Oakland A's Propose $12 Billion Ballpark Project; Vow to Privately Finance Stadium

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

bring the A's back to Philly

A nice fantasy, but I can't see MLB ever increasing its 2-team markets at this point. The A's will leave the bay area and the White Sox will leave Chicago before philly (or any other US metro) gets a 2nd team.

If you were drawing up MLB from scratch in 2021, NYC and LA would be the only metros to warrant two teams.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

If you really want to help the area that surrounds the coliseum, how about a huge medical center, some institution of higher learning, what about thousands and thousands of housing units, etc. I can think of a ton of things that would all fit in that land and be of a much better use. But I digress, nothing will ever happen. Too much drama and naysaying.

Housing, absolutely. The Bay Area should be looking under every rock for ways to house people, and this spot would put them close to both rail and ferries as well as walkable jobs.

A medical center or college sound tougher. First, is one of them looking for a new campus? That would need to be a starting point. New ones are rare, and huge bets for whoever is behind them. That said, if someone (let's say UC) wanted to establish another campus, that could be a good spot. Colleges do great things for adding vibrancy, with people coming and going at different hours vs. regular offices and housing. For a hospital, California doesn't seem to have a certificate of need system (where regulators limit hospital capacity to avoid overbuilding) so who knows, but someone would need to take a leap.

[thoughtcriminal]

the history of expansion and relocation in MLB is very messed up. deserving markets could have ended up with teams with much less instability and drama that surrounded those expansion / relocation events. they would do stupid things like move the A's out of Kansas City, only to replace them with the Royals 2 years later. if they determined that KC wasn't a viable MLB market, why replace them in just 2 years? why allow the A's to move from there in the first place instead of selling them to the Royals ownership group and just keeping them there? what they really should have done is moved the St Louis Browns to Kansas City (KC baseball fans followed St Louis baseball teams), and kept the A's in Philly (Philly's big enough for 2 teams but St Louis is not). Instead, the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the present day Orioles. Not that Baltimore doesn't deserve a team. But the original AL Orioles moved to NY and became the Highlanders, who changed their name later to the Yankees.
then there's the Seattle Pilots, who after just one year in Seattle (1969) moved to Milwaukee to become the Brewers. then the Mariners came into the league in 1977. Same thing; why allow an expansion team into the market if you're just going to move them after one year? so short-sighted.
California could have gotten its teams by declaring the Pacific Coast league a major league, which they almost did. it was a league that was above AAA but the NL and AL wouldn't allow them into their ranks as a major league. if they had allowed the PCL to become a major league, the Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants might have stayed in NYC, although the Dodgers were also looking at Minneapolis.
lots more examples like that.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

California could have gotten its teams by declaring the Pacific Coast league a major league, which they almost did. it was a league that was above AAA but the NL and AL wouldn't allow them into their ranks as a major league.

Yes, a lot of the stupid baseball team musical chairs in the 50s/60s could have been avoided if the PCL had simply been allowed to join MLB.

But with three major leagues, the world series would have gotten fucked up. I guess they could have just split up the 8 PCL teams, 4 into the AL and 4 into the NL.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yes, a lot of the stupid baseball team musical chairs in the 50s/60s could have been avoided if the PCL had simply been allowed to join MLB.

But with three major leagues, the world series would have gotten fucked up. I guess they could have just split up the 8 PCL teams, 4 into the AL and 4 into the NL.

they'd have figured it out. playoffs with a wild card, or else as you suggest, split PCL teams into the AL and NL.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

MLB has a real problem with popularity compared to the NFL and NBA, pace/length of game issues, cheating, and a commissioner who doesn't appear to know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground. Also, way too many owners crying poor and willingly acting like minor league teams for teams in bigger markets (see the Seattle Mariners and Colorado Rockies)

NBA I will grant you is doing better, but the NFL is just a poor deal for cities. Colossal multi-billion-dollar stadiums, 8 home games a year. What city is angling for an NFL expansion team?

If you want to talk about MLB cheating, gotta also mention deflate-gate, the ongoing drama over CTE, and the crackdown on player protest for football.

It's like all the small market owners and front office staff watched "Major League" and thought the owner was the hero of the story.

This is every sport, who thinks team owners are decent people?

[MolsonExport]

MLB leadership has been a cast of asinine assclowns for decades. Playing musical chairs with host cities. Supporting billionaire owners with their brinkmanship efforts to extract insane amounts of funding for new ballparks (to replace some that are barely 20 years old) from the taxpaying public. Doing business with horribly corrupt individuals like Jeffrey Loria/David Samson (fuck those fucking fuckers for all fucking eternity, for fucking engineering the destruction of the Expos).

[Buckeye Native 001]

^I collect t-shirts of defunct/relocated teams. Even in Arizona, I will have people come up to me when I'm wearing my Expos shirt to talk about how Montreal got shafted. I'm also asked by people of a certain age if I'm related to Le Grande Orange, but our names are spelled differently.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Yea.... I was going to say MLB would probably do well to lose a few teams and re-balance.

I'm a huge proponent of either contracting or relocating both the Reds and the Bengals out of Cincinnati. I think the city will be better off in the long run after they raze the stadiums and urbanize the riverfront (maybe keep the Reds Hall of Fame for the good memories it generates?).

I actively hate being a fan of both teams and neither has ownership that knows what the fuck they're doing, regardless of their respective histories (or in the Bengals' case, the lack thereof).

Originally Posted by ardecila

NBA I will grant you is doing better, but the NFL is just a poor deal for cities. Colossal multi-billion-dollar stadiums, 8 home games a year. What city is angling for an NFL expansion team?

If you want to talk about MLB cheating, gotta also mention deflate-gate, the ongoing drama over CTE, and the crackdown on player protest for football.

NFL has massive problems, but is hugely popular. I prefer college football myself, which has a whole slew of issues as well, but the NFL makes a fuck ton of money.

If I remember right, the NFL also has a salary cap and/or collective bargaining agreement unlike MLB where the owners make money hand over fist regardless of the product on the field. The TV rights alone keep the NFL in the black. I don't think MLB has anything close to the same TV revenue as the NFL and frankly, who nowadays wants to watch four plus hours of baseball unless its the Dodgers, Yankees or maybe also the Red Sox or Cubs?

But their owners and enablers (looking at you, Hamilton County, Ohio) are all horrible people.

[TexasPlaya]

NFL wouldn't be where it is without fantasy football and now gambling. It's just such a better game compared to fantasy MLB or NBA. My office doesn't have a fantasy MLB league..... but we sure have a NFL league.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I'm a huge proponent of either contracting or relocating both the Reds and the Bengals out of Cincinnati. I think the city will be better off in the long run after they raze the stadiums and urbanize the riverfront (maybe keep the Reds Hall of Fame for the good memories it generates?).

I actively hate being a fan of both teams and neither has ownership that knows what the fuck they're doing, regardless of their respective histories (or in the Bengals' case, the lack thereof).

I really don't know what MLB can do.... it's always the same teams winning and getting most of the attention (Dodgers/NYY/Red Sox/Cubs).

I prefer the NBA, but it also has a competition problem.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by mhays

What's the story in Portland? I thought they had viable ideas, though the waterfront location seems to have an issue with limited access. Portland seems like a viable location...like Seattle it has the best summer weather in the US, and it's big enough to support another team. I'd recommend a retractable roof for April of course.

The A's are indeed acting like a team that could move. We saw the same pattern with the Sonics, albeit after a sale to an obvious carpetbagger.

All of the urban sights are weird and have finicky land owners. One is a derelict mall that's on life support, some lumber dock in a wasteland part of town and a school property near the basketball arena but that area is a highway and transit rats nest. Plus getting anything done in multnomah county is insufferabley difficult. There is a reason our population is plateauing while the surrounding counties are booming...

[edale]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I'm a huge proponent of either contracting or relocating both the Reds and the Bengals out of Cincinnati. I think the city will be better off in the long run after they raze the stadiums and urbanize the riverfront (maybe keep the Reds Hall of Fame for the good memories it generates?).

What the fuck? All this talk of teams moving from city to city, and the flippant attitude the MLB has traditionally had about relocating teams, and you want to move the oldest, most established team in the country? It's very rare to find a team more enmeshed into the fiber of a city than what the Reds have with Cincinnati. They've been the hometown team since 1896, and opening day is quite literally treated as a local holiday. It's perfectly normal for kids to get pulled out of school, people to call off work, etc to attend the opening day parade downtown, even if they aren't going to the actual game. I got to attend 2 opening days with my dad as a kid, and each time felt like a big deal.

But sure, let's move them out of town because of current ownership or lack of playoff success. Makes a ton of sense

Now the Bengals really could go for all I care. I'd prefer they stay, as I begrudgingly still find myself rooting for them, but they've truly been a horrible organization for my entire lifetime. They're also hostile to the community and have been responsible for many of the delays the riverfront development has faced.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I just, they can't compete with the Yankees or Dodgers long term (most teams can't) and haven't even won a playoff series since 1995.

I'm mostly being facetious and am frustrated with the years of futility and constant rebuilding that never appears to materialize. Castellini clearly has no interest in buying/fostering a contender and for whatever reason, MLB has it out for the Reds this season (Castellanos and Garret suspensions)

Opening Day is a hallowed tradition, but the last one I attended, the home plate umpire died on the field so I'm a bit warped.

And again, I hate the league's hypocrisy with all the gambling shit being okay now while Pete Rose and the Black Sox are still shunned. The talks of the As (and in the past, the Diamondbacks owner also reached out) moving to the mecca of gambling is insulting.

MLB has no reverence for its own game, and what little it acts like it cares about is monetized and exploited to the point of absurdity, and to the detriment of most of it's teams besides a select few.

[dimondpark]

This is hellllllla funny. Kudos to city leaders for turning the tables. It doesnt matter in the grand scheme but this is funny to me.

Originally Posted by Mercury News

‘Confirm your intentions’: Oakland city council leaders push back on MLB, A’s relocation talks

y ANNIE SCIACCA | asciacca@bayareanewsgroup.com | Bay Area News Group
May 14, 2021 at 2:45 p.m.
Oakland’s City Council leaders are pushing back after Major League Baseball publicly instructed the A’s to look outside the city for a new home as they await city approval of their proposed $12 billion waterfront ballpark and mixed-use development.

In a letter sent Friday to MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred, three city council members said the council “is committed to negotiating in good faith for a strong future for the A’s in Oakland, and we invite the A’s and MLB to do the same by agreeing not to seek relocation while the A’s complete the project process as the Council moves forward.”


On Tuesday, A’s President Dave Kaval announced the team had support from the MLB to look elsewhere — a reveal that many perceived as a tactic to put pressure on the city to approve the plans for the massive project.

The team submitted the terms for the proposal only late last month, requesting quick approval before the city council’s summer recess.

The letter to Manfred, signed by Council President Nikki Fortunato Bas, Vice Mayor Rebecca Kaplan and Councilmember Carroll Fife, who represents the district encompassing the site, explains that the council was exploring the request and meeting with A’s staff and others to move forward.

“We were asked to schedule it prior to the summer recess, and were in the process, when instead MLB announced that apparently you have been given incorrect information that City leadership is refusing to work with the A’s, and you have announced your plan to enable their relocation to a new city,” the council leaders wrote to Manfred. “This relocation announcement came without giving the Council an opportunity to receive and vote on a proposal, and did not even wait for the time requested for the vote.”...

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/05/...ocation-talks/

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

MLB leadership has been a cast of asinine assclowns for decades. Playing musical chairs with host cities. Supporting billionaire owners with their brinkmanship efforts to extract insane amounts of funding for new ballparks (to replace some that are barely 20 years old) from the taxpaying public. Doing business with horribly corrupt individuals like Jeffrey Loria/David Samson (fuck those fucking fuckers for all fucking eternity, for fucking engineering the destruction of the Expos).

Do you want one of these AssClowns to move to Montreal? Isn't that one of the many reasons why the Expos left Montreal, local hostility?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Do you want one of these AssClowns to move to Montreal? Isn't that one of the many reasons why the Expos left Montreal, local hostility?

why are you asking me? You can easily find out the answer for yourself, cannedairspray.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by mhays

Housing, absolutely. The Bay Area should be looking under every rock for ways to house people, and this spot would put them close to both rail and ferries as well as walkable jobs.

A medical center or college sound tougher. First, is one of them looking for a new campus? That would need to be a starting point. New ones are rare, and huge bets for whoever is behind them. That said, if someone (let's say UC) wanted to establish another campus, that could be a good spot. Colleges do great things for adding vibrancy, with people coming and going at different hours vs. regular offices and housing. For a hospital, California doesn't seem to have a certificate of need system (where regulators limit hospital capacity to avoid overbuilding) so who knows, but someone would need to take a leap.

Interestingly enough, Gov. Newsom has announced he wants to fund a new state polytechnic university. The Coliseum site would be a suitable location, considering its size and the fact it is served by Amtrak's Coast Starlight, the Capitol Corridor interurban (between Sacramento and San Jose) railroad, three BART lines, and eight bus lines (including an all-nighter).

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

why are you asking me? You can easily find out the answer for yourself, cannedairspray.

On a forum used for sharing information and opinions with each other, I thought I would first ask a local before googling. The first hit I found was a bleacher report article from 2008 btw.

At one point I thought you were advocating for Montreal to become an MLB city once again, but then your follow up post about MLB asinine assclowns made it seem you would prefer Montreal to not become MLB city?

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

bring them back to Philly, where they never should have left.

Well...the wrong team left for sure.

The Philadelphia A's still have more World Series Wins than the Philadelphia Phillies.

As for the rendering....the view of the cranes beyond the outfield doesn't seem pleasing.

The A's left Philadelphia because that is what the Yankees wanted. Their stench was all over that relocation.

The A's were in very bad shape financially by 1954. The Mack family couldn't keep it going. Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium was a dump by the 50's and it was in a declining neighborhood with no parking and hard to get to by car. They had an agreement with a group from Philly but the Yankees basically engineered the sale to Arnold Johnson who had a ton of ties with the Yankees. The Phillies had to end up buying the stadium because Johnson didn't want it and they Phillies didn't want to buy it but they had no choice. So, the A's moved to Kansas City where they just became another Yankees farm team through trades. The A's would still stink. They would get good young players. The Yankees would trade for them and give them has beens back...and by the 60's the A's were off to Oakland.

[Steely Dan]

^ you Philly guys still seem sore about losing the As. It was 67 years ago, how many real-deal old-timer As fans can there be left?


Anyway, some group in Portland that's trying to persuade the As to leave Oakland released a rendering of a waterfront stadium in Portland. Retractable roof for the drizzly PNW.


Source: https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/jo...outputType=amp