Broadway Corridor Development Plan & Project Updates

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The most western part was always more pleasant despite being six lanes, long before the bump outs were added for the sidewalk. The NW corner of Broadway and Cambie may be slightly better because of the trees but it still not anywhere someone wants to linger or stroll.

That's just not true, West Broadway where these changes are proposed is 6+1 travel lanes (+1 for left turn lanes), with the outer lanes being flexible off-peak parking on-peak travel lanes. West Broadway between Macdonald and Alma is 4 travel lanes with dedicated shoulder parking in some areas (and not at intersections). You might not realise it, but the proposed changes are literally to make West Broadway like between Alma and Macdonald.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'm counting both sides of Broadway here. But yeah, my math is wrong: as per the article, status quo is ~2.5m of sidewalk on one side, and ~3m on the other side, for ~5.5 total; option 1 would expand that to ~7 on each side - plus the 1.5 setback on each side - for 17m total; just the setback gets you 8.5m. So that's actually +11.5m against +3m. My bad.

309% of the existing walking space for everybody using Broadway... or 154% for everybody and 155% for the fraction that bike there? Seems like a foregone conclusion.

Maybe I'm not comprehending the article, but the status quo sidewalk image shows sidewalks that are 5 metres on both sides. So aren't we looking at +7 metres vs. +3? That would be +70% and +30%. Obviously the reduced pedestrian space would be noticed, but as Changing City pointed out the bike lane buffer between the travel lanes and the sidewalk may also improve the pedestrian experience.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There could be, but then you've got a bus waiting to turn left and a car/truck/etc waiting to turn right, and then you're just as gridlocked as if you'd never banned left turns.

I am sure this could be fixed with creative signaling. If a sensor detected a bus waiting to turn left it could give that one direction of traffic an advanced green until the bus clears the intersection.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Maybe I'm not comprehending the article, but the status quo sidewalk image shows sidewalks that are 5 metres on both sides. So aren't we looking at +7 metres vs. +3? That would be +70% and +30%. Obviously the reduced pedestrian space would be noticed, but as Changing City pointed out the bike lane buffer between the travel lanes and the sidewalk may also improve the pedestrian experience.

I am sure this could be fixed with creative signaling. If a sensor detected a bus waiting to turn left it could give that one direction of traffic an advanced green until the bus clears the intersection.

Before and after, just for reference. The new sidewalk itself is 5m on each side, that's correct, but when you add the 2m of patios and greenery (which itself is a buffer), then you've got 7m. If it's just the setback, maybe half of it goes to a slightly-smaller buffer and we gain almost no sidewalk.

Using tech to compensate for bad physics/geometry rarely ends well (the 737 Max and Hyperloops being the most egregious recent examples).
In this case, a regular bus priority signal won't work because there's no dedicated lane: a driver going straight in the left lane ahead of the bus would screw up the whole plan. So the alternative would be to stop all traffic once the bus pulls up at the light - which'd likely be a detriment to both walking and biking - and then you've got the streetcar pitch all over again.

[GenWhy?]

What I didn't think about is that if they make these changes then the current rule of 5.5 metres from "back of curb" for new developments would no longer apply if they just go with 7 metres. The City will no longer likely expropriate land of private land owners. Unless they up it to 8.5 metres from back of curb. In that case the ROW is 33 metres along the whole road instead of just in sections, as it is now.

[madog222]

Mount Pleasant strata windup on the market. Very unique site with city streets on all four sides making a relatively easy strata + social housing development. 20 storeys allowed.

https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ada/can2012060

[GenWhy?]

Mayor has recused himself from voting on the Broadway vote today.

[Steven Corcoran]

Any update on the policy vote today? Which option did they choose?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Steven Corcoran

Any update on the policy vote today? Which option did they choose?

Still ongoing, LOTS of speakers for the Broadway bike lanes.

https://twitter.com/VanCityClerk

So far:

Council severed the rate of change policy from the main Broadway Plan Implementation and passed that item. Rate of change policy was not passed in the separate vote.

West end rezoning policy amendments passed with an amendment.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Think they'll vote on the bike lanes, or kick them down the road to next week?

[logan5]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/broa...olicy-rejected

[Steven Corcoran]

Originally Posted by logan5

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/broa...olicy-rejected

So there will be no absurd Rate of Change Policy. This has been one of the main questions my clients have. I have several listings in broadway area and no one has any idea how to price them because the city has no idea what they are doing right now with broadway. These are all off W broadway but in kits North highrise zone. So far I haven’t been able to get any concrete answers and it seems the plan is so restrictive for floor plates etc that building towers off of broadway itself will not be economical. At least with the tenant relocation policy.

[madog222]

Council in recess until tomorrow at 3pm.

[WarrenC12]

Staff is recommending against bike lanes and ABC aren't bike land advocates. All of these speakers are wasting their time.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Staff is recommending against bike lanes and ABC aren't bike land advocates. All of these speakers are wasting their time.

Unfortunately, I would guess you're probably right.

But that just underlines how incredible the show of support for a bike lane was. Almost 40 speakers and only 2 were against the lane. And the supporters of the lane were pretty varied: male, female, commuters, business owners, avid cyclists, environmental activists, old, and young. I was especially impressed with the barbershop owner who said half of his customers come by foot or bike, which is incredible considering Broadway's hostile bike and pedestrian environment.

Even if ABC votes against the bike lane, I hope the numerous testimonies about the failures of 10th and off-Broadway as cycling routes will trigger a re-think of those alternative routes. Just removing parking from one side of the street and adding modal filters at intersections would go a long way to improve them.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Steven Corcoran

So there will be no absurd Rate of Change Policy. This has been one of the main questions my clients have. I have several listings in broadway area and no one has any idea how to price them because the city has no idea what they are doing right now with broadway. These are all off W broadway but in kits North highrise zone. So far I haven’t been able to get any concrete answers and it seems the plan is so restrictive for floor plates etc that building towers off of broadway itself will not be economical. At least with the tenant relocation policy.

It seems to be economical for Clients like mine that have owned the land for quite a while and are not buying at inflated re-sale prices. I'd just let them know to apply with an enquiry immediately to get in the queue otherwise they are SOL.

[GenWhy?]

I'd also argue voting for Staff's recommendation isn't necessarily a "vote against bike lanes".

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Unfortunately, I would guess you're probably right.

But that just underlines how incredible the show of support for a bike lane was. Almost 40 speakers and only 2 were against the lane. And the supporters of the lane were pretty varied: male, female, commuters, business owners, avid cyclists, environmental activists, old, and young. I was especially impressed with the barbershop owner who said half of his customers come by foot or bike, which is incredible considering Broadway's hostile bike and pedestrian environment.

Even if ABC votes against the bike lane, I hope the numerous testimonies about the failures of 10th and off-Broadway as cycling routes will trigger a re-think of those alternative routes. Just removing parking from one side of the street and adding modal filters at intersections would go a long way to improve them.

I think you're a little too deep in the cyclist echo chamber.

Main roads can't be all things to all people.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I'd also argue voting for Staff's recommendation isn't necessarily a "vote against bike lanes".

No, but it does mean there won't be lanes for at least five years and probably more. Staff wants to get the street and subway fully operational and study traffic patterns before considering bike lanes again in the future.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think you're a little too deep in the cyclist echo chamber.

Main roads can't be all things to all people.

I watched the council meeting and only two people spoke in favor of option one. I'm just reporting what other people said at the meeting. And the "hostile environment" piece came from the city staff member who mentioned that many people said during the Broadway Plan consultations that they avoided shopping, eating, walking, and cycling on Broadway because it's a miserable place to be.

The city staff member spoke time and again during his presentation and the subsequent question period about the numerous improvements made to the cycling infrastructure on 10th. He seemed to think that these routes which are among the few east-west routes in the city are perfectly adequate as-is. But then a number of respondents who bike the corridor everyday on their way to work on Broadway or UBC talked about how 10th is unsafe, how it has more accidents than any other bike route in the city, and how they sometimes take the bus instead because they hate the route. I am hopeful that the gap between the city's appraisal of 10th and off-Broadway as cycle routes and the on the ground experience of cyclists was closed last night.

[GenWhy?]

The City Staff presentations and talking points / responses were very.. odd and all over the place / contradictory at times.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Staff is recommending against bike lanes and ABC aren't bike land advocates. All of these speakers are wasting their time.

I'm personally not going to jump to any conclusions. Everyone said ABC were NIMBY obstructionists, but they soundly rejected any rate of change policy for Broadway as proposed by staff. Perhaps they're also not as anti bike lane as people might think?

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

The city staff member spoke time and again during his presentation and the subsequent question period about the numerous improvements made to the cycling infrastructure on 10th. He seemed to think that these routes which are among the few east-west routes in the city are perfectly adequate as-is. But then a number of respondents who bike the corridor everyday on their way to work on Broadway or UBC talked about how 10th is unsafe, how it has more accidents than any other bike route in the city, and how they sometimes take the bus instead because they hate the route. I am hopeful that the gap between the city's appraisal of 10th and off-Broadway as cycle routes and the on the ground experience of cyclists was closed last night.

IMO the "10th is unsafe because look at how many accidents it has" seemed to me like a bit of motivated reasoning. The most popular bike route in the city is going to have the most accidents, all else being equal. I'm still of the opinion that they probably are adequate as east-west routes, but the Broadway rebuild isn't really meant to accomplish an east-west route as proposed, it's more to provide a last leg connection to a commercial and transit zone. IMO not necessarily needed, but maybe it's nice to have.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

The City Staff presentations and talking points / responses were very.. odd and all over the place / contradictory at times.

As far as I can tell the city staff position is "It seems too hard and we don't have enough time so we don't want to do it."