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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 2:04 AM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softee View Post
^ Where's London, Ontario in that Canadian list?
Where are Laval and Repentigny?
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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 3:02 AM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Speak for yourself. And your comment was 100% meant to insult despite your attempt to back pedal.
Take it as an insult if you want idgaf. And thats not back pedalling thats just me softening the "blow" for you snowflakes out there.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 3:11 AM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post
The Vancouver CMA has at least triple the number of what is shown here. Probably closer to quadruple the amount. The crane amount is down from 200 a couple of years ago, but the 42 number is totally inaccurate.
Yeah, it’s almost comically inaccurate.

It is actually funny how much metro Van now seems to fly under the radar on this and other construction forums. Metro Van forum members are pretty awful at civic boasting compared to those in Toronto that’s for sure.

For example I don’t think Metro-Van has a single member that adds drawings or even updates the official lists.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 4:03 AM
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 4:13 AM
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Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
No matter how much Torontonians wish they were in the us theyr are still in Canada last I checked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
With no slight intended to our American cousins, I don't think you'll find a large number of Torontonians wishing their City were on the other side of the border. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Hey man im not shaming you guys. Most of us sometimes wish we were something we're not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Speak for yourself. And your comment was 100% meant to insult despite your attempt to back pedal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Take it as an insult if you want idgaf. And thats not back pedalling thats just me softening the "blow" for you snowflakes out there.
Hmm... very interesting exchange. First, someone makes a speculative claim about the desires of a large group of other people, then when a member of that group states that the claim isn't true, the person assures them that it's ok for the claim to be true, which assumes that the objection was based on displeasure with the claim rather than a genuine belief in its inaccuracy. Then when a third person also objects, pointing out that no one can know what others are thinking, the first person continues the speculation by assuming that all the objections were due to the displeasure of being found out (it came as a "blow") rather than genuine disagreement.

So basically, assume to know what others are thinking, then counter any objections by assuming them to be based on the displeasure with being found out. Seems like the perfect, non-falsifiable way of constructing an identity for an opposing group.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 5:10 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Take it as an insult if you want idgaf. And thats not back pedalling thats just me softening the "blow" for you snowflakes out there.
And this is what we end up with when parents never say 'NO' to their children. They become nightmare adults who NEVER admit when they're out of line because it's NEVER their fault. The default is always to double down on the insults and become even more toxic because 'sorry' is not in their wheel house.

Chronologically, you're an adult.
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Last edited by isaidso; Jun 26, 2021 at 5:36 PM.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 5:20 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giallo View Post
The Vancouver CMA has at least triple the number of what is shown here. Probably closer to quadruple the amount. The crane amount is down from 200 a couple of years ago, but the 42 number is totally inaccurate.
It did seem awfully low. Emporis is sometimes way off the actual numbers so stopped using it about 10 years ago. Using 12 floors as a cut off always struck me as odd too.
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World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 5:41 PM
daniel daniel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Most of those look so low, 12 floors really isn't very much so having large cities with millions of people have only twenty or thirty such buildings under construction seems like nothing.
I suppose this makes sense because of the American style of having a skyscraper area in the centre and almost everything else be low rise, but it is still jarring.

For comparison I tried doing this in Tel Aviv from my country where 12 floors is an average apartment building that could go up all over the metro:
Tel Aviv municipal borders (466K population): 92
Tel Aviv metro (4.1M population): 493
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 6:08 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel View Post
Most of those look so low, 12 floors really isn't very much so having large cities with millions of people have only twenty or thirty such buildings under construction seems like nothing.
I suppose this makes sense because of the American style of having a skyscraper area in the centre and almost everything else be low rise, but it is still jarring.

For comparison I tried doing this in Tel Aviv from my country where 12 floors is an average apartment building that could go up all over the metro:
Tel Aviv municipal borders (466K population): 92
Tel Aviv metro (4.1M population): 493
That's because Tel Aviv is most multi-family housing. The U.S. puts most of its housing into low density, single family housing suburbs, even in fast growing areas.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 7:21 PM
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As for this debate over whether MSA or CSA numbers more accurately describe SLC, SLC is in a unique situation. I can’t think of another metro with a larger disparity between its CSA and MSA figures. The fact of the matter is, every American metropolis is different, and there are no perfectly defined borders that can be used to determine where exactly the edge of suburbia lies and which populations should or shouldn’t count as part of the metro.

For example, neither the MSA nor the CSA definitions work well for my current city (Denver). One excludes Boulder, which is obviously part of the metropolis; the other includes Boulder but also includes a bunch of far-off towns which are obviously not part of the metropolis. The true population of this metro is somewhere in between.

As is the case with SLC.

I’ve spent much time in that town, having been a truck driver with a dedicated route based out of SLC (Costco distribution center), which meant I spent every other night there and had countless back-hauls that led to seemingly innumerable points within the metropolis - and having visited at least once a year all throughout my life since childhood, because my family is from Sandy and most of my family still lives there. Even in my current job as a flatbed driver I’ve picked up countless loads from Interstate Brick in West Jordan, delivered countless loads to the IFA DC on West 1700 South, etc, etc, etc. I know the town well. I know many towns well.

I think all of you on either side of the “how big is SLC” debate are kidding yourselves. I think it’s obvious SLC isn’t nearly as large or prominent as its CSA peers such as St Louis or Pittsburgh. It doesn’t feel that way, on the ground, within those towns, at all; nor does it feel that way in terms of the cultural, historical and economic gravitational pull those towns exert within the American collective consciousness. It’s equally obvious SLC is far larger and more prominent than its MSA peers such as Louisville or Buffalo. Those cities don’t belong in the same conversation with SLC.

It’s somewhere in between. And unfortunately a number in between those vastly disparate CSA and MSA figures - a number that could be used to accurately rank SLC among its peers - doesn’t exist. More than any other metropolis I can think of, SLC doesn’t have a definitive size that will work within the realm of this forum and its home-town-boosting, city-vs-city culture. There just isn’t a good, useful number for poor SLC.

Edit: I propose we just use SLC’s CSA figure when we’re making comparisons, and call it good. I mean, close enough. Otherwise we’re just going to keep getting hung up on this.

Last edited by Sam Hill; Jun 26, 2021 at 7:43 PM.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 7:35 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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Ya, I can think of 10 currently under construction in London.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 8:06 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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In some cities, highrises are only allowed in a few places. In my area, the vast majority of new multifamily housing is woodframes, which can get to 85' and are more often around 65'.

I undercounted Seattle previously...now I'm counting 27...23 in greater Downtown, 4 in the U District.

Convention center (ballroom ceiling is over 200' as rooms are in a tall stack)
1200 Stewart x2
Holland x2
Fairview & Denny SE corner
Onni Fairview & Denny x2
800 John
Dexter Station x2
Guitar Center block
Firestone site
600 Wall
2000 Third
303 Battery
707 Terry x2
Ovation x2
800 Columbia
Olympic Tower
Minor & Madison
The Standard x2
4126 12th
4515 Brooklyn

Five others shored and dug holes but stopped, including four that are related. All are working on permits to restart.

Two others are underway below-ground as part of the convention center project, but the towers will be built on pads by someone else.

A few others are fenced and in prep at some level.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 8:33 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Hmm... very interesting exchange. First, someone makes a speculative claim about the desires of a large group of other people, then when a member of that group states that the claim isn't true, the person assures them that it's ok for the claim to be true, which assumes that the objection was based on displeasure with the claim rather than a genuine belief in its inaccuracy. Then when a third person also objects, pointing out that no one can know what others are thinking, the first person continues the speculation by assuming that all the objections were due to the displeasure of being found out (it came as a "blow") rather than genuine disagreement.

So basically, assume to know what others are thinking, then counter any objections by assuming them to be based on the displeasure with being found out. Seems like the perfect, non-falsifiable way of constructing an identity for an opposing group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
And this is what we end up with when parents never say 'NO' to their children. They become nightmare adults who NEVER admit when they're out of line because it's NEVER their fault. The default is always to double down on the insults and become even more toxic because 'sorry' is not in their wheel house.

Chronologically, you're an adult.
Jeez im getting proper roasted arent I

At least im not the dumbass who put Toronto on a list of American cities. And im not sure what I should be apologizing for.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 8:46 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
Jeez im getting proper roasted arent I

At least im not the dumbass who put Toronto on a list of American cities. And im not sure what I should be apologizing for.
Again with the insults. Stop projecting.

American could be taken to mean many things depending upon your cultural context and understanding of the meaning of the word, from least to most expansive:

1. United States of America (common to most people in the United States)
2. Anglophone North America (common to a subsection of those in Canada, both Anglophone and Francophone)
3. Anglophone and Francophone North America (common to Canadians generally)
4. Geographic North America (inclusive of Hispanophone areas, sometimes including sometimes excluding Central America - not common that I’ve seen but perhaps in Mexico you might see this more than other places?)
5. All of North, Central, and South America, including all language areas above as well as Lusophone and others (Quechua, etc.). e.g. “The Americas” (common in all Hispanophone and Lusophone language areas).

I for one assumed OP meant one of the first 4 categories, probably #3.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:02 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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True...if you understand English, "America" can mean a lot of things. Our nickname doesn't mean other countries can't use it too.

In the past, some people have been confused by the "of America" thing. If we'd said "United States of Earth" they'd think we claimed that too.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:05 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Nice try dumbass but he said "US cities" not American.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:12 PM
mhays mhays is offline
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This thread specifically says "North America."
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:13 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by c. View Post
i occasionally look at the toronto city compilation thread. Absolutely amazing how much is going on there. I'm curious how this compares to new york or other cities in north america.

The stats on skyscrapers are easy enough to find here and on emporis. But i'm curious too about any kind of urban (as opposed to rural or suburban) development.
And the actual, still unedited post, specifies North America.

Nice try, Donny Darko.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:16 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Wrong again. Heres the post I was talking about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Nice try, dumbass.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 9:18 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
As for this debate over whether MSA or CSA numbers more accurately describe SLC, SLC is in a unique situation. I can’t think of another metro with a larger disparity between its CSA and MSA figures. The fact of the matter is, every American metropolis is different, and there are no perfectly defined borders that can be used to determine where exactly the edge of suburbia lies and which populations should or shouldn’t count as part of the metro.

For example, neither the MSA nor the CSA definitions work well for my current city (Denver). One excludes Boulder, which is obviously part of the metropolis; the other includes Boulder but also includes a bunch of far-off towns which are obviously not part of the metropolis. The true population of this metro is somewhere in between.

As is the case with SLC.

I’ve spent much time in that town, having been a truck driver with a dedicated route based out of SLC (Costco distribution center), which meant I spent every other night there and had countless back-hauls that led to seemingly innumerable points within the metropolis - and having visited at least once a year all throughout my life since childhood, because my family is from Sandy and most of my family still lives there. Even in my current job as a flatbed driver I’ve picked up countless loads from Interstate Brick in West Jordan, delivered countless loads to the IFA DC on West 1700 South, etc, etc, etc. I know the town well. I know many towns well.

I think all of you on either side of the “how big is SLC” debate are kidding yourselves. I think it’s obvious SLC isn’t nearly as large or prominent as its CSA peers such as St Louis or Pittsburgh. It doesn’t feel that way, on the ground, within those towns, at all; nor does it feel that way in terms of the cultural, historical and economic gravitational pull those towns exert within the American collective consciousness. It’s equally obvious SLC is far larger and more prominent than its MSA peers such as Louisville or Buffalo. Those cities don’t belong in the same conversation with SLC.

It’s somewhere in between. And unfortunately a number in between those vastly disparate CSA and MSA figures - a number that could be used to accurately rank SLC among its peers - doesn’t exist. More than any other metropolis I can think of, SLC doesn’t have a definitive size that will work within the realm of this forum and its home-town-boosting, city-vs-city culture. There just isn’t a good, useful number for poor SLC.

Edit: I propose we just use SLC’s CSA figure when we’re making comparisons, and call it good. I mean, close enough. Otherwise we’re just going to keep getting hung up on this.
After I read this, I’m left with the nagging question about where exactly you disagreed with my previous lengthy post on this in this thread? To me, your post reads as an addendum to mine with contextual on the ground details and seems to largely agree with what my basic point was:

The region isn’t a single region yet, but is working toward becoming that. It’s fine using the MSA number and it is fine using the CSA number, just make sure you throw in some caution and explanation about the numbers you’re comparing.

Edit:

Don’t get me wrong. I thoroughly enjoyed your post and am glad to have read the perspective. It adds to my understanding, definitely. I just think the bolded part at first blush implies you disagreed with me as well (or didn’t see my comment, or thought I wasn’t taking the same middle approach... idk) but the context suggests you at least partially agreed with me and I’m hoping you can draw out your disagreements with me specifically (to the extent there are some) more explicitly so I can readjust my own thinking a bit more than I already have (in part due to you).

Further edit:

Yes, I know I’m overthinking it.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Jun 26, 2021 at 10:14 PM.
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