The Unmasking Thread

[JHikka]

It's been incredibly pleasing to see the anti-mask marches get smaller, and smaller, and smaller with each passing week.

[urbandreamer]

Anti maskers are mostly small business owners: barbers, restaurants, service industry people. Regular working people don't have time for this.

MonctonRad, I'm somewhat concerned about my yearly CT scans. (The C word is scary - my sister had colon cancer.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Anti maskers are mostly small business owners: barbers, restaurants, service industry people. Regular working people don't have time for this.

The contrast established in this post was deliberate sarcasm, I hope.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

MonctonRad, I'm somewhat concerned about my yearly CT scans. (The C word is scary - my sister had colon cancer.)

Hard to comment on your concerns without knowing why you are having annual examinations. I presume there is a good reason or else your doctor wouldn't be asking for them. For certain screening examinations (like for pulmonary nodules/lung cancer screening, or for renal stones) we routinely use "low dose technique", which substantially reduces radiation exposure. You should ask your doctor.

By and large radiologists mostly get their knickers in a knot when we're asked to do multiple CT examinations in pediatric patients, or in younger patients with GI issues (inflammatory bowel disease, recurrent small bowel obstructions due to adhesions, etc.) Most other times the reasons for asking for the examinations outweigh any potential risk.

[urbandreamer]

^Thanks yes a pulmonary nodule was discovered while checking for TC. (I've never smoked but believe my childhood home had asbestos insulation.) I was wondering if I could maybe do it every 18 months instead?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Migs

I think this is referred to as intolerance.

Lol I was waiting for you to post some such nonsense. I take it you are an anti masker / anti vaxxer who believes that Bill Gates wants to microchip you?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

^Thanks yes a pulmonary nodule was discovered while checking for TC. (I've never smoked but believe my childhood home had asbestos insulation.) I was wondering if I could maybe do it every 18 months instead?

Again it depends. Screening protocols typically ask for annual screening x3, with any additional screening at physician discretion.

There is a type of nodule however (ground glass nodule) that we tend to be more aggressive about with screening. These types of nodules are associated with "atypical adenomatous hyperplasia/adenocarcinoma in situ." They are a sort of pulmonary correlate to "atypical ductal hyperplasia/ductal carcinoma in situ" which can be found in the breast, or to hyperplasia/low grade carcinoma in the prostate.

These nodules can lie dormant (or semi dormant) in the lungs for years before slowly changing in size or appearance, which is an indication of change in behaviour and dedifferentiation, meaning the tumour is becoming more aggressive and something needs to be done about it. These ground glass nodules unfortunately require long term follow-up and annual low dose helical CT.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's likely there and discussed among people who are of a similar frame of mind, but they're understandably extremely careful about who they bring it up with and obviously would never write anything about it in an email.

You're probably just not part of their (assumed) in-group.

The workplace culture is highly progressive and anyone who wasn't of that mindset would be very uncomfortable on a regular basis. A manager was fired last year for posting stuff about the Aunt Jemima thing online for example.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The contrast established in this post was deliberate sarcasm, I hope.

Deliberate? Almost certainly. Sarcasm? You're being too kind I think.

[urbandreamer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Again it depends. Screening protocols typically ask for annual screening x3, with any additional screening at physician discretion.

There is a type of nodule however (ground glass nodule) that we tend to be more aggressive about with screening. These types of nodules are associated with "atypical adenomatous hyperplasia/adenocarcinoma in situ." They are a sort of pulmonary correlate to "atypical ductal hyperplasia/ductal carcinoma in situ" which can be found in the breast, or to hyperplasia/low grade carcinoma in the prostate.

These nodules can lie dormant (or semi dormant) in the lungs for years before slowly changing in size or appearance, which is an indication of change in behaviour and dedifferentiation, meaning the tumour is becoming more aggressive and something needs to be done about it. These ground glass nodules unfortunately require long term follow-up and annual low dose helical CT.

Thanks. I need to ask specific questions next time I see the doctor (difficult because the doctor speaks thickly accented English & is doing mostly phone apts.) Can I request a copy of the CT image? I often find doctors vague and rushed. I like to do thorough research and know as much as possible.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

From afar, it seems as though every major Canadian publication, television network, government official, public body, corporation and association of any standing is unanimous on the need to wear masks, maintain social distancing, vaccinate as soon as possible and the whole bit.

And yet I still hear this concern about the deniers, the anti-maskers, the assholes.

You all know that operations of this scale will not enjoy 100% compliance, right? I mean... relax. The institutions are fully on-side. This is what winning looks like!

As I posted in the Covid thread I saw 3 people refusing to wear masks with zero pushback at the grocery store on Sunday. I routinely see at least 1 of these assholes almost every time I go out. I’ve asked stores what their policies are and the response is always that they have signs up but won’t enforce it. Even had a manager at a toy store side with an unmasked woman and her 4 unmasked children ranging in age from about 7-12. Apparently they all were exempt for some mysterious, non specified or valid reason. That same visit there was another woman and her child parading around unmasked. Needless to say we won’t be returning to Mastermind toys.

Oh, also on a visit to the Devonian gardens last week there was a woman seated at the food court hacking up a lung with her mask down around her chin. Lovely.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

You all know that operations of this scale will not enjoy 100% compliance, right? I mean... relax. The institutions are fully on-side. This is what winning looks like!

This is a good point - was actually having a conversation over drinks with friends (in a park, as one does now...) about how the general compliance is VERY high compared to pretty much anything else. Mostly a good thing IMO, but there is a bent that you must be absolutely supportive of every action even when some don't exactly make sense. That is kinda coming to light a bit more as of late here in Ontario.

As to the question at end, the most extreme I've personally seen in my extended group of acquaintances is actually paranoia and shaming surrounding any sort of activity during COVID. Almost all of these people live alone in small apartments / condos, and took the "stay at home" messaging a bit too literally and as a result have been cooped up way too long. At this point I wouldn't post pictures of drinks in my backyard with friends as there'd be a good chance I'd get a DM telling us how irresponsible we're being (I have friends who have experienced this)! It's almost like a form of Stockholm Syndrome and can't be good for mental health.

I don't know any anti-mask types but I'm sure the same thing (in the exact opposite sense) is happening on that end.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

As I posted in the Covid thread I saw 3 people refusing to wear masks with zero pushback at the grocery store on Sunday. I routinely see at 1 of these assholes almost every time I go out.

Well, yeah. It's not going to be absolute. It's a huge thing and it's been going on for a while.

You can be happy you are not in Stockholm, though. Only about 10-15% of people wear masks here, with 5,000+ cases/day right now, and -- without exception -- they also all wear the expressions of people who wish there was a law.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by niwell

This is a good point - was actually having a conversation over drinks with friends (in a park, as one does now...) about how the general compliance is VERY high compared to pretty much anything else. Mostly a good thing IMO, but there is a bent that you must be absolutely supportive of every action even when some don't exactly make sense. That is kinda coming to light a bit more as of late here in Ontario.

As to the question at end, the most extreme I've personally seen in my extended group of acquaintances is actually paranoia and shaming surrounding any sort of activity during COVID. Almost all of these people live alone in small apartments / condos, and took the "stay at home" messaging a bit too literally and as a result have been cooped up way too long. At this point I wouldn't post pictures of drinks in my backyard with friends as there'd be a good chance I'd get a DM telling us how irresponsible we're being (I have friends who have experienced this)! It's almost like a form of Stockholm Syndrome and can't be good for mental health.

I don't know any anti-mask types but I'm sure the same thing (in the exact opposite sense) is happening on that end.

That's been my experience as well.

As MonctonRad correctly pointed out, most people have no idea on how to calculate risk and many end up going to one extreme or the other.

You hear about people who have locked themselves in their apartment for 12 months now and complain about having seen their parents or friends only a handful or even no times since then.. And I just wonder why. There are ways to socialize safely, ways to see family with minimal risk, which can have a huge impact on your mental health. Yet they insist that you have to avoid that 0.1% chance of catching a disease with a 0.1% chance of having a major impact on you and eat the terrible mental health effects.

I just don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I have been dolefully following Public health recommendations generally, but I weigh the risk of activities and make sure to continue to see my core friend and family group in a safe manner. At the end of the day you can go sit in a backyard or go for a walk or something with a friend or family member and have basically 0 transmission risk. I have enough mental health impacts from this whole thing already even with that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

This is a good point - was actually having a conversation over drinks with friends (in a park, as one does now...) about how the general compliance is VERY high compared to pretty much anything else. Mostly a good thing IMO, but there is a bent that you must be absolutely supportive of every action even when some don't exactly make sense. That is kinda coming to light a bit more as of late here in Ontario.

As to the question at end, the most extreme I've personally seen in my extended group of acquaintances is actually paranoia and shaming surrounding any sort of activity during COVID. Almost all of these people live alone in small apartments / condos, and took the "stay at home" messaging a bit too literally and as a result have been cooped up way too long. At this point I wouldn't post pictures of drinks in my backyard with friends as there'd be a good chance I'd get a DM telling us how irresponsible we're being (I have friends who have experienced this)! It's almost like a form of Stockholm Syndrome and can't be good for mental health.

I don't know any anti-mask types but I'm sure the same thing (in the exact opposite sense) is happening on that end.

The highlighted is actually more what I've been experiencing and observing: judgement of people who are doing things that are technically allowed, but might be too borderline for the tastes of some.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The workplace culture is highly progressive and anyone who wasn't of that mindset would be very uncomfortable on a regular basis. A manager was fired last year for posting stuff about the Aunt Jemima thing online for example.

As I suspected.

I don't think that an absence of divergent views in that type of workplace is necessarily indicative of a unanimity of views (though probably still quite titled in one direction, I'd expect) there, and certainly not in wider society of course.

[hipster duck]

I expect - and welcome - about 5% dissent to a popular course of action, no matter how "open and shut" or controversial that course of action might be.

If 5% of people are against something, the collateral damage to society of this is still lower than the net benefit, which is that we keep authoritarianism, whether applied top-down by authorities, or bottom-up by citizens, in check.

So if 5% of people decide to be unmasking anti-vaxxers, we will still get herd immunity, but we don't risk becoming a totalitarian place that quashes the "radical" ideas that, in some cases, turn out to be accurate or the things that move our society forward in retrospect.

Now if 30% of people are unmasking anti-vaxxers, then we have a bit of a problem.

The trick is to make concessions to drive that number down, but never to zero.

If the number of dissenters seems high, it's because there are some policy areas where we are driving people to dissent without getting much in return. Closing schools that provide a place for hundreds of thousands of kids to socialize or eat a hot breakfast or have a respite from being at home with an abusive parent so that we can spare the lives of octogenarians and keep the ICU manageable is a good example.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Lol I was waiting for you to post some such nonsense. I take it you are an anti masker / anti vaxxer who believes that Bill Gates wants to microchip you?

Nope, I’m more pro-vaccine than anyone. I just find it amusing that people who claim to preach tolerance are by far the most intolerant and they don’t even know it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A lot of people just don't understand risk. You are much better off 99.99% of the time getting the vaccine (even AstroZenica) than not.

A good example in my field is paranoia over medical radiation exposure.

Also, I like to tell patients that their cumulative lifetime risk of getting cancer, just by virtue of being alive, is about 33%. If you get the CT scan, then that risk increases to 33.1%. Even if you get 10 CT scans, your cumulative cancer risk just increases to 34% from 33%. This usually puts things into perspective for the patient.

Risk is risk. You take a risk just by crossing the road.

I will agree with this generally, but specific to radiation exposure there have been some serious cases of overexposure (in children I think?) due to operator error more than anything else. There is regulation in many states around lifetime dose tracking now.

That said, it was the result of a few bad/stupid actors that has tainted the whole thing. I would not hesitate to get any kind of scan recommended by my doctor.

[WarrenC12]

I have 2 examples of acquaintances that have gone down different rabbit holes in strange ways.

1st: Very smart guy, quiet, always a bit of a loner, but has a good job, always super happy, nice. I don't know if it's a Trump/QAnon thing that went overboard during COVID, but now he's posting full on government control, Joe Biden is a fake (like he's been replaced by another person). Anti vax. Total lunacy.

2nd: Another smart, successful guy, has a family, good job, super social. Only in the last 3 months or so he's gone totally "COVID Zero". Endless tweets and clearly hours of pouring over articles and studies from around the world. Hyper focused on BC's problem being we opened K-12 schools in September. He has a kid that's too young to be in school so he doesn't have a direct personal interest. It's very strange. The level of obsession is intense. He's still working, but must be spending 4-8 hours a day on this stuff.