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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2020, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
of course, but otoh its not like absolutely nothing is going on. they are, or err, were?? doing a little something with upgrading the acela amtrak trains from balto-wash dc.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...fact-sheet.pdf
That's what I meant with the "Amtrak is doing what it can". They have some upgrades ongoing to improve travel times, but as a whole it's small potatoes compared to HS2.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2020, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I don't think anyone is suggesting building an HSR line from NYC to Los Angeles.

Birmingham has a population of 4 million or so, and London a population of about 14 million.

The first phase of the project is roughly equivalent of building an HSR line from New York City to Philadelphia. New York is 19 million, Philadelphia is 6 million. Birmingham is about 160km from London, Philadelphia is about 130km from New York.

Doesn't seem so crazy.

Ideally an equivilant project in the US would see an HSR corridor built from New York to Washington, with Phase 1 being NYC-Philly, 2A being Washington-Baltimore, and 2B being Baltimore-Philly.

No way that wouldn't be successful.

Amtrak is doing it's best with what it has right now on the corridor, but if it had $100 billion to sink into the corridor it could do wonders.
Of course no one is suggesting building a HSR line between NYC and LA, I certainly am not because the distance is too great. But that is why HSR is not as popular as solution in the USA than the UK.

Let me repeat some very important facts for HSR2, it connects 8 of England's 10 largest cities together. It does so laying just 335 miles of new railroad corridor. It connects more than 30 million of England's 55 million population, more than half. of course it will be a politically popular solution.

Try connecting more than 50% of America's 328 million population with just 335 miles of new HSR railroad corridors. Even the famed Northeast Corridor Amtrak runs Acela trains on is 453 miles in length. It connects just 3 of America's 10 largest metros, just 4 of America's 20 largest metros, just 5 of America's 30 largest metros. Being extremely generous, the sum of the entire population of the 8 states the NEC runs through is around 58 million, about the same as all of England. That's just 17.6% of the population of the 328 million of the entire USA. Not even one fifth, no where close to one half.

HSR2 longest elapse times for any train from London will be 2 hours and 11 minutes. The NEC elapse times "as is" from New York City are 3 hours to DC and 3.5 hours to Boston. Amtrak serves just 12 million intercity passengers per year on the NEC. Even when you include commuter passengers it is not overcrowded with trains, nor is it likely to be soon.

The only way to connect half of America's population in a reasonable amount of time is by flying. Even then, coast to coast flights between NYC and LA require around 5.5 hours in the air, with additional time getting to and from the airports.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
it was to their advantage that the two largest cities are only 118 miles apart - while in California they are 397 miles apart using Highway 99.
A shorter distance isn’t necessarily an advantage when also factoring in population density and land use. As a consequence, Phase 1 will have between 64-71% of the tunnel length of the proposed California HSR despite not having to navigate any mountains and covering a far shorter distance.

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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Is it any plans to expand it to Scotland, a Phase 2-C maybe? I heard London-Edinburgh is a busy corridor.

And what about Glasgow-Edinburgh connection? Is it HSR or ordinary one? Any plans to upgrade it?
Several million journeys are made each year on the WCML and ECML from Edinburgh and Glasgow to London. That has grown substantially in the last few years both in terms of journey growth and erosion of the aviation share for long-distance travel.

The current plans for journeys onwards to the north-east, north-west and Scotland are for HS2 trains to re-join the WCML south of Wigan (up to Carlisle and Glasgow) and the ECML south of York (up to Newcastle and Edinburgh). That of course would deliver sizable journey time savings and drastically boost connectivity between the Scottish cities and the rest of the country.

Back in April, Network Rail released a Strategic Planning document (https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-con...dvice-2020.pdf) outlining their thoughts for upgrades to the ECML from York onwards to Newcastle to facilitate onward HS2 services. Options being considered include redevelopment of York, Northallerton, Darlington and Newcastle stations, new platforms and tracks to aid with faster efficient journey times and increased connectivity. Plans haven’t been unveiled yet for the WCML, but the WCML between Wigan and Glasgow lacks the population centres of the ECML.

A separate study by the High-Speed Rail Group (https://www.rail-leaders.com/wp-cont...d-Scotland.pdf) from May worked out that an extension to HS2 up to Scotland had a very high benefit-to-cost ratio due to the lower construction risk and scope to construct large bypasses on the existing WCML across areas with low population density. That would get journey times down to just over 3 hours.

With Phase 1 under construction, the current development focus is on the integration of Phase 2b (the western leg to Manchester and eastern leg to Leeds) with HS3/High Speed North. HS3 would be a high-speed new line running from Liverpool to Leeds via Manchester and would use parts of Phase 2b. I suspect that once work on Phase 2b/HS3 is underway, we’ll see developments for an extension up to Scotland emerge.

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Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
Didn't realize Birmingham was so big.
It is less about the size of Birmingham, but the current and future demand for intercity travel and the shrinkage of most of the UK into one agglomeration. In 2018-19 147mn passenger journeys were made on the UK’s intercity network, that is anticipated to grow to 345mn (the 2010-11 base forecasted 250mn) by the 2040’s.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2021, 4:54 PM
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HS2
All images from HS2: https://www.hs2.org.uk or https://twitter.com/HS2ltd

Euston Tunnel Approach
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Long Itchington Wood Tunnel
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A446 Bridge Move
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Chiltern Tunnel South
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The Green Corridor
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First freight delivery at Calvert
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Old Oak Common



Euston Station



Chiltern Tunnel


Long Itchington Wood Tunnel


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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 8:46 PM
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It seems working sites are very busy. Ready in 2026, right?
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 3:24 PM
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Phase I will open sometime between 2028-31.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2021, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nito View Post
Phase I will open sometime between 2028-31.
Nito, and when works on Phase II will start?
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2021, 4:25 PM
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HS2
Further updates .All images sourced from HS2 on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HS2ltd

Phase 2a – Birmingham to Crewe
Permission has been granted for works to start on Phase 2a which acts as a 58km HSR by-pass around Birmingham and the West Coast Main Line up to Crewe, for journeys onto Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland. The project will involve 2 tunnels, 17 viaducts, 65 bridges, 36 embankments and 26 cuttings. Construction stars in 2024.

Video Link

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Chiltern Tunnel (South)


Long Itchington Wood Tunnel


Water Orton Viaducts





Colne Valley

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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2021, 5:30 PM
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HS2 to use 3D concrete printing to help cut carbon on project by up to 50%

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/...rete-printing/

Quote:
.....

- Called ‘Printfrastructure’, the cutting-edge technology will be deployed by HS2 Ltd’s London tunnels contractor SCS JV (Skanska Costain STRABAG Joint Venture), in a move that represents a major step forward in construction technology. Printing concrete with computer operated robots will enable SCS JV to make structures on site, instead of transporting them as pre-cast slabs by road before being assembled and lowered into place by large cranes. As flexible mobile technology, 3D concrete printing enables the technique to be deployed in physically-restricted areas – avoiding the need to develop complicated and potentially expensive logistical plans. --- Furthermore, where HS2 construction is happening besides a live railway, it offers an opportunity to deliver works without disrupting the travelling public. This is because a robot will print the reinforced concrete, enabling construction to continue and trains to run at the same time. Previously, work would have taken place overnight after trains have stopped running, potentially disturbing the local community, or would have required the suspension of services to ensure safe working.

- Using a computer-controlled robot enables the reinforced concrete structures to be printed with a strengthening unique internal lattice structure, which not only significantly reduces the quantity of concrete required but also cuts waste. But the breakthrough is underlined by technology developed by SCS JV’s Worcestershire-based partner, ChangeMaker 3D. Working with UK advanced materials specialist, Versarien, the high-tech SME’s innovation takes the 3D concrete printing process and combines it with the strongest material ever tested: graphene. --- Concrete with microscopic strands of graphene only several atoms thick running through it like stripes in a stick of rock replaces traditional steel to help drive improved site safety, greater construction flexibility, shorter build time and a smaller carbon footprint. SCS JV estimates that the process it is developing with the Midlands firm could reduce the concrete used and contribute toward reducing carbon by up to 50 per cent. By removing steel and simplifying the construction process, which will no longer require cranes and significantly fewer delivery trucks, the carbon reduction could be even greater.

.....
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2021, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post

Ideally an equivilant project in the US would see an HSR corridor built from New York to Washington, with Phase 1 being NYC-Philly, 2A being Washington-Baltimore, and 2B being Baltimore-Philly.

No way that wouldn't be successful.

Amtrak is doing it's best with what it has right now on the corridor, but if it had $100 billion to sink into the corridor it could do wonders.
A brand-new HSR line between Boston and Washington, DC would only establish an incremental gain in the existing service from the perspective of those traveling express between the major cities. A similar criticism was lobbed at England's HS2. Sure, it'll free up tons of capacity on the existing lines, but people who live along the former mainlines will still want the improvements they've wanted for many years, and with the money and attention directed to the new line, they'll be waiting another 50 years.

California HSR is building where there is virtually zero rail service today and so is a completely different situation. Also, CAHSR will integrate local and skip-stop into the high speed line, something that is not happening with HS2, where the line will collect local services north of Birmingham and allow them to run super-express to London.

The big compromise in the HS2 design is that northern trains will bypass central Birmingham instead of run directly through it. It would be like CAHSR bypassing San Jose.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
A brand-new HSR line between Boston and Washington, DC would only establish an incremental gain in the existing service from the perspective of those traveling express between the major cities.
My impression of the Northeast Corridor is that it suffers from many of the issues experienced by the WCML and other British mainlines: a mixed-use railway of intercity, regional, commuter and freight services with legacy infrastructure bottlenecks creating conflicts, limits on higher speeds and capacities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
A similar criticism was lobbed at England's HS2. Sure, it'll free up tons of capacity on the existing lines, but people who live along the former mainlines will still want the improvements they've wanted for many years, and with the money and attention directed to the new line, they'll be waiting another 50 years.
HS2 is merely one part of a larger jigsaw puzzle to reorganise the railways across the UK to dramatically increase capacity far beyond the HS2 route. Transferring the existing fast intercity services from the WCML, MML and ECML onto HS2 releases slots that can then be utilised by more local and regional passenger and freight services. Two examples:
  • At Euston – the London terminus of the WCML – the departure capacity will triple when HS2 fully opens
  • Between Coventry and Birmingham, the removal of just a single intercity train service doubles capacity on this corridor for commuter services

As it stands, the WCML, MML and ECML are already experiencing high-capacity pressures. In the absence of HS2 there won’t be any capacity relief the mainlines and many supporting routes across the UK.


Image source: Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...tegic-case.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
California HSR is building where there is virtually zero rail service today and so is a completely different situation. Also, CAHSR will integrate local and skip-stop into the high speed line, something that is not happening with HS2, where the line will collect local services north of Birmingham and allow them to run super-express to London.
HS2 will be used solely by high-speed capable trains. Enabling local services to run on HS2 would replicate the problems of the existing mainline routes and mixed-speed operation would certainly limit the ability to operate up to 18tph in both directions at high-speed, especially on the core section. There will be connections to the existing WCML, MML and ECML, but these will be for fast intercity services beyond the scope of HS2 (e.g. up to Scotland on the WCML north of Warrington), which of course could form the basis of a HS3 at a later date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
The big compromise in the HS2 design is that northern trains will bypass central Birmingham instead of run directly through it. It would be like CAHSR bypassing San Jose.
Intercity services to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland have bypassed Birmingham ever since the Trent Valley Line opened some 175 years ago.

During the design phase, dozens of routes were considered; two (via Birmingham city centre) got past stage two, but neither were advanced beyond stage three. The eventual six shortlisted routes all converged on a route south of Coventry into Birmingham Curzon Street via Birmingham Interchange.

Running HS2 via Birmingham would generate very few benefits, many disbenefits, and be too costly and complicated to deliver. There are three complications which would make such a proposal unviable:
  • To avoid excessive journey times for all journeys north of Birmingham, HS2 would have to enter the city from the south/south-east which would necessitate the construction of a staggering 25-30km tunnel (longer than the Northolt and Euston tunnels below London combined)
  • There is no site anywhere in the city to accommodate a vast six-platform underground station with 450m platforms on a south-to-north axis; the new Birmingham Curzon Street (which ironically is also the site for the first terminus in Birmingham) is on a west-to-east axis
  • Such a line arrangement would make an eastern leg (up to Sheffield, Leeds and Newcastle) incredibly unlikely which would neuter the potential gains on the MML and ECML.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 9:21 PM
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^Thanks for your post.

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Originally Posted by nito View Post

HS2 will be used solely by high-speed capable trains. Enabling local services to run on HS2 would replicate the problems of the existing mainline routes and mixed-speed operation would certainly limit the ability to operate up to 18tph in both directions at high-speed, especially on the core section. There will be connections to the existing WCML, MML and ECML, but these will be for fast intercity services beyond the scope of HS2 (e.g. up to Scotland on the WCML north of Warrington), which of course could form the basis of a HS3 at a later date.
Sorry - by "local" should have said on existing tracks.

CAHSR will mix with San Francisco commuter rail for 45 miles and Los Angeles commuter rail for about 10 miles, but there will be a 300 mile stretch of exclusive HSR track between San Jose and Burbank. There will be about 6 stations between these two points. The stations will have center express tracks and platforms on passing sidings. The express trains will skip all Central Valley stations, the locals will stop at all of them, and then there will be an intermediate service that stops at some but not others.

The Northeast Corridor is how you described it. It's a very complicated situation. There are significant 4-track sections but they predate Amtrak and the appearance of the Acela express trains, meaning there are no exclusive purpose-built express tracks at any point.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:29 PM
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I understand you now!

All services between London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds will be on dedicated HS2 tracks end-to-end. None of these services will run on classic old mainline routes.

HS2 services to:
  • Liverpool will come off HS2 at Crewe and run on the existing Crewe-to-Liverpool Line (27km). Plans (Northern Powerhouse Rail/HS3) are being developed for a new high-speed line connecting Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds which would involve a spur off HS2.
  • Glasgow and Edinburgh will converge on the WCML south of Wigan. A report by HS2 noted that to deliver a London to Glasgow journey time below 3hrs would require an extensive amount of work for what is a lightly used route and sparsely populated. A likely outcome will be the odd bypass, tunnel, digital signalling and grade separation.
  • Sheffield will be served by a loop spur coming off HS2 onto the MML. The actual eastern route of HS2 is being revised and this could change, but in all likelihood Sheffield will remain on the classic network; the geography is simply not accommodative.
  • Newcastle will arrive via a new spur south of Leeds heading towards York where it will join the ECML which is a quad-track straight railway up to Darlington. The ECML is currently undergoing a £1.2bn upgrade which will deliver an additional 4tph into London King’s Cross and bring London-to-Edinburgh journey times (pre-HS2) down to sub-4hrs. The issue for HS2 services to Newcastle is that beyond Darlington (58km to Newcastle) the ECML reduces to 2-tracks between and incorporates a silly number of winding speed reducing curves, as well as passing through multiple urban areas with significant engineering obstacles (e.g. Durham viaduct). To my knowledge there aren’t any plans to create a bypass between Darlington and Newcastle (which would then leave the corridor for more local services), but it certainly could become a possibility and bypasses for the ECML have happened previously.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2021, 1:33 PM
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Rumours HS2 eastern leg to be ‘scrapped’ are ‘incorrect’, says North Warwickshire's MP Craig Tracey
August 27, 2021
Birmingham Mail Excerpt

Rumours that Phase 2B of HS2 is to be ‘scrapped’ are ‘incorrect’ and ‘no decision has yet been taken on the terms of delivery’, one of our MPs has been told.

North Warwickshire’s MP Craig Tracey says he has spoken to both the HS2 Minister and the Department for Transport following speculation that the eastern section of HS2 is to be all-but-axed due to its spiralling costs.

It was said that the eastern leg of HS2 - which was set to connect Birmingham to Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds - will soon be mothballed.

More : https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...apped-21394072
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 1:25 PM
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HS2
Various construction updates including a few renders of stations and other engineering works that I don’t think have been posted before.
Images sourced from HS2: https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk

Construction
Video Link

Video Link

Video Link

Video Link

Video Link


Inside the HS2 TBM's
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Building HS2's West Midlands stations
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Victoria Road Crossover Box
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Euston
Video Link







Old Oak Common
Video Link

Video Link

Video Link

























Birmingham Curzon Street
Video Link















Stoke




Chiltern Tunnel
Video Link















Tunnels






Birmingham Fazeley Viaduct


Colne Valley Viaduct








Edgcote Viaduct


Oxford Canal Viaduct


River Colne Viaduct


Small Dean Viaduct


Water Orton Viaduct
Video Link







Wendover Dean Viaduct
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 8:54 PM
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CNN reports that England has significantly cut back plans for HS2 north of Birmingham:
https://www.selfridges.com/GB/en/cat...lDownJacket-GB
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2021, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
CNN reports that England has significantly cut back plans for HS2 north of Birmingham:
https://www.selfridges.com/GB/en/cat...lDownJacket-GB
That summary isn’t quite accurate nor is it quite straight forward where there are new winners and losers from the revised strategy.

Phase 1 (London to Birmingham) is currently under construction and Phase 2a (Birmingham to Crewe) is due to start construction in the next 2-3 years. Where the plans have changed is when it comes to Phase 2b, which has slight amendments to the western branch and broader changes on the eastern branch.

The western branch of Phase2b (Crewe to Manchester) is still going ahead. Where there is a new conversation is around the Golborne Link; the proposed spur where HS2 connects to the West Coast Main Line for journeys onwards to Scotland. Golborne is just to the south of Wigan (the current plan is outlined below), but the new thinking is to extend HS2 further north (bypassing Wigan) to somewhere around Preston. Under Phase 2b, HS2 was targeting a journey time between London and Glasgow/Edinburgh of 3hrs 50mins, however with the revised connection at Preston and other works, planners are exploring whether this journey time can be reduced by either 20mins, 35mins or 50mins (i.e. a 3hr journey time), weighed against cost, disruption and time to deliver.


https://assets.publishing.service.go...eb-version.pdf[/I]

The next big change for HS2 comes with the eastern branch of Phase 2b up to Leeds. The original plan saw the line running from Birmingham to a new station (Totton) in-between the East Midland cities of Nottingham and Derby, spurs to Sheffield and York (for journeys to Newcastle on the East Coast Main Line) before arriving at a new terminus adjacent to the existing Leeds station. As per the below map, the plan is for the section between point A and to a point to the south of point H will be constructed. The line then branches east (to Nottingham) and west (to Derby), with trains running on an upgraded Midland Main Line to Sheffield. HS2 won’t serve Leeds or Newcastle, but both would be the recipient of an upgraded ECML.


Image sourced from the Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...100-590000.pdf

There are pros and cons to changes with the eastern branch; Nottingham and Derby are primary beneficiaries at the expense of Leeds and Newcastle. Fewer services running via the eastern branch also opens up increased frequencies to Manchester, Birmingham and other western branch destinations. The cons are more complicated and dependent upon how much money (potentially more than what a fully developed HS2 Phase 2b eastern leg would have cost):
- The eastern leg of HS2 provided the maximum capacity relief for the MML and ECML, there is a risk that capacity could be reduced as running faster trains on a mixed-speed railway entails more spacing and thus fewer services
- Upgrades to either main line will not come cheap and will be incredibly disruptive, it could be a costly repeat of the WCML Upgrade from several years ago which ran massively over-budget, didn’t deliver the scale of upgrades originally envisioned, and was incredibly disruptive
- HS2 was predominantly focused on running the majority of HS2 services on dedicated tracks; running more services on (upgraded) mainline infrastructure could present operation issues
- There is a north-south divide in the UK, but this strategy (HS2 effectively becomes a WCML by-pass) could create an east-west divide by undermining the Yorkshire cities









Images sourced from the Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...eb-version.pdf
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2021, 3:02 PM
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^It's easy to see how critics will seize upon many of those modest time improvements without acknowledging the freeing of capacity on the existing lines.
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