HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 12:14 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,186
Chicago is the only US city with flights to 6 continents, with Addis Ababa and Auckland being the sole representative of their continents for now (I think a flight to Brisbane may be in the works for Oceania).
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 12:26 AM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
^Ohio is also the largest state without a major airline hub. Because Cincinnati's airport is actually in Kentucky, Ohio is also technically the largest state in the country with no direct flights to Europe or Asia.

Ohio seems like a great candidate for a high speed rail network connecting its major metros. They should focus on linking the state's major airports by rail, IMO.
The first high speed train in the United States could have been in Ohio:


The Air France flight between CVG and Paris is subsidized by GE Aviation and Airbus. They swap spare parts in the cargo hold.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 3:44 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 6,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The first high speed train in the United States could have been in Ohio:
Huge missed opportunity. Ohio could've done 40 years ago what California, Texas, and Florida are frantically trying to achieve now, lol. And 40 years later, it still makes a lot of sense for Ohio, IMO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 5:32 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,422
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The first high speed train in the United States could have been in Ohio:
The Air France flight between CVG and Paris is subsidized by GE Aviation and Airbus. They swap spare parts in the cargo hold.
Could have? Advocates started pushing for OHSR in 1974, this referendum in 1982 failed. Eventually a traditional 3C proposal was promised $400 Million in ARRA funding for 3 round trips per day service which the then Governor decided to kill around 2009. A true HSR line would costs in the $Billions, not the less than $half Billion promised in 2009. Golly, Illinois has just spent $2 Billion for a speed increase to 90 mph between Alton and Joliet IL. What train speeds do you think less than $half a Billion would have allowed in Ohio?

The only way OHSR would have ever been built has been, is, or will be dependent upon proper funding - which has never ever been promised.

Additionally, in what way does the Ohio 3C train proposal have anything at all to do with European planes landing at Lambert Field in St. Louis, Mo? It amazes me how far off topic threads can get given half a chance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 5:48 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Huge missed opportunity. Ohio could've done 40 years ago what California, Texas, and Florida are frantically trying to achieve now, lol. And 40 years later, it still makes a lot of sense for Ohio, IMO.
A big part of the push was Japan, which was looking to export the high speed rail technology it developed, in anticipation that France would soon attempt to do the same. In reality, neither county made any inroads in the United States.

Ohio's cities are so close that the high speed sections between the various cities would be very short. The distance between DT Cincinnati and DT Dayton, for example, is about 55 miles, with only 30 or so out in the open country. Same with Cleveland-Akron. Dayton-Columbus is only 75 miles.

In Cleveland, a giant federal courthouse tower was built to physically block passenger rail access to the historic Tower City station:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/To...!4d-81.6933063

In Cincinnati, the city's second-richest family, the Lindners, built an Omnimax Theater for children over the CUT approach tracks. The Lindners own a ton of Amtrak stock (the daddy bought a bunch of Pennsylvania RR assets after the bankruptcy) and so any build-out of CUT will require demolition of the theater they donated:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ci...!4d-84.5376308
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 6:16 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,813
Also, there is a railroad that runs directly between Cincinnati and St. Louis in more-or-less a straight line, and is about 40-50 miles shorter than a route that travels through Louisville or through Indianapolis. I'm sure that this line has plenty of capacity for passenger rail and could serve all of the small towns it travels through. There is no parallel interstate highway.

Unfortunately, I think there would be too much pressure to choose either the Louisville or Indianapolis route in order to pick up those population centers, but interstate highways parallel those railroads, and so there is direct competition for passengers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2021, 4:24 PM
Emprise du Lion Emprise du Lion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
It's technically a city discussion, though not exactly about urban form. But considering Saint Louis hasn't had a Trans-Atlantic flight since 2003(!), and the city has been digging out of a massive hole caused by the collapse of TransWorld Airlines, this is fantastic news for the city's future, and something that's definitely a consideration for upper-middle class remote workers:
It's because Bayer bought Monsanto, and St. Louis is home to Bayer's North American Crop Science Division HQ.

One slight correction though, St. Louis also took part in that one year spree that WOW Airlines went on with flights to Iceland back in 2018. The service only lasted about a year, and it wasn't to continental Europe, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2021, 4:47 PM
F1 Tommy's Avatar
F1 Tommy F1 Tommy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
It's technically a city discussion, though not exactly about urban form. But considering Saint Louis hasn't had a Trans-Atlantic flight since 2003(!), and the city has been digging out of a massive hole caused by the collapse of TransWorld Airlines.
Let's not forget history. St Louis was never a big hub until TWA closed the Chicago hub and moved it to St. Louis in the early 1980's(something AA corrected after the merger). Rather it was a secondary hub for the midwest along with Kansas City for TWA. Before O'hare TWA had it's major midwest hub at Midway. As far as international traffic TWA and British Caldonia had flights going back to the 1980's, but not always daily. STL will never be a big hub(other than for a low cost carrier) let alone international destination due to it's size and proximity to Chicago. Still this is nice for St. Louis.

Last edited by F1 Tommy; Dec 18, 2021 at 5:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2021, 5:15 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 26,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 Tommy View Post
STL will never be a big hub(other than for a low cost carrier) let alone international destination due to it's size and proximity to Chicago.
I don't think proximity to Chicago is a major factor here. Detroit is even closer to Chicago than St. Louis is and DTW is large hub for Delta, and while its international routes aren't quite as expansive as ORD's, DTW still has nonstops to 5 destinations in Asia, 5 in Europe, and 1 in the middle east.

It's a size issue. If St. Louis anchored a CSA of 5M+ people like Detroit does, it'd have a bigger busier airport.
__________________
"every time a strip mall dies, an angel gets its wings"

Last edited by Steely Dan; Dec 18, 2021 at 6:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2021, 5:58 PM
F1 Tommy's Avatar
F1 Tommy F1 Tommy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I don't think proximity to Chicago is a major factor here. Detroit is even closer to Chicago than St. Louis is and DTW is large hub for Delta, and while its international routes aren't quite as expensive as ORD's, DTW still has nonstops to 5 destinations in Asia, 5 in Europe, and 1 in the middle east.

It's a size issue. If St. Louis anchored a CSA of 5M+ people like Detroit does, it'd have a bigger busier airport.
Your probably right, but they did gain and loose the TWA hub due to proximity to Chicago. Also Detroit has more high tech and the auto industry along with a more diverse middle eastern population. I guess Minneapolis is also more like Detroit. They along with Detroit also have legacy hubs still, from the Northwest days(now Delta).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2021, 11:16 AM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,181
It isn’t mainland Europe but before the pandemic, there was a nonstop from Providence to the Azores.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2021, 6:42 PM
Emprise du Lion Emprise du Lion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I don't think proximity to Chicago is a major factor here. Detroit is even closer to Chicago than St. Louis is and DTW is large hub for Delta, and while its international routes aren't quite as expansive as ORD's, DTW still has nonstops to 5 destinations in Asia, 5 in Europe, and 1 in the middle east.

It's a size issue. If St. Louis anchored a CSA of 5M+ people like Detroit does, it'd have a bigger busier airport.
Lambert did well enough when it was TWA's hub, especially after TWA acquired the smaller Ozark Airlines in the 1980s which had already been using St. Louis as its hub. The trouble is that soon after the AA merger, it became clear that AA didn't need St. Louis since O'Hare remained its Midwestern hub. AA is now a distant second in terms of carriers at Lambert, with Southwest by far being the biggest carrier here.

Additionally in 2019 (not using 2020 due to Covid), Lambert had just under 16 million passengers pass through. That's well below the numbers it was pulling in the 1980s and 90s with TWA, and far below its 30 million peak at the turn of the millennium.

At this point, the airport is actually under used. There's plenty of gates that aren't open, although Southwest's service has lead to some being rehabbed and reopened. There's also MidAmerica Airport over in St. Clair County, IL which sits vastly underused. It was built in the 90s to be a release valve for the congest Lambert, but that obviously stopped being a problem after TWA went under.

If an airline ever wants to expand service and or add a hub, Lambert could certainly step up to the plate without stepping on the toes of the current providers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:26 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.