CHICAGO | General Discussions

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Stockerzzz

...
Red Line Chicago Ave beating

Man, this sort of stuff has to stop. My father was born in Brooklyn, where my grandfather and grandmother met, married, and had him. The only reason they left was that my grandmother was mugged on the subway twice in a six-month period and just couldn't handle that sort of environment. They moved to Florida for a bit, then settled in Annapolis, where my father eventually met my mother and had much less crime than Red Hook, Brooklyn, of the 1950s did.

Crime in general needs to get checked in Chicago to have any hope of keeping people here, but especially things like this in popular areas frequented by tourists and normally non-criminal citizens.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by emathias

Man, this sort of stuff has to stop. My father was born in Brooklyn, where my grandfather and grandmother met, married, and had him. The only reason they left was that my grandmother was mugged on the subway twice in a six-month period and just couldn't handle that sort of environment. They moved to Florida for a bit, then settled in Annapolis, where my father eventually met my mother and had much less crime than Red Hook, Brooklyn, of the 1950s did.

Crime in general needs to get checked in Chicago to have any hope of keeping people here, but especially things like this in popular areas frequented by tourists and normally non-criminal citizens.

And how are we supposed to stop these crimes when practically every effort made is at constant risk of being labeled “racial profiling”?

Every damn thing cops do is being scrutinized to death, they can’t even do their jobs without looking over their shoulders, with a bunch of whack job activists out there constantly monitoring them for any and all “inappropriate” conduct, never mind the conduct of the assholes who are perpetrators of crime on a daily basis.

[SIGSEGV]

If UChicago can afford to place a security guard with a walkie talkie at every intersection, the mag mile can afford to put guards at key intersections and subway stops as well. They could double as tourists ambassadors as well. Whether the cops would show up in a reasonable amount of time is a different question.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

If UChicago can afford to place a security guard with a walkie talkie at every intersection, the mag mile can afford to put guards at key intersections and subway stops as well. They could double as tourists ambassadors as well. Whether the cops would show up in a reasonable amount of time is a different question.

There are officers at every Mag Mile intersection - I think it's not crazy to think that 4-8 more for the Near North stations should be part of that.

[The Pimp]

Originally Posted by maru2501

it did look good on tv a couple of times during the game. I didn't screen-shot it

Both NEMA and Vista looked impressive from the stands during the game. $400 tickets down the tubes. Parkey is a douchebag!

[maru2501]

Originally Posted by The Pimp

Both NEMA and Vista looked impressive from the stands during the game. $400 tickets down the tubes. Parkey is a douchebag!

NFL official scoring has changed it to a blocked kick, FYI

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Every damn thing cops do is being scrutinized to death, they can’t even do their jobs without looking over their shoulders, with a bunch of whack job activists out there constantly monitoring them for any and all “inappropriate” conduct, never mind the conduct of the assholes who are perpetrators of crime on a daily basis.

This is certainly how the police tell it, but I haven't really seen any evidence to back it up. What are the examples of cops being "scrutinized to death" to the point they can't do their jobs? Why is it that cops in other cities seem to do their jobs just fine?

What I see is a few cops finally being held accountable for their actions (Van Dyke, Burge and others), constantly malfunctioning dash-cams, fighting a consent decree, hundreds of millions paid out in wrongful death cases, and massive overtime schemes.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

This is certainly how the police tell it, but I haven't really seen any evidence to back it up. What are the examples of cops being "scrutinized to death" to the point they can't do their jobs? Why is it that cops in other cities seem to do their jobs just fine?

If that's how the Police tell it, then we should listen to them. Can't you tell when you are being "overly scrutinized?" And cops in other cities aren't doing "just fine", this is a universal sentiment since pro-criminal special interest groups have been out in full force villainizing them for the actions of a few bad apples.

What I see is a few cops finally being held accountable for their actions (Van Dyke, Burge and others), constantly malfunctioning dash-cams, fighting a consent decree, hundreds of millions paid out in wrongful death cases, and massive overtime schemes.

No, you're just punishing people who don't deserve it. Leave the rest of the cops alone for doing their jobs faithfully and lawfully. Those wrongful death cases aren't going to go away due to cameras, they will probably increase because you now have a whole industry of money-hungry lawyers looking for any way to make a killing off of other people's human errors. Look at what has happened with Medical malpractice over the past few decades.

If you really care about reducing payouts due to cop "accountability", here are the steps:

1. Make it less likely that you will be involved in an altercation with police. Hmmmm how do we do that? Hmmmmmm lets see here.....Oh I know---don't commit crime! I really wish Al Sharpton would sometimes offer that little suggestion, but he's too busy making money and staying relevant on the TV networks pointing fingers all day to the delight of his chorus of fans.

2. Tort reform. Stop letting greedy lawyers get obscene $30 million settlements for their clients left and right every time something bad happens --whether it be Med Mal, Insurance Mal, Cop screw ups, etc etc. Get rid of the perverse incentives that allow us to make money off of humanity's lack of being perfect.

There you go. I know, you probably disagree with me....

[SIGSEGV]

I'll just leave this here... https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/b...of-silence-117

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

If that's how the Police tell it, then we should listen to them.

So, nobody can present evidence but we should blindly believe the Fraternal Order of Police? They have never lied before, have they?

False Confession Capital
Burge Torture and Cover-up
Laquan McDonald Cover-up

pro-criminal special interest groups

This isn't a thing that exists.

For someone who talks so much about how "culture" is a national problem, you seem unworried about the CPD's history (culture) of torture and cover-ups. If cops lie to cover-up for a colleague (a crime) and the FOP supports that person, are they considered a pro-criminal special interest group in your mind? How are they different from a street gang?

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

hing that exists.

For someone who talks so much about how "culture" is a national problem, you seem unworried about the CPD's history (culture) of torture and cover-ups.

^ Those cover ups were terrible. People who do such terrible things belong in jail. For a long time. That's what they got.

But ultimately, I think criminals are a far greater threat to our civilization than the small proportion of police who are bad apples.

I don't support punitive legislation which appeals to certain groups of people that ends up tying cops' hands behind their backs. I want crime fighters to be at liberty to stop scumbags from mugging people on subways, pushing old ladies down stairs, scaring the public at their whim, carjacking, breaking into homes and stores, and murdering people. So those are my priorities.

[Rooster slayer]

Good stuff, but umm yeah, South loop needs some more high density towers. First pic says it all.

[BonoboZill4]

Originally Posted by Rooster slayer

Good stuff, but umm yeah, South loop needs some more high density towers. First pic says it all.

True, but 20 years ago there was basically nothing there(unless we include Printer's Row into the equation. Another 20 years and it'll be a lot closer to being at Streeterville's density. It can't ever reach the Loop's density though with how much land Dearborn park I and II take sadly...

The transformation since 2000 is basically from no skyline to being as big as any skyline outside of the top 5 cities in the US by population

[harryc]

Originally Posted by BonoboZill4

True, but 20 years ago there was basically nothing there(unless we include Printer's Row into the equation. Another 20 years and it'll be a lot closer to being at Streeterville's density. It can't ever reach the Loop's density though with how much land Dearborn park I and II take sadly...

The transformation since 2000 is basically from no skyline to being as big as any skyline outside of the top 5 cities in the US by population

You should have been hanging there in the late '70s , most memorable quote "those aren't firecrackers"

[BonoboZill4]

Originally Posted by harryc

You should have been hanging there in the late '70s , most memorable quote "those aren't firecrackers"

My girlfriend makes comments like that all the time when I'm at her parent's place in Back of the Yards though

Also, given the fact that Capone's old hotel was located where the Lex is today, that doesn't completely surprise me. All the way up until the 70s is pretty crazy though!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by BonoboZill4

The transformation since 2000 is basically from no skyline to being as big as any skyline outside of the top 5 cities in the US by population

not quite.

if 1000M and NEMA II are eventually built to their anticipated heights (and that's still a big "IF"), that would give the south loop four towers over 700' tall.

there are currently 10 US cities that have more than four towers over 700' tall.


US cities ranked by # of skyscrapers >700' (including U/C):

1. new york - 81*
2. chicago - 25
3. houston - 11
4. los angeles - 9
5. philadelphia - 7
6. miami - 6
7. san francisco - 5
8. atlanta - 5
9. seattle - 5
10. dallas - 5
11. minneapolis - 3
12. boston - 3
13. cleveland - 2
14. detroit - 2
15. charlotte - 2
16. pittsburgh - 2
17. denver - 2
18. oklahoma city - 1
19. indianapolis - 1
20. mobile - 1
21. las vegas - 1
22. atlantic city - 1

(*) includes four >700' towers located across the hudson in jersey city.


but with four towers >700', the south loop would have a taller skyline than any other midwest city outside of chicago itself.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by Rooster slayer

Good stuff, but umm yeah, South loop needs some more high density towers. First pic says it all.

The angle of the pic makes it appear more sparse than it really is. There are a bunch of 300-400 footers behind Essex.

Of course, adding another 5-10 wouldn't hurt.

[BonoboZill4]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not quite.

if 1000M and NEMA II are eventually built to their anticipated heights (and that's still a big "IF"), that would give the south loop four towers over 700' tall.

there are currently 10 US cities that have more than four towers over 700' tall.


US cities ranked by # of skyscrapers >700' (including U/C):

1. new york - 81*
2. chicago - 25
3. houston - 11
4. los angeles - 9
5. philadelphia - 7
6. miami - 6
7. san francisco - 5
8. atlanta - 5
9. seattle - 5
10. dallas - 5
11. minneapolis - 3
12. boston - 3
13. cleveland - 2
14. detroit - 2
15. charlotte - 2
16. pittsburgh - 2
17. denver - 2
18. oklahoma city - 1
19. indianapolis - 1
20. mobile - 1
21. las vegas - 1
22. atlantic city - 1

(*) includes four >700' towers located across the hudson in jersey city.


but with four towers >700', the south loop would have a taller skyline than any other midwest city outside of chicago itself.

I didn't mean so much as raw height, but overall density and number of high rises, but seeing this list, makes me think I'm probably still wrong by a good chunk.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Those cover ups were terrible. People who do such terrible things belong in jail. For a long time. That's what they got.

You agree those things were terrible, but are against further oversight of the CPD and blindly trust whatever they say. Do you see how those are contradictory statements?

How would we have reasonably found out about the wrongdoing without the same people you lament holding them accountable? I can imagine you in the 1990s referring to people suing Burge as "money-hungry lawyers looking for any way to make a killing off of other people's human errors". In reality, they uncovered decades of systematic torture and false confessions.

Originally Posted by the urban politician

But ultimately, I think criminals are a far greater threat to our civilization than the small proportion of police who are bad apples.

How many cops knew about the Burge torture and said nothing? How many cops signed off on the Jason Van Dyke lies? How many cops knew Ronald Watts was framing people?

Either way, the DOJ disagrees with you. They refers to a "pattern or practice" of violating 4th Amendment rights:

• CPD’s pattern or practice of unreasonable force includes shooting at fleeing suspects who present no immediate threat
• CPD’s pattern or practice of unreasonable force includes firing at vehicles without justification
• CPD officers exhibit poor discipline in discharging weapon
• CPD officers make tactical decisions that unnecessarily increase the risk of deadly encounters

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I want crime fighters to be at liberty to stop scumbags from mugging people on subways, pushing old ladies down stairs, scaring the public at their whim, carjacking, breaking into homes and stores, and murdering people. So those are my priorities.

What laws or oversight stop this from happening today? Please be specific.

[Knightwing]

Originally Posted by Rooster slayer

Good stuff, but umm yeah, South loop needs some more high density towers. First pic says it all.

Agreed. Towers need to expand southward and westward. There's virtually nothing south of Jackson and west of State St.