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Old Posted Dec 19, 2013, 8:23 PM
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Cincinnati council votes to build its streetcar after all

After all the drama, the good guys are going to win. The Cincinnati city council voted with a 6-3 veto-proof majority to resume streetcar construction.

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Originally Posted by Streetsblog Capitol Hill
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/12/19/cincinnati-will-complete-its-streetcar/

Cincinnati Will Complete Its Streetcar

“We’re gonna have a streetcar.”

That was the announcement, met with cheers, from Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley this afternoon.

Streetcar supporters rallying last month. Photo: UrbanCincy
Cranley said he “would not sign the legislation because” he “thinks it’s wrong.” But he was flanked by Council Member Kevin Flynn, the crucial vote on the City Council needed to override a mayoral veto.

Five other members of Cincinnati’s City Council voted in committee this morning to put forward a recommendation for legislation that the project be resumed. A City Council vote will take place at a meeting beginning at 2 p.m.
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2013, 8:43 PM
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Thank god.
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  #3  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2013, 9:05 PM
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didn't they build a downtown transit center 10 years ago....
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Old Posted Dec 19, 2013, 10:23 PM
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^ hell, they built a full-blown heavy rail subway tunnel 80 years ago and never bothered to finish it.


source: wikipedia
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  #5  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Good move Cincy!
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 12:42 AM
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Thank goodness. A streetcar is hardly gonna change the regional travel patterns of metro Cincinnati residents but it may make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core.

With this news and Detroit's system, virtually all major Rust Belt cities will have some form of rail transit.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 1:07 AM
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I'm so thrilled. Now we need to start working for the extension to the University of Cincinnati.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 1:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Thank goodness. A streetcar is hardly gonna change the regional travel patterns of metro Cincinnati residents but it may make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core.
No it won't. What will make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core, will be a bus system that actually provides frequent service, and service late into the night, to more than a 2 mile stretch of the city.

What I find interesting is the almost no mention on here at all of the service improvements the Cincinnati Metro Bus made in August, to provide more frequent service on busy routes, and enhanced crosstown service, because most people are not traveling downtown.
Those changes will do a lot more to improve mobility.

The streetcar is nice and all, but if we are going to really improve mobility, then we gotta actually improve the service that touches the entire metro area.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 2:15 AM
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Don't get me started on the mayor but kudos to council.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 8:59 AM
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And, here I was thinking that Mark Mallory was mayor-for-life, or something. Does Cincy have term limits, or did he just decide he'd had enough? He seemed popular enough from what I could tell.

Anyway, good news. I can't for the life of me figure out why this is the hill this new dude wanted to die on. He's completely entitled to think this may not be as big a deal as others think it is, but why in the world take such a stance on something that had overcome all the odds, and was already under construction, so you could throw the whole issue back into turmoil? And, this guy is a Democrat (at least nominally), no less. The tea party called; they want their rhetoric back.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
No it won't. What will make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core, will be a bus system
The most important thing to make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core will be practical day-to-day amenities within walking distance, like grocery stores and department stores. They don't need transit to the suburbs, they need to be able to walk to more stuff. The streetcar, as an economic development tool, is therefore vastly more important to this goal than improving buses to the suburbs. The main benefit of the streetcar is not mobility, it's development attraction.

But we all know you have a specific fetish for suburban bus routes, so I don't think any of us want to spend the next week debating it with you.
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Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
With this news and Detroit's system, virtually all major Rust Belt cities will have some form of rail transit.
except milwaukee*. they too have plans for a central area street car, but it's still in limbo while the powers that be bicker on endlessly (anyone notice a pattern?)

KC, indy, and columbus are the other major midwestern cities without any rail transit, but their inclusion in the "rust belt" is more ambiguous.


(*) yes, technically, a small number of people do commute between milwaukee and chicago via amtrak's hiawatha service, but that's not the kind of in-town rail transit we're talking about.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 20, 2013 at 3:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 3:46 PM
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  #14  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 4:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ hell, they built a full-blown heavy rail subway tunnel 80 years ago and never bothered to finish it.


source: wikipedia
Are those abandoned subway tunnels still salvageable? I sure hope so.
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  #15  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 5:43 AM
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Congrats Cincy
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  #16  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
except milwaukee*. they too have plans for a central area street car, but it's still in limbo while the powers that be bicker on endlessly (anyone notice a pattern?)

KC, indy, and columbus are the other major midwestern cities without any rail transit, but their inclusion in the "rust belt" is more ambiguous.


(*) yes, technically, a small number of people do commute between milwaukee and chicago via amtrak's hiawatha service, but that's not the kind of in-town rail transit we're talking about.
Fuck, I forgot Milwaukee. My apologies, and right in my own backyard too! I did not include the other cities because, as you point out, they don't really have post-industrial economies.
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Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail>Auto View Post
Are those abandoned subway tunnels still salvageable? I sure hope so.
Of course. Cincinnati has in the past proposed to run light rail through them. Even though all those plans hasn't really moved much those tunnels will provide some form of mass transit in the future...........
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  #18  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail>Auto View Post
Are those abandoned subway tunnels still salvageable? I sure hope so.
A relatively recent study found that it would only cost $100 million to bring the entire tunnel up to modern standards. Also, the tunnel can be used as our "local match" to leverage more federal funds for light rail.
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Old Posted Dec 21, 2013, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMich View Post
And, here I was thinking that Mark Mallory was mayor-for-life, or something. Does Cincy have term limits, or did he just decide he'd had enough? He seemed popular enough from what I could tell.
Yes, two four-year term limits.
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  #20  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
The most important thing to make car-lite living appealing for people in the urban core will be practical day-to-day amenities within walking distance, like grocery stores and department stores. They don't need transit to the suburbs, they need to be able to walk to more stuff. The streetcar, as an economic development tool, is therefore vastly more important to this goal than improving buses to the suburbs. The main benefit of the streetcar is not mobility, it's development attraction.

But we all know you have a specific fetish for suburban bus routes, so I don't think any of us want to spend the next week debating it with you.
Using streetcars are a development tool rather than an actual transit system is my big criticism of modern streetcars, but Cincinnati's system actually looks like it will be a useful circulator line.

Hopefully the service frequencies will be a 10 minutes or greater.
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