships.

We can't build full highways to all these places. It just doesn't make economic or financial sense.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

What "used to take an hour" though?

Communities that rely on ice roads for the majority of their freight need not so much, with airships.

We can't build full highways to all these places. It just doesn't make economic or financial sense.

Would regular planes still serve those communities for passengers?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Would regular planes still serve those communities for passengers?

From my knowledge, it's more of a cargo issue than one of passenger-transport.

And the remote airports are limited in number and capacity.

[Loco101]

There are many things that I can think but to pick a couple:

A freeway across Northern Ontario that is more efficient and reduces distance and travel times.

Make Lake Temagami a National Park of Canada.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

From my knowledge, it's more of a cargo issue than one of passenger-transport.

And the remote airports are limited in number and capacity.

That would make more sense. Does something like this already exist somewhere?

Originally Posted by Loco101

There are many things that I can think but to pick a couple:

A freeway across Northern Ontario that is more efficient and reduces distance and travel times.

Make Lake Temagami a National Park of Canada.

I like both of them.

Which highway would you make the freeway?

What about a provincial park?

[swimmer_spe]

My fantasy would be a daily passenger train service between all major cities and Toronto/Winnipeg.

[Innsertnamehere]

lol that would make no sense given the distances.

Ideally I'd like to just see some significant population growth in the area. Having Sudbury and Thunder Bay be closer to a London or Windsor sized city, North Bay and Sault Ste Marie closer to Peterborough or Brantford, etc.

Plus some healthier downtowns and better highway connections of some sort.

If you were to really go off the deep end, give each city an indoor tropical water park or something to help stave off the long winters.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

lol that would make no sense given the distances.

Ideally I'd like to just see some significant population growth in the area. Having Sudbury and Thunder Bay be closer to a London or Windsor sized city, North Bay and Sault Ste Marie closer to Peterborough or Brantford, etc.

Plus some healthier downtowns and better highway connections of some sort.

If you were to really go off the deep end, give each city an indoor tropical water park or something to help stave off the long winters.

What makes no sense?
Why?

[thewave46]

Hmm...

A turnover of people, mostly, if I had the dream. I guess that's coming regardless, if it doesn't end up with decline.

The place has mostly existed in a 1980s-era time bubble, culture-wise. Which makes for nice, complacent people and easy living, but it lends itself to a certain stagnant feeling. The bigger centres less so, the smaller ones....yeesh.

You either have locals who've been in places forever and with all the worldliness of those who only make an occasional trip to Cuba/Dominican, or returnees who didn't like the hustle elsewhere. It's...stifling at times.

People here seem to think there's some sort of super-program/infrastructure/government plan that could just somehow change the culture of the place. If that's the goal, then Bond villain style Death Ray project.

[thewave46]

It's easy to pick one thing and make a goal out of it, because that's something one can measure and say "I was successful" or not.

The more interesting bit (and more pertinent to the discussion IMO) is if the culture of the place becomes better. That leads to more interesting avenues with what a place becomes.

A lot of the flavour of the towns/cities of Northern Ontario comes from the historical communities that made the place their bit of home. The intermixing/fusion of communities under harsh conditions made life what it was and gave things the legacy they had.

The homogenization led to their kids. Money and wealth led to suburbia and Wal-Mart. There's a reason why the arena/casino next to the municipal dump in Sudbury concept made it as far as it did and people bemoan the fact that it was cancelled.

Want to re-imagine Northern Ontario? Change the people. It's just hard to do when the place is hostile/opportunities are scarce and resentful of newcomers.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by thewave46

People here seem to think there's some sort of super-program/infrastructure/government plan that could just somehow change the culture of the place. If that's the goal, then Bond villain style Death Ray project.

The bonus opportunity being the ability to hold the world ransom...

• Video Link

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

It's easy to pick one thing and make a goal out of it, because that's something one can measure and say "I was successful" or not.

The more interesting bit (and more pertinent to the discussion IMO) is if the culture of the place becomes better. That leads to more interesting avenues with what a place becomes.

A lot of the flavour of the towns/cities of Northern Ontario comes from the historical communities that made the place their bit of home. The intermixing/fusion of communities under harsh conditions made life what it was and gave things the legacy they had.

The homogenization led to their kids. Money and wealth led to suburbia and Wal-Mart. There's a reason why the arena/casino next to the municipal dump in Sudbury concept made it as far as it did and people bemoan the fact that it was cancelled.

Want to re-imagine Northern Ontario? Change the people. It's just hard to do when the place is hostile/opportunities are scarce and resentful of newcomers.

Interesting how you say that. That is exactly how I feel about Alberta.

I find most people care about things that are bad everyone. Things like homelessness, rough roads, high prices, etc. However, don't you dare suggest that the fix comes from them.

The Arena fiasco was a joke. The problem is, people here are starved to be noticed from the province that any suggestion of getting the province or federal money to flow, regardless of how bad an idea it is will gain traction.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Interesting how you say that. That is exactly how I feel about Alberta.

I find most people care about things that are bad everyone. Things like homelessness, rough roads, high prices, etc. However, don't you dare suggest that the fix comes from them.

The Arena fiasco was a joke. The problem is, people here are starved to be noticed from the province that any suggestion of getting the province or federal money to flow, regardless of how bad an idea it is will gain traction.

Where in Alberta? Was it Calgary/Edmonton or small towns?

The province/feds had nothing to do with the arena proposal. That was city money, period. The locals almost exclusively drove that conversation, and the underlying subtext to that was: "I want to live in an oversized suburban paradise, go to Costco/Walmart and drive everywhere."

Like I said, Northern Ontario is hostile to anything outside the existing mantra. Which leads to pushing a lot of interesting possibilities away. The economy isn't so strong/so creative as to draw a lot of new people with new views in. Oh well. We live with decline in large portions of it.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

lol that would make no sense given the distances.

Ideally I'd like to just see some significant population growth in the area. Having Sudbury and Thunder Bay be closer to a London or Windsor sized city, North Bay and Sault Ste Marie closer to Peterborough or Brantford, etc..

Larger population centres would certainly be welcome. Where, exactly, is something I always sort of flip-flop on depending on mood. A more populous Timmins would be neat, as would somewhere like Wawa, just to have something more in-between the Soo and Thunder Bay. Otherwise, having a larger North Bay or Sudbury would be more reasonable and more realistic, IMO. Gaining that heft and having more of a proper larger urban centre would make Northern Ontario more appealing.

Originally Posted by thewave46

Want to re-imagine Northern Ontario? Change the people. It's just hard to do when the place is hostile/opportunities are scarce and resentful of newcomers.

I've often said that Northern Ontario and the Maritimes are similar in many ways and this is no exception. Population growth and an influx of newcomers will be seen with resentment in some but will overall be better for the region in the long-run. Locals can deal with that.

[F. Lionel]

The RNIP program is going to start addressing the bringing in of outsiders to the larger communities. Thunder Bay has been driving the program more than any other place that is currently involved across ALL the communities involved. The planned expansion of the RNIP to the broader near communities to TBay is also going start really changing the conversation.

There are lots of people in the North who are visionary and have plans; people who want to build something new and long lasting for our future. Right now those voices are, in some cases, far apart and quiet. The culture in the north is changing - 30 years ago a Festival of Colour would have been a niche event at the multicultural centre. Now its a fairly large event at Marina Park. An ethnic grocery meant Italian, Finn, or Eastern European. Now it also means Indian, South Asian, Chinese, or African. There is a market to support these ventures as well. There are dozens of ethnic restaurants throughout the city of TBay and, even, along the north shore.

Yes - there is a lot of people who are afraid of change. There are groups who do not want to acknowledge that things are not the same as they were 30 years ago. People want the north to be the place they grew up and should always stay the same because that's comfortable. They are being forced to recognize that what this place was can't work anymore. They are being forced to face some very uncomfortable truths about their institutions, their communities, their services and service providers. Changes aren't just coming... the changes are happening. It is going to be unpleasant but it will be positive for everyone.

If I have some dreams for the north?

ScreamingViking's idea for a Zepplin port in Thunder Bay with cargo links to the north would be incredible.

Massive expansion of the Waterfront complex in Thunder Bay filling from the Pool 6 lands to the Richardson Elevator with pedestrian crossings of the tracks, a new underpass at the north end, road link to Central Avenue, 4 or 5 more condo complexes around the Manitoba Pool 2 elevator, a waterfront dog park, Thermea Spa-type complex, Art Gallery, Science North, and complete Cruise Ship Terminal that includes a proper Border Services port of entry complex. And, while we are at it, a Grain Industry Learning Centre with a permanently moored laker at Manitoba Pool 3.

Complete twinning of the highway 17 corridor from Upsala to Rossport, with controlled access from Sistonen's Corner all the way to MacKenzie Station Road.

40k more people in Thunder Bay, 3k more in Dorion/Nipigon/Red Rock, 3K more in Atikokan, 5k in Wawa, 20K more in the Soo.

Alternative highway access across the Nipigon River at Cameron Falls.

Create a new National Park from Sleeping Giant Provincial Park, the Black Bay peninsula, the Casque Isles and Slate Islands to supplement the Marine Conservation Area.