Can You See Your City Geographically Situated Elsewhere?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

as for LA's islands, it's always been a bit surprising to me how low they seem to fly on the radar screen, at least out here in flyover country.

other than "the freaking catalina wine mixer" i never hear anything about them, which seems a bit odd because they look pretty awesome and the US pacific coast is relatively sparse with offshore islands of decent size.

Catalina flies under the radar locally as well, and there are several reasons for this. One, it doesn’t boast the natural beauty of, say, Capri (Italy) with the majestic cliffs and bluffs (of course, Catalina has bluffs), nor is it as commercial/developed with vacation homes for the rich, and by extension, AirBnb. But the appeal of Catalina is that it’s mostly unspoiled by human settlement; it’s mostly about about hiking, camping, and wildlife.

Accessibility is also a factor, as the Catalina Island Express only operates out of San Pedro, Long Beach, and Dana Point. If there was a route out of Marina Del Rey, perhaps it would be more integrated into the cultural fabric.

The real nice islands are part of the Channel Islands National Park, which include Anacapa, Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa, and San Miguel Islands. Unfortunately, we can only lay claim to Anacapa (as it’s Ventura County, part of the LA CSA). The other three belong to Santa Barbara County. I consider them to be California’s best-kept secret.

[Quixote]

Described as the "Galapagos of North America"...

Anacapa Island

https://www.nps.gov/chis/planyourvisit/anacapa.htm


Santa Cruz Island

https://temblor.net/earthquake-insig...a-cruz-island/


Santa Rosa Island

https://sidharthroutray.com/hiking-t...a-rosa-island/


San Miguel Island

https://songsofthewilderness.com/201...miguel-island/

[Steely Dan]

^ stunning!

i guess it's probably a good thing the they're so low on the radar screen and inaccessible.

just let 'em be. we don't have to destroy every beautiful place with our obnoxious numbers.





source: https://www.gq.com/story/catalina-wine-mixer-real-event

[Quixote]

^ Amen!

[Peggerino]

Originally Posted by ue

It's more about the feel of the place. There are other more "Canadian" aspects to Winnipeg too, but there is something about it that just feels Midwestern at times. Freeways aside, it also looks the part. Lacking freeways, it has turned its main streets into hostile stroads not unlike what you'll see in the US. That, and the whole thing about keeping Portage & Main closed. The transit system is also very subpar for a Canadian city.

While I agree our transit is subpar, I believe it would still be pretty good for an American city its size. IIRC Wpg has a higher transit mode share than lots of the "sexy" US cities like Portland and Seattle.

I do get the impression though Winnipeg is also one of the most segregated cities in Canada which would fit in well in the upper midwest/great plains.

[SFBruin]

I think that part of the reason that the Catalina Islands are not as connected with LA as might be expected is that the latter, while being within about 15 miles from the coast, is really an inland city.

LA doesn't have a waterfront skyline, the way that San Francisco, Seattle and San Diego do. Instead, its downtown is built near an inland water source, and its development pattern spreads about equally both East and West.

Since most of the commercial activity in LA doesn't happen near the coast, I don't think that it's as top-of-mind to take a ferry to the Catalina Islands from LA as it is to take a ferry to Bainbridge Island from downtown Seattle, for instance.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This is just outside of Santiago: https://goo.gl/maps/6DZwwckpB3Eqm7MY6

Ignoring the billboard, if someone showed me this image and asked me to guess where it was taken, my first guess would be somewhere in southern California.

Looks exactly like the inland Antelope Valley Freeway (14) semiarid landcape near Saugus or Acton, not so much L.A. metro which is a bit greener.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I think that part of the reason that the Catalina Islands are not as connected with LA as might be expected is that the latter, while being within about 15 miles from the coast, is really an inland city.

LA doesn't have a waterfront skyline, the way that San Francisco, Seattle and San Diego do. Instead, its downtown is built near an inland water source, and its development pattern spreads about equally both East and West.

Since most of the commercial activity in LA doesn't happen near the coast, I don't think that it's as top-of-mind to take a ferry to the Catalina Islands from LA as it is to take a ferry to Bainbridge Island from downtown Seattle, for instance.

Long Beach is a major city (almost 500,000 people) right on the coast and you can take the boats right to Catalina and be there in one hour. Lots of people do it. L.A. is a gigantic city, and much of L.A. is less than 5 miles from the shore. The L.A.- Long Beach harbor together is the busiest port in the nation, so there is lots of waterfront economic activity. The fact that downtown is perhaps 10 or 12 miles from the shore doesn't negate the fact that L.A. IS A COASTAL PACIFIC CITY, and of course the beaches are an importaint aspect of the recreation and appeal of the area.

L.A. is like Athens or Rome, the centers of which are several miles from the coastal harbors at Piraeus and Ostia, but connection to the nearby sea is important for all. In the case of Athens especially, like L.A., the coast and beaches and islands, are important recreationally as well and the image of the city.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I think that part of the reason that the Catalina Islands are not as connected with LA as might be expected is that the latter, while being within about 15 miles from the coast, is really an inland city.

LA doesn't have a waterfront skyline, the way that San Francisco, Seattle and San Diego do. Instead, its downtown is built near an inland water source, and its development pattern spreads about equally both East and West.

Since most of the commercial activity in LA doesn't happen near the coast, I don't think that it's as top-of-mind to take a ferry to the Catalina Islands from LA as it is to take a ferry to Bainbridge Island from downtown Seattle, for instance.

Not this again.

LA isn’t an inland city. The city center itself may be 15 miles east of the ocean, but the city boundaries touch the water. Santa Monica, though a separate municipality, is an integral part of the city’s urban fabric and certainly a major node of “commercial” activity, not to mention the third busiest airport in the world in terms of passenger traffic (pre-pandemic). Plus, I thought LA was a decentralized city with the Westside being where most of the wealth and much of the economic engine is based?

What you’re describing is a city analogous to, say, Jacksonville where the coastal communities are outlying suburban areas that are less material to civic life and the regional economy.

I would also rethink using Seattle as a comparison, as that city is situated a good 100 miles inland—completely shielded from the Pacific by the Olympic Peninsula. In LA, you can actually see the ocean from DTLA on a clear day.

And the Bay Area as a whole isn’t a “coastal” metropolis, either. As it’s name implies, the metro is oriented around SF Bay, not the Pacific. Silicon Valley is 15-20 miles inland (shielded by Redwood forests), and the East Bay 10-30 miles (depending on where you are); ditto for Sonoma County proper. Even SF and Marin turn their back against the ocean.

Having a skyscraper-lined waterfront does not a coastal city make.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This is just outside of Santiago: https://goo.gl/maps/6DZwwckpB3Eqm7MY6

Ignoring the billboard, if someone showed me this image and asked me to guess where it was taken, my first guess would be somewhere in southern California.

Kind of, sort of.

In the google image, the scrub brush looks like some species of Acacia. I can't definitively tell, but something looks different about the plants. In the desert southwest you're likely to find creosote as the chest high choice of somewhat green leafy plants.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Not this again.

LA isn’t an inland city. The city center itself may be 15 miles east of the ocean, but the city boundaries touch the water. Santa Monica, though a separate municipality, is an integral part of the city’s urban fabric and certainly a major node of “commercial” activity, not to mention the third busiest airport in the world in terms of passenger traffic (pre-pandemic). Plus, I thought LA was a decentralized city with the Westside being where most of the wealth and much of the economic engine is based?

What you’re describing is a city analogous to, say, Jacksonville where the coastal communities are outlying suburban areas that are less material to civic life and the regional economy.

I would also rethink using Seattle as a comparison, as that city is situated a good 100 miles inland—completely shielded from the Pacific by the Olympic Peninsula. In LA, you can actually see the ocean from DTLA on a clear day.

And the Bay Area as a whole isn’t a “coastal” metropolis, either. As it’s name implies, the metro is oriented around SF Bay, not the Pacific. Silicon Valley is 15-20 miles inland (shielded by Redwood forests), and the East Bay 10-30 miles (depending on where you are); ditto for Sonoma County proper. Even SF and Marin turn their back against the ocean.

Having a skyscraper-lined waterfront does not a coastal city make.

It's so weird. LA culture includes the beach. Pre covid, the LA county beach towns/beaches were probably one of the busiest areas in the nation. They still probably are, but not at that level yet.
I love San Diego but it's not the same amount of crowds going to towards the water.

[Camelback]

The Sonoran Desert of Southern AZ and SoCal has quite a different flora and fauna. Parts of Chile come close, but not quite.

The best part of creosote is when it rains in the summertime, you can smell it for miles, if it's not raining, just grab a stem and rub the leaves together and sniff. The aroma is something that only a desert dweller can describe.

https://goo.gl/maps/WR1cmhrgB6RBstHA7

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by softee

People compare Toronto to New York and Chicago because it's a big, urban city with a dense core of late 19th, early 20th century walkable neighbourhoods, high transit usage and an enormous skyline and downtown core that looks and like feels a hell of a lot more like New York and Chicago than it does like LA or god forsaken Las Vegas. Its pre-war core is completely intact, contains over a million people, and bears next to no resemblance to almost every sunbelt city maybe the oldest, most urban parts of downtown LA or New Orleans. Oy vey, man.

I'd say it's a bigger and more booming upscale version of Cleveland surrounded by LA and with lots of splatters of Brickell Miami.

The character of the suburbs is more like LA especially with the sheer amount of new detached tract housing and massive 8 to 20 lane freeways and interchanges.

It also dosent have the beaux arts and art deco skyscrapers of Chicago, and instead of a centralized core it has a multi-nodular series of 'downtowns' that run from the lake along yonge street all the way to the 407. Most of these impressive suburban highrise clusters are exclamations on vast stretches of older fine grained 2 to 3 story commercial strips.

The distance from Bloor to the lake isnt that much bigger than the distance of Denman Street in Vancouver's west end to the Stadium skytrain station. Apart from Bay Street or Yonge and King, there isnt much that can be used for filming movies set in the financial core of downtown New York. We just lack the dramatic pre-war 12 to 20 story brick , stone, and terracotta tile clad canyons that make NY and Chicago so intensely urban.

I hope this changes as window wall falls out of favor and brick becomes a more popular material with developer and downtown continues to densify.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Catalina flies under the radar locally as well, and there are several reasons for this. One, it doesn’t boast the natural beauty of, say, Capri (Italy) with the majestic cliffs and bluffs (of course, Catalina has bluffs), nor is it as commercial/developed with vacation homes for the rich, and by extension, AirBnb. But the appeal of Catalina is that it’s mostly unspoiled by human settlement; it’s mostly about about hiking, camping, and wildlife.

Accessibility is also a factor, as the Catalina Island Express only operates out of San Pedro, Long Beach, and Dana Point. If there was a route out of Marina Del Rey, perhaps it would be more integrated into the cultural fabric.

It's worth noting every aspect of this is very, very deliberate. Catalina was explicitly designed to be the way it is, against the pressure of economics. The Wrigley family bought the whole island in the early part of the 1900s and closed off the everything outside of Avalon to development, and have maintain that policy to this day despite dozens of multi-million dollar offers. The City of Avalon has some extremely strict limits on lot sizes and building heights, preventing anyone from building mansions or large commercial complexes.

And accessibility is explicitly geared towards SoCal locals. Back in the day, all the ferries would give SoCal resident discounts (no doubt subsidized by higher fares on nonresident tickets). These days the arguments circle more around cruise ships... or at least they did before the pandemic. After years of haranguing the Catalinans decided against building a cruise ship dock to allow larger vessels, and in 2019 started putting weekly limits on those. All with the intention on ensuring Catalina remains primarily focused on visitors from the SoCal region.

I've been told that given Catalina's location and geography, with the right development emphasis it could equal Ibiza or Madeira as a tourist destination. I remember this proposal being shopped around in the early 2010s for a cruise ship dock and an airport capable of landing regional airliners. There was a developer lined up to pay for the whole thing, all they needed was someone to say yes.



It never went anywhere. The Catalinans wouldn't even hear of it.

Normally I'm YIMBY as they come, but I gotta say this is one I'm pretty positive. In such a media soaked region it often feels like the whole world is sharing the city with you, which I love, but it's nice to have this one small thing that's really ours, a special kind of hangout few outsiders really know about.

[ilcapo]

Not my city, but i can see Gothenburg, Sweden somewhere on the British Islands.

It is known to rain alot there, and lots of Wind and clouds, but generally a bit warmer than Stockholm.

There is a 30 years or so old joke that "Everyone is named Glenn in Gothenburg" because of the local football team at a time had 3 players named Glenn.
Glenn/Glen is a Celtic name and is more common in Gothenburg than elsewhere in Sweden.

Also 200 years ago it was called "Little London" due to alot of Scottish and English business-men invested in the City and therefore alot of the street names and squares have names such as Chapmans Torg and Chalmers University.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by ilcapo

Not my city, but i can see Gothenburg, Sweden somewhere on the British Islands.

It is known to rain alot there, and lots of Wind and clouds, but generally a bit warmer than Stockholm.

There is a 30 years or so old joke that "Everyone is named Glenn in Gothenburg" because of the local football team at a time had 3 players named Glenn.
Glenn/Glen is a Celtic name and is more common in Gothenburg than elsewhere in Sweden.

Also 200 years ago it was called "Little London" due to alot of Scottish and English business-men invested in the City and therefore alot of the street names and squares have names such as Chapmans Torg and Chalmers University.

interesting, never knew any of this connection to the british isles. i just know of the reverse connection and my apparent scandinavian via the british isles ancestry.

i hear gothenburg though and i just hear an In Flames show spooling up.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp

I've been told that given Catalina's location and geography, with the right development emphasis it could equal Ibiza or Madeira as a tourist destination. I remember this proposal being shopped around in the early 2010s for a cruise ship dock and an airport capable of landing regional airliners. There was a developer lined up to pay for the whole thing, all they needed was someone to say yes.

It never went anywhere. The Catalinans wouldn't even hear of it.

Normally I'm YIMBY as they come, but I gotta say this is one I'm pretty positive. In such a media soaked region it often feels like the whole world is sharing the city with you, which I love, but it's nice to have this one small thing that's really ours, a special kind of hangout few outsiders really know about.

Agreed. There's plenty of other islands around the world that IG influencers can flock to.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I'd say it's a bigger and more booming upscale version of Cleveland surrounded by LA and with lots of splatters of Brickell Miami.

The character of the suburbs is more like LA especially with the sheer amount of new detached tract housing and massive 8 to 20 lane freeways and interchanges.

Eh, I disagree. Toronto's suburban sprawl patterns tend to be more irregular, resembling Schaumburg or the newer sections of Naperville in Chicagoland. LA subdivisions still follow a grid layout, and the housing typologies are also quite different... lots of single-story bungalows and ranch-style homes. Toronto has a lot more two-story McMansion-like SFHs that would've been popular in the 80s and 90s, rather than the 60s and 70s when the LA metro was filling up.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

interesting, never knew any of this connection to the british isles. i just know of the reverse connection and my apparent scandinavian via the british isles ancestry.

i hear gothenburg though and i just hear an In Flames show spooling up.

now I need to dig out my In Flames 2007 tour t-shirt from wherever it might be...

[badrunner]

Don't Ibiza my Catalina!

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I think that part of the reason that the Catalina Islands are not as connected with LA as might be expected is that the latter, while being within about 15 miles from the coast, is really an inland city.

No, the only reason the Channel Islands don't feel as "connected" to the mainland is because it has been intentionally kept undeveloped. Of the eight islands, four are part of a national park, two are occupied by the navy, one is tiny, and most of Catalina is owned by the Catalina Island Conservancy, which is a private landholding that doesn't allow any development.