What's The Amount and Division of Your Province, State, or Territory's Metros.

[Razor]

I know that this is kind of nerdy even for SSP, but another thread/post prompted me to make this thread up.

Using the following metrics, how many metros and in what category do you have in your Province, State or Territory. I just came up with what I thought to be a reasonable cut off point for metro sizes across the board. I didn't want to get too ridiculous with too many categories either..Heck you can go upper medium, medium medium etc.,etc..It will be interesting to see some breakdowns on here. Also, if your metro straddles a State line for example, maybe the Primate side should count it, but put a disclaimer..So anyone doing up Quebec, Ottawa would include Gatineau for example, and Gatineau would be by itself in the Quebec count.If your city is merely a commuter city and not free standing (seperate city council), let the central city have it..Windsor, don't even try for Detroit! You too San Diego with Tijuana.

High Sufficiency= 100 to 500k
Small=500k-1million
Medium=1million to 4 million
Large=4 million to 10 million
Huge = 10 million on

I'll start:

ONTARIO

High Sufficiency= 10
Small=3
Medium=1 (straddling provincial lines doesn't affect the outcome)
Large=1
Huge = 0

Note: ON has a good number of Regional centres in the 100k-500k range with a few metros (not included) almost hitting that 100k milestone, and one small metro maybe few decades away from hitting the million mark.

[Steely Dan]

This can get somewhat messy because a lot of states have MSAs that straddle state lines. For the purposes of Illinois, I'm only including the portion of a given state-straddling MSA that's actually in Illinois. So taking metro St. Louis for example, I'm only counting it as a 400K metro for Illinois, because the vast bulk of it, including the central city, is across the river in Missouri.

However, in reality, the 2.8M people St. Louis MSA acts as THE major center for a broad swath of southern Illinois, despite the fact that it's mainly in a neighboring state.



Illinois:

High Sufficiency: 10
Small: 0
Medium: 0
Large: 1
Huge: 0

[craigs]

For California (MSAs)

High Sufficiency = 15
Small = 4
Medium = 4
Large = 2
Huge = 1

[Razor]

^ California was interesting to look at..Thanks for putting that together.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

This can get somewhat messy because a lot of states have MSAs that straddle state lines.

I think that straddling State lines are okay to include..Maybe the primate side should count it, and not the other., or mention it in your post like you did .Thanks..Going to edit my post.
I suspected Illinois to have that kind of breakdown. The Peoria and Rockfords of the world.

[Manitopiaaa]

In the U.S., the gap is probably better set at 2 million.

There's a big gap in the number of metros just above/just below it:

1,000,000-1,500,000: 16 metros
1,500,000-2,000,000: 4 metros
2,000,000-2,500,000: 11 metros
2,500,000-3,000,000: 7 metros

16 metros from 1 to 1.5 million, but that collapses to 4 in the 1.5 to 2 million range, before picking back up.

Also, 100,000 isn't high sufficiency. 100,000 is a Winchester, VA, which is a small town with extreme D.C. commuters. It's not really a self-sufficient town, just a crazy far exurb, similar to a Kawartha Lakes or Peterborough. I'd say 250,000 should be the cut-off at the bottom.

For the Capital Region USA:

High Sufficiency= 250k to 750k

• Bristol: 307,614 (most in Tennessee)
• Hagerstown: 293,844 (many in West Virginia)
• Lynchburg: 261,593
• Roanoke: 315,251
• Salisbury: 418,046

Small=750k to 2 million

• Richmond: 1,314,434
• Virginia Beach: 1,799,674

Medium= 2 million to 5 million

• Baltimore: 2,844,510

Large= 5 million to 10 million

• Washington: 6,385,162

Huge = 10 million+

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

Also, 100,000 isn't high sufficiency. 100,000 is a Winchester, VA, which is a small town with extreme D.C. commuters.

Well in a case like that, just let DC Have it and leave the goal posts where they are. Thanks.

[lio45]

Illinois' distribution is amusing: nothing between glorified villages and Chicago.

Most states have a second city. (I realize STL plays that role, and is over the border.)

Is IL the most extreme case, or is there even worse out there? At first sight Atlanta, Phoenix and Indy are also almost synonymous with their states.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by lio45

Illinois' distribution is amusing: nothing between glorified villages and Chicago.

Most states have a second city. (I realize STL plays that role, and is over the border.)

Is IL the most extreme case, or is there even worse out there? At first sight Atlanta, Phoenix and Indy are also almost synonymous with their states.

I don't know about Arizona, but both Illinois and Georgia both have a few okay sized secondary metros. Rockford for example has some size to it. I think that Illinois represent more of the norm than not.

[Shawn]

Massachusetts:

I broke up the Boston-Providence CSA for this.

High Sufficiency: 2 (Barnstable/Cape Cod; Pittsfield)
Small: 1 (Springfield)
Medium: 2 (Bristol County is 1/3 of the Providence MSA's population; Worcester, and I'm cheating by 10,000 people to push its MSA over 1 million)
Large: 1 (Boston)
Huge: 0

[ue]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

In the U.S., the gap is probably better set at 2 million.

There's a big gap in the number of metros just above/just below it:

1,000,000-1,500,000: 16 metros
1,500,000-2,000,000: 4 metros
2,000,000-2,500,000: 11 metros
2,500,000-3,000,000: 7 metros

16 metros from 1 to 1.5 million, but that collapses to 4 in the 1.5 to 2 million range, before picking back up.

Also, 100,000 isn't high sufficiency. 100,000 is a Winchester, VA, which is a small town with extreme D.C. commuters. It's not really a self-sufficient town, just a crazy far exurb, similar to a Kawartha Lakes or Peterborough. I'd say 250,000 should be the cut-off at the bottom.

For the Capital Region USA:

High Sufficiency= 250k to 750k

• Bristol: 307,614 (most in Tennessee)
• Hagerstown: 293,844 (many in West Virginia)
• Lynchburg: 261,593
• Roanoke: 315,251
• Salisbury: 418,046

Small=750k to 2 million

• Richmond: 1,314,434
• Virginia Beach: 1,799,674

Medium= 2 million to 5 million

• Baltimore: 2,844,510

Large= 5 million to 10 million

• Washington: 6,385,162

Huge = 10 million+

Uhh no one would describe these areas as 'exurbs' of Toronto. Most people in either don't commute to Toronto and while many will go to Toronto for shopping trips or concerts, they're fairly self-sufficient for day-to-day needs (especially Peterborough).

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Razor

I don't know about Arizona, but both Illinois and Georgia both have a few okay sized secondary metros. Rockford for example has some size to it. I think that Illinois represent more of the norm than not.
Heck, take QC away and you are left with a similar situation in Quebec. Montreal and with what you call a few "glorified villages". Sherbrooke, where you hail from, is smaller then both Pretoria and Rockford Ill and is considered a significant metro for Quebec. Like the old saying.."All roads in Quebec lead to Montreal" (can apply to a lot of places).

Quebec also has Quebec City, so the difference between the 1st and 2nd metros is not too extreme.

But for Illinois, the difference between the 1st and 2nd ranks is ridiculous by any measure, metro or city populations.

1. Chicago - 2,746,388
2. Aurora -180,542
3. Joliet -150,362
4. Naperville - 149,540
5. Rockford - 148,655

[Razor]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Quebec also has Quebec City, so the difference between the 1st and 2nd metros is not too extreme.

But for Illinois, the difference between the 1st and 2nd ranks is ridiculous by any measure, metro or city populations.

1. Chicago - 2,746,388
2. Aurora -180,542
3. Joliet -150,362
4. Naperville - 149,540
5. Rockford - 148,655

This thread's intent wasn't to highlight the disparity, but rather the amount.
As a side note: If going by metropolitan areas, Rockford's metro is over 300k and is not part of Chicago's metro like I believe Aurora ,Joliet and Naperville to be?

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Razor

This thread's intent wasn't to highlight the disparity, but rather the amount.
As a side note: If going by metropolitan areas, Rockford's metro is over 300k and is not part of Chicago's metro like I believe Aurora to be. Maybe Joliet and Naperville as well?

2019 Estimates - Core Based Statistical Areas

These estimates include too much rural population in the smaller MSAs, but it is what it is.


Chicago CSA
1. Chicago(IL) - 9,458,539
a. Ottawa - 147,836
b. Kankakee - 109,862

Top 10 IL MSA
2. Metro East - MO/IL - 2,803,228 (IL counties - 682,715)
3. Peoria - 400,561
4. Quad Cities IL/IA - 379,172 (IL counties - 206,229)
5. Rockford - 336,116
6. Champaign-Urbana - 226,033
7. Springfield - 206,868
8. Bloomington-Normal - 171,517
9. Carbondale - 135,764
10. Decatur - 104,009

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

2. Metro East - MO/IL - 2,803,228 (IL counties - 682,715)

Wow, I had no idea that the metro east is now that large. That's nearly 25% of the entire STL metro area. It's still in the 400 - 500k range in my mind.



And once again, putting the Ottawa micropolitan in the Chicago CSA is still asinine IMO.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Wow, I had no idea that the metro east is now that large. That's nearly 25% of the entire STL metro area. It's still in the 400 - 500k range in my mind.

And once again, putting the Ottawa micropolitan in the Chicago CSA is still asinine IMO.

To be fair, the main urbanized part is smaller.

The MSA figures include a lot of rural counties on the edge of Metro East commuting to the outermost sprawl.

Madison - 262,966
St. Clair - 259,686

Bond - 16,426
Calhoun - 4,739
Clinton - 37,562
Jersey - 21,773
Macoupin - 44,926
Monroe - 34,637

[SlidellWx]

Louisiana

High Sufficiency = 7
Small = 1
Medium = 1

Interestingly, the small and medium metros (Baton Rouge and New Orleans) account for 46% of the state population, and the region of Southeast Louisiana is the economic engine of the state.

courtesy of Southeast Louisiana Legal Services

courtesy gnoinc.org

Lafayette is on the cusp of small status, but growth has stagnated since the oil bust of the mid-2010's. It is the principle city for the Acadiana region.

The rest of the metros are more or less regional centers that serve their respective portions of the state. Monroe is the principle city in Northeast Louisiana; Shreveport in Northwest Louisiana, Alexandria in Central Louisiana, Lake Charles in Southwest Louisiana.

Houma services bayou and coastal areas to the southwest of New Orleans (this was the hardest hit metro from Hurricane Ida this year and has a long road to recovery ahead of them).

Hammond is the newest MSA after the urban area surpassed 50,000 in the early 2010's, and is part of the New Orleans CSA. The majority of the growth is in the form of exurban subdivisions filled with people working in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. I personally would not want to do that 50 mile commute, but tons of people do.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

However, in reality, the 2.8M people St. Louis MSA acts as THE major center for a broad swath of southern Illinois, despite the fact that it's mainly in a neighboring state.

I think that I read somewhere that the second largest "metro area" in Illinois is actually just the eastern suburbs of St. Louis.

[SFBruin]

Not entirely sure for Wa, but I am guessing that we would have one large (Seattle-Tacoma), one small (Spokane), and a bunch of high sufficiency metro areas.

[Razor]

A couple more Provinces.

Quebec
Large=1
Small=1 (Note:Maybe a few decades away from becoming a medium metro)
High Sufficiency=3 (Note: almost 4)

British Columbia
Medium=1
High Sufficiency=6 (Note: 1 close to becoming a small metro)

BC Seems to have some decent balance. Ditto for Louisiana above ^

[BigDipper 80]

Ohio might be the most "demographically balanced" state in the US, both in terms of the relative size of its metros as well as the geographic location of them:

1. Cincinnati (incl. NKY & Indiana) - 2,221,208
2. Columbus - 2,122,271
3. Cleveland - 2,048,449
---
4. Dayton - 807,611
5. Akron - 703, 479
6. Toledo - 641,816
7. Youngstown - 536,081


In terms of how the OP asked the question:

High Sufficiency= 6
Small=4
Medium=3

Not included in the initial ask, but there are about 16 metro areas that fall into the 50-100k range in Ohio.