Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[borkborkbork]

I don't know anything about transportation, but my assumption is that if you put a giant outer ring around the city, the natural consequence will be the intensification of exurban sprawl in the RM bedroom communities.

Of all the infrastructure priorities to pursue, I can't think of one that would be more disastrous for the future of the city.

[Biff]

It's not a real thing. We were just playing around with alignments in a what-if scenario.

[thurmas]

It took winnipeg 65 years to double in size to its current cma population of 835k from 1956 to 2021. There is more than enough room just in the southwest corner of the perimeter between Waverly west and charleswood to add hundreds of thousands of people. There will likely never be a need for a future ring road as the birth rate is so low we will likely see European type population declines in 50 years time.

[esquire]

As the South Perimeter moves more to a local transportation function, I could see the need to eventually build a bypass for through traffic, particularly long distance trucks. The model would be Regina's new bypass. I could see it happening within the next 20 years.

However, the good news is that it wouldn't necessarily require another full ring around the city. Basically it would be a new 4 lane highway from roughly Lorette-Sainte Adolphe-Saint Francois Xavier. 2 bridges (over the CN main line and the Red River) and 5 interchanges (Trans Canada east/CP main line, Trans Canada west, PTH 75, PTH 59, PTH 3), so not massively ambitious.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

As the South Perimeter moves more to a local transportation function, I could see the need to eventually build a bypass for through traffic, particularly long distance trucks. The model would be Regina's new bypass. I could see it happening within the next 20 years.

However, the good news is that it wouldn't necessarily require another full ring around the city. Basically it would be a new 4 lane highway from roughly Lorette-Sainte Adolphe-Saint Francois Xavier. 2 bridges (over the CN main line and the Red River) and 5 interchanges (Trans Canada east/CP main line, Trans Canada west, PTH 75, PTH 59, PTH 3), so not massively ambitious.

The South Perimeter Safety Study had traffic volume forecasts up to 2050 and it seems as though the highway can manage just fine with new interchanges and 6 lanes. Maybe some spots will need a 4th. Things should still be moving smoothly for the next few decades and by that time the population should be nearing its peak. I can't imagine needing a whole other bypass around Winnipeg.

[Hockey]

Drove the perimeter highway :

- The design of the 59N inter change is remarkable (best in province), especially the high speed EB off ramp that serves both southbound and northbound exits

- Still on 59N, I really like Grand Beach as the control city on the overhead green sign. Makes it sound like you may be driving in California.

- IMO the median closures are such an improvemnt and required. I was happy to see so many closed including the Brady landfill.

- CCW interchange had trucks all over it. Money well spent

- Speaking of traffic, the perimeter is as busy as ever. It seems like 3 lanes (or 6 in both directions) will be required sooner than 30 years from now - anecdotally

- St.Mary's interchange is more than just a diamond. The EB road looks to be moving south or at least work is being done EB between St.M and St. A

- It is positive that 3 interchanges on PTH100 are in progress (St.M and 2/3/McGillvray (design in a few months), and St.A (service road work first))

[Hecate]

I disagree about the 59 perimeter interchange. It’s so over built, multiple pointless extra bridges for extra exit lanes that you don’t see anywhere else in the world but here. Why do they do that here? Why does mc Phillips need an entirely separate lane for the exits on the westbound side but not on the eastbound? Doesn’t make any freaking sense. Should have been a simple cloverleaf at 59 with the extra money going to build another interchange at birds hill. Any leftover money should go to replacing the Henderson overpass, the north perimeter is a death trap with all the extra traffic over the last decade. The exit from main onto eastbound 101 is just horrendous, ever try merging into traffic there at rush hour. Same with 59 and Concordia. Always cars stuck waiting to merge because the traffic is so bad now. Backed up ever freaking day. Opening chief peguis to lag disrupted traffic flow so much in the north eastern part of the city it’s constantly rush hour around there. Then you have the truck traffic which just slows everything down even more. Add on all the little uncontrolled intersections for fun too. Dunning and 59 is a great one. Surprised there’s no deaths there daily. Try turning onto 59 on a Saturday morning. Or try turning left onto dunning from 59 when heading south. Good fucking luck. There’s easily a thousand people living near that intersection and there’s a gas station, bar, and restaurant right at the corner. Why is there no lights? Our highways are a joke. Just like our governments.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Hecate

I disagree about the 59 perimeter interchange. It’s so over built, multiple pointless extra bridges for extra exit lanes that you don’t see anywhere else in the world but here. Why do they do that here? Why does mc Phillips need an entirely separate lane for the exits on the westbound side but not on the eastbound? Doesn’t make any freaking sense. Should have been a simple cloverleaf at 59 with the extra money going to build another interchange at birds hill.

The 59/101 interchange is fairly standard for two divided roads meeting each other.

A cloverleaf would be a bad design, because it means entering and exiting traffic is weaving. They don't build them anymore because of this reason.

Edit: It looks like the entrance/exit ramp geometry for the north side of 101 is too tight for safe exiting/merging, hence the additional lane for acceleration/deceleration. Given that homes abut the corridor, I suspect limitations in improving that geometry would have been the issue. Perhaps having 59 be undivided through that section so that a parclo could be used might be the better option.

[bomberjet]

https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.51269.../data=!3m1!1e3

For example, this location on Anthony Henday is the same as 59N 101. It's basically the same interchange except the ring road is going N-S instead of E-w.

The layout is pretty much the same., The separated merge lanes are a safety feature, to prevent merging and weaving in the main traffic flow. The McPhillips location from the 60's even has it.

The 'extra' bridges at 59N/101 are a function of which road MTI wanted to go over. The want Perimeter to go over. If Perimeter went under, it would be identical to the Anthony Henday interchange. The main bridges are longer to go over the separated merge lanes.

Pretty standard cloverleaf interchange design.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The exit from main onto eastbound 101 is just horrendous, ever try merging into traffic there at rush hour. Same with 59 and Concordia. Always cars stuck waiting to merge because the traffic is so bad now. Backed up ever freaking day.

Portage and the Perimeter, especially east bound Portage to south bound Perimeter is especially bad currently with the volume of traffic. It is currently two lanes and the south Perimeter safety report has it actually expanding to 4 southbound lanes for about 1 km south of Portage Ave to allow merging traffic to get to speed and enter the lane.

[anthonyk]

[Wpgstvsouth94]

It’s coming along nicely! Wow

Does anyone know if the service road at st Anne’s is being connected to melnick over the tracks? Maybe they are finishing the first bit first?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

It’s coming along nicely! Wow

Does anyone know if the service road at st Anne’s is being connected to melnick over the tracks? Maybe they are finishing the first bit first?

Rail crossing won't be for a few years. They have to replace the bridge at Creek bend road over the Seine first. Then they can decomission the intersection at sioux rd and Aimes and put in the rail crossing.

They have to do the creek bend bridge first because Sioux/Aimes is too close to the rail tracks for a safety standards. If they close the intersection, businesses on Sioux would have to send trucks on creek bend road and the bridge can't handle the weight in its current state

[Biff]

The RFP for that bridge replacement - Engineering Design just closed with the City.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

If only they had started last year. It had perfect dry conditions for the road bed and approach embankments.

That is a lot of water to contend with this year.

[bomberjet]

I know some folks working on site at St. Mary's. Lots of water this past week. Work on the embankments was halted and they were doing pumping ops.

[esquire]

Amazing. First new interchange on the south Perimeter since the one at Roblin Blvd was built about 45 years ago.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Amazing. First new interchange on the south Perimeter since the one at Roblin Blvd was built about 45 years ago.

Expand that thinking a little beyond the south Perimeter. St Marys is the third new interchange on the Perimeter in about the past 12 years but the 33 years or so before that had nothing new built.

Hopefully the pace of 1 interchange every 3-4 years keeps going as HWY 6 and a simple diamond at Pipeline make the north Perimeter from 59N to Roblin completely free flowing. Gunn Rd/Oakbank Cooridor also desperately need to happen. Transcona development is pushed right up against the east Perimeter now and without even a traffic light there we will see more fatalities at that intersection. In the past it has had far more fatalities than St Marys but you know need to secure those provincial votes for 2023.

[esquire]

^ It's laudable that the north Perimeter has received some desperately needed attention too, but it never went this long without a new interchange. And it can certainly use more. The lack of an interchange/overpass at Dugald Road is a joke... 2 birds with one stone there.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by thurmas

It took winnipeg 65 years to double in size to its current cma population of 835k from 1956 to 2021. There is more than enough room just in the southwest corner of the perimeter between Waverly west and charleswood to add hundreds of thousands of people. There will likely never be a need for a future ring road as the birth rate is so low we will likely see European type population declines in 50 years time.

Once climate change hits the southern US hard I would imagine the metro area will push out to Sanford.