PHILADELPHIA | 418 Spring Garden Street | 151 FT | 12 FLOORS

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by MadhattersLT

Because Chestnut street is a shit show. Traffic is now compressed into less lanes. The city isn’t gonna maintain the roadway and those plastic poles in the street are already half destroyed. And the lanes were made more narrow so now emergency vehicles are having a hard time navigating. Same with the speed cushions they stuck on Cobbs Creek Parkway, made it worse.

More lanes =/= less traffic
This has been debunked countless numbers of times

[mja]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

What’s wrong with the west Chestnut redesign? It seems to have increased safety for pedestrians and drivers in that area.

It’s hell to drive from 34th to the river. I’ve given up trying to follow the lanes because no one else does.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by mja

It’s hell to drive from 34th to the river. I’ve given up trying to follow the lanes because no one else does.

You have the Septa 21 bus to help with that.

Spring Garden with actual bike lanes would even make the projects in that area worth more value. Hopefully the strip mall next to i95 will be developed as well along with that parking lot next to the gas station.

[MadhattersLT]

The traffic doesn’t go away it funnels onto smaller side streets which then in turn back up. And you pushing public transportation is ridiculous, you live in a city where people have to commute. Some use it others don’t. Public transportation is not a reality for me and a lot of others. Traffic on roads where they take away lanes is absolutely terrible.

[mja]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

You have the Septa 21 bus to help with that.

Spring Garden with actual bike lanes would even make the projects in that area worth more value. Hopefully the strip mall next to i95 will be developed as well along with that parking lot next to the gas station.

How is the 21 bus helping me avoid getting rear-ended when I'm trying to follow lanes that shift left, right, left, and then right again in the space of 3 blocks while other drivers plow ahead in straight lines?

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by MadhattersLT

The traffic doesn’t go away it funnels onto smaller side streets which then in turn back up. And you pushing public transportation is ridiculous, you live in a city where people have to commute. Some use it others don’t. Public transportation is not a reality for me and a lot of others. Traffic on roads where they take away lanes is absolutely terrible.

LOL about the public transportation comment. I'm not even gonna address that other than to say we live in a city and we're not going to design our infrastructure to move private vehicles across the city as fast as possible.

From what I understand 34th street to the river wasn't included in the Chestnut street redesign. (See the project proposal here: https://www.phila.gov/media/20221114...s_11.10.22.pdf) so your worries about that design being repeated on Walnut don't make much sense to me. Additionally, as you can see from the project proposal no travel lanes are even being removed. They're just removing the dedicated turn lane. I don't really understand your concern about drivers using the other roads in the area either. Why do we care? If you want to get to CC from UCity, you're using Chestnut, Market, or JFK. This isn't relevant here because, as I said, they're not removing any travel lanes, but reducing the number of lanes, and narrowing those lanes, slows down traffic in the remaining lanes. Drivers move slower when they have to pay attention. Traffic studies show this time and time again. The new lane configuration is objectively safer for drivers and pedestrians. As I said, the city's traffic data shows that.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by mja

How is the 21 bus helping me avoid getting rear-ended when I'm trying to follow lanes that shift left, right, left, and then right again in the space of 3 blocks while other drivers plow ahead in straight lines?

The lane shifting is a separate issue from the street redesign. The lanes shift at 34th street because of construction on the North side of the street. Once that finishes up that won't happen. They shift back at the end of the block (33rd) to rejoin traffic. Then at 30th the leftmost lane bares left slightly to accommodate what looks like a narrower bike lane on the other side of 30th. That doesn't make sense to me and I agree with you that it's strange. Although it's a very subtle shift and only one lane has to do it. It then shifts again to from four lanes to two lanes into center city. No compassion for you there. We're not turning Chestnut into a 4 lane highway through CC to accommodate some traffic confusion.

Again though, none of this has anything to do with the redesign because the redesign doesn't cover Chestnut from 34th to the river.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by MadhattersLT

The traffic doesn’t go away it funnels onto smaller side streets which then in turn back up. And you pushing public transportation is ridiculous, you live in a city where people have to commute. Some use it others don’t. Public transportation is not a reality for me and a lot of others. Traffic on roads where they take away lanes is absolutely terrible.

Can you explain to me, in plain English, what exactly you mean by the bolded? I’m trying to wrap my head around it.

Roughly where are you coming from, and where are you going? We certainly have gaps in our public transit, but I can almost guarantee that you can commute to where you’re going via another means than car.

[mja]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

The lane shifting is a separate issue from the street redesign. The lanes shift at 34th street because of construction on the North side of the street. Once that finishes up that won't happen. They shift back at the end of the block (33rd) to rejoin traffic. Then at 30th the leftmost lane bares left slightly to accommodate what looks like a narrower bike lane on the other side of 30th. That doesn't make sense to me and I agree with you that it's strange. Although it's a very subtle shift and only one lane has to do it. It then shifts again to from four lanes to two lanes into center city. No compassion for you there. We're not turning Chestnut into a 4 lane highway through CC to accommodate some traffic confusion.

Again though, none of this has anything to do with the redesign because the redesign doesn't cover Chestnut from 34th to the river.

I don't need a 4 lane highway. I just want lanes that people actually follow so that I don't get into a car accident. And the issues started before the construction. The construction has actually helped lessen confusion in a way because it's taken away so much of the shifting lanes that people don't even bother trying to follow them, but that's certainly not how it was planned. It's the shifting that's the problem--people are used to driving their cars in straight lines. There's got to be a better way.

Another example: Pennsylvania Ave from 26th to 25th is a train wreck. It goes from 2 lanes to 1 lane and a short lane-sized dead zone with a bike lane running through it that quickly then opens up into a turn lane to the right onto 25th but with the bike lane cutting left through it continuing on Pennsylvania. No one drives this nightmare correctly. People on the other side of Fairmount Ave. just plow straight ahead through the dead lane / bike lane and then you have the people like me trying to following the rules unable to get over even though we have the right of way. I've seen multiple accidents here and there's no way this can possibly be safer for cyclists.

There are many more throughout the city. These are just the two I have to deal with all of the time.

Again, I'm not anti-bike lane. I just want the planners to rethink some things. The plastic posts are awful and lane configurations that shift constantly are nigh undriveable.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by mja

I don't need a 4 lane highway. I just want lanes that people actually follow so that I don't get into a car accident. And the issues started before the construction. The construction has actually helped lessen confusion in a way because it's taken away so much of the shifting lanes that people don't even bother trying to follow them, but that's certainly not how it was planned. It's the shifting that's the problem--people are used to driving their cars in straight lines. There's got to be a better way.

Another example: Pennsylvania Ave from 26th to 25th is a train wreck. It goes from 2 lanes to 1 lane and a short lane-sized dead zone with a bike lane running through it that quickly then opens up into a turn lane to the right onto 25th but with the bike lane cutting left through it continuing on Pennsylvania. No one drives this nightmare correctly. People on the other side of Fairmount Ave. just plow straight ahead through the dead lane / bike lane and then you have the people like me trying to following the rules unable to get over even though we have the right of way. I've seen multiple accidents here and there's no way this can possibly be safer for cyclists.

There are many more throughout the city. These are just the two I have to deal with all of the time.

Again, I'm not anti-bike lane. I just want the planners to rethink some things. The plastic posts are awful and lane configurations that shift constantly are nigh undriveable.

So we're on the same page, the only (non-construction related) shift is crossing 30th, correct? I think a large part of the problem is actually people trying to get into or out of a turn only lane.

[mja]

Edit: We're getting super off-topic.

[Jawnadelphia]

Walking down 5th Street - how this view has changed over the 5 years. Wild.

The Carson on the right.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Walking down 5th Street - how this view has changed over the 5 years. Wild.

I'm confused. You don't think this looked better in 2011? (The dead tree is a nice touch.)

[SEFTA]

It would be great to see drone views over the area.
hint hint

[summersm343]

Steel Rises At 418 Spring Garden Street





Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2023/06/stee...ladelphia.html

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Can you explain to me, in plain English, what exactly you mean by the bolded? I’m trying to wrap my head around it.

Roughly where are you coming from, and where are you going? We certainly have gaps in our public transit, but I can almost guarantee that you can commute to where you’re going via another means than car.

I don't think it really matters. As someone who's always lived in Philadelphia but never worked in Philadelphia, I can tell you there is an acute frustration among people who do not work in Philadelphia County but who live here when urban transportation purists act like everyone works in or near Center City. Many of us would love that to be the case, but there is an insane amount of data showing that Center City accounts for among the lowest job share % relative to the region than nearly any major city in this country. Said differently, we have the most decentralized job distribution in the country. While yes, we shouldn't plan transportation around the car, the city needs us (people who work in the burbs and elsewhere) just as much if not moreso than we need you. There should be a modicum of sympathy for people who choose to lay down their heads in Philadelphia County (by choice) when they could get a 3.5% raise by moving their home across county lines.

I've always said, the best thing Philadelphia could do to improve transit ridership is to get more jobs into the core. And the best way to do that is through reforming the tax structure in the city of Philadelphia, but don't tell Gym and Gauthier and Brooks that because their heads will explode.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

It would be great to see drone views over the area.
hint hint

Coming soon, About to start the Drone & Photos back up

[summersm343]

Construction Passes Halfway Point At 418 Spring Garden Street



Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2023/07/cons...ladelphia.html

[cardeza]

How did someone manage to get graffitti on that elevator shaft already?

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't think it really matters. As someone who's always lived in Philadelphia but never worked in Philadelphia, I can tell you there is an acute frustration among people who do not work in Philadelphia County but who live here when urban transportation purists act like everyone works in or near Center City. Many of us would love that to be the case, but there is an insane amount of data showing that Center City accounts for among the lowest job share % relative to the region than nearly any major city in this country. Said differently, we have the most decentralized job distribution in the country. While yes, we shouldn't plan transportation around the car, the city needs us (people who work in the burbs and elsewhere) just as much if not moreso than we need you. There should be a modicum of sympathy for people who choose to lay down their heads in Philadelphia County (by choice) when they could get a 3.5% raise by moving their home across county lines.

I've always said, the best thing Philadelphia could do to improve transit ridership is to get more jobs into the core. And the best way to do that is through reforming the tax structure in the city of Philadelphia, but don't tell Gym and Gauthier and Brooks that because their heads will explode.

tax policy wont change much, many companies and people love the suburban office park lifestyle- they dont want to be in the city. Philly has very few natural barriers that would prevent office sprawl. Most of the cities above us on the lists you talk about have some sort of geographic issue that makes it more difficult to have huge sprawling office parks only a few miles outside of the city limits.