CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Busy Bee]

Gary! Gary! Has anything ever been more obvious than Gary?

[nomarandlee]

I know its been asked somewhere (and maybe no one knows for sure) but what are the estimates on on maximum expansion of Gary in terms of flights and passengers? Is it bound to be nothing more then an adjunct airport like Midway or does it have the potential to be much bigger?

[Latoso]

Illinois and Chicago are far too parochial for Gary to ever be a viable option. The only way it would happen, with any expedience anyway, is if Illinois annexed Lake County, Indiana and Gary were annexed by Chicago. If that highly unlikely scenario occurred, Peotone would be dead in a week and there would be federal funding approved for an expansion of Chicago's 3rd Airport (Gary) by the end of the year.

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by Latoso

Illinois and Chicago are far too parochial for Gary to ever be a viable option. The only way it would happen, with any expedience anyway, is if Illinois annexed Lake County, Indiana and Gary were annexed by Chicago. If that highly unlikely scenario occurred, Peotone would be dead in a week and there would be federal funding approved for an expansion of Chicago's 3rd Airport (Gary) by the end of the year.

There is federal funding already approved for the expansion of Gary...see note above. Gary has been a part of the Chicago System since 1995. Peotone will be under the control of IL while Gary will be controlled by Gary and Chicago.

The Gary Post Tribune reports today, in a lengthy story by Lisa Shidler:

Gary/Chicago International Airport backers say nothing can stop the airport from being a success now that it is snaring $57.84 million from the Federal Aviation Administration.

The go-ahead for the funding will bring 320 new jobs to the Gary area and energize Northwest Indiana’s economy, a bi-partisan coalition of state, local and national officials said Monday.

Airport leaders say the airport, which has been struggling to lure consistent scheduled passenger service, will now have an advantage once it can move the elevated railroad tracks and complete other projects including extending the runway.

Airport officials also are hopeful that airlines will take notice of this funding and will be more likely to consider starting scheduled passenger service here now that approval has been granted. * * *

King believes snagging this important funding will help the airport lure more airlines, but did say nothing is a guarantee.

“It’s always a bit of a dance,’’ he said when dealing with airlines and pointed out that Gary has had a number of carriers including Pan American Airlines, Southeast and most recently Hooters Air.

“Some say these are rinky dink,” King said. “But having these carriers contributed to showing that people will come here.”

Currently, Hooters has been providing scheduled passenger service out of Gary, but temporarily stopped its service until March.

Officials said the deal couldn’t have been approved without bi-partisan support.

Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels was also at the press conference at the airport on Monday, and said the announcement is just the start for positive news at the airport.

“This is just the beginning,’’ Daniels said. “Indiana’s got to act boldly. It’s just a great day for all of Indiana.”

"Gary airport lands the big one" is the headine to this story by Keith Benman in the Munster (NW Indiana) Times. Some quotes:
"This makes an emphatic statement this will be the next great Chicago airport," said Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels, standing at the airport terminal's west end as union construction workers and others looked on Monday afternoon.

The money will be used to add 2,000 feet to the northwest end of the airport's main runway. The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railroad tracks, which lie 130 feet from that end of the runway, will be moved westward. * * *

U.S. Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., a key player in securing the funding, pitched the Gary airport Monday as crucial to the economic health of the entire Chicago area.

"If we run out of airport capacity, our economy will stagnate," Bayh said from Washington earlier in the day. "We have to get beyond these petty jurisdictional battles."

The "petty battles" comment refers to the running feud between Chicago Mayor Richard Daley and U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. and his Illinois allies over Jackson's proposed Abraham Lincoln National Airport in south suburban Peotone.

"Gary/Chicago is a reality on the ground capable of serving people's needs, not a cornfield somewhere," Bayh added in another swipe at Peotone.

Another Times story reports:
Some south suburban Peotone residents hoped Monday's FAA pledge of $57.8 million to the Gary airport would help sound the death knell for a proposed airport near their community.

But recent activities and statements of the proposed Abraham Lincoln National Airport Commission show that supporters of a facility between Peotone and University Park are doing anything but giving up.

For several years, the Gary/Chicago International Airport and backers of a Peotone airport have been locked in a debate -- and a race to distinguish their respective plans as the third major Chicago-area airport.

Monday's announcement that the FAA has approved a letter of intent to fund Gary airport runway expansions and other face-lifts put the already established Indiana facility that much further ahead in the race.

Meanwhile, the Chicago Tribune reports today:
Indiana landed federal funding Monday for an almost $90 million project to expand Gary-Chicago International Airport, which has never been able to show its commercial viability despite its proximity to the Loop.

Indiana's governor, Gary's mayor and other dignitaries gathered in the passenger terminal of the underused airport to announce a pledge of $57.8 million in federal funding over 10 years from the U.S. Department of Transportation. * * *

Construction would start this year and be completed as early as 2008, by which time officials said they are confident several carriers seeking relief from congestion at O'Hare International and Midway Airports would be operating at Gary-Chicago, which is about a half-hour drive from the Loop.

Yet the only VIP missing from the crowd at Monday's funding celebration was an airline chief executive officer to announce new service starting up at Gary-Chicago, which Indiana officials tout as the Chicago area's future "third airport."

"The last time I looked, there was still corn and soybeans" at the proposed airport across the border in Illinois near Peotone, said Gary-Chicago airport director Paul Karas. "We are a functioning airport."

But Gary-Chicago once again offers no regularly scheduled airline service after Hooters Air suspended service on Jan. 9. The niche carrier said it may resume service at Gary as early as March.

For now, the airport survives on revenue from charter passenger flights, cargo operations, general aviation and corporations, including Chicago-based Boeing Co., which hangars its Midwest corporate jet fleet at Gary-Chicago.


Posted by Marcia Oddi on January 17, 2006 07:34 AM
Posted to Indiana economic development

[Chi_Coruscant]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sneed...s-sneed28.html

BY MICHAEL SNEED SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Yipes! Sneed hears rumbles the City of Chicago is about to deluge the DuPage County Courthouse with 600 eminent domain cases pertaining to the O'Hare expansion.

Court officials are scrambling to prepare for the onslaught that will certainly stretch the judicial resources out there.

Runways, runways. Runaway runways?

[VivaLFuego]

I'm happy about that Gary news....

there's a NICTD south shore stop thats perhaps a 3-5 minute drive from the terminal building. It is about a 50 minute train ride to downtown Chicago. Just coordinate a shuttle bus between the terminal and the NICTD stop, and voila, instant transit access.

If a few airlines come in to Gary, the 3rd airport question might just answer itself.

And it'd be great Indiana and NICTD ever get their act together on getting some more rail cars to run more trains to Chicago.

[BVictor1]

Well, I'm sure that this will be one of those 600 eminent domain cases mentioned above.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...0,129134.story

Church rejects offer to buy cemetery in O'Hare expansion path

Associated Press
Published April 28, 2006, 7:07 PM CDT


CHICAGO -- A suburban church has rejected the city of Chicago's offer to buy a cemetery in the path of the expansion of O'Hare International Airport, calling it "unacceptable and even blasphemous."

The church's decision comes one week before a federal appeals court will begin hearing oral arguments on whether moving the graves would violate the church's religious freedom.

St. John's United Church of Christ in Bensenville submitted a letter to the city Friday informing officials of the decision to reject an offer of $630,000 made last month for the 157-year-old St. Johannes Cemetery.

"As a Christian congregation, we find this proposal entirely unacceptable and even blasphemous," the letter said.

Rosemarie Andolino, executive director of the O'Hare Modernization Program, said the city is looking at its options, including possible condemnation of the property. The city has said it would pay to move about 1,200 graves.

"We understand this is sensitive to the families," Andolino said. "We want to be able to work with them."

Both sides await decisions in two lawsuits now in federal courts. The cases claim the cemetery should be protected by the First Amendment guarantee of religious freedom. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit is scheduled to hear oral arguments in one of the cases on May 5.

"The members of St. John's Church are highly determined to fulfill their covenant with those who have gone before to protect their resting places," said John Mauck, an attorney representing the church, in a statement.

The Federal Aviation Administration has said O'Hare expansion project will reduce delays by 68 percent by its scheduled completion in 2013.


Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press

[jpIllInoIs]

^^ Lukecuj, You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. Imagine any other municipality trying to strangle the golden goose like mayor johnson is doing with o'hare. Like the mayor of Vegas wanting to cap gambling, or the mayor of LA/Hollywood putting limits on movie making. Or the mayor of Miami trying to blot out the sunshine. What a fool johnson is,, if UAL moves while he is still in office he will be coming to the voters to raise property taxes on the residents and lure new businesses to the village with corporate give aways and handouts. One trip thru the industrial park now will reveal many 'for lease' & 'for sale' signs.

[Chicago Shawn]

^Folks, UAL is in Elk Grove TOWNSHIP, Not Elk Grove VILLAGE. Its in a unincorperated area of Cook County, and thus does not give any property taxes to that shitty little insignificant sprawl suburb. UAL shutting down opperations though would still hurt the local school district, and likley produce a drop in sales tax revenues from local business. IMO this is a good thing, because the village will still have to deal with the fallout. Elk Grove Village needs to be punished for holding up the Expansion for so long.

[Chicago Shawn]

^Its not a big deal. The new Western terminal is essential to making this expansion plan work. The 45 minute taxi time is for the planes on the far north runway to get to the existing terminals. The western terminal and gates will be much closer. Of course, if Elk Grove Village and Bensinville weren't being such annoying little bitches about western land purchases, we could have the new terminal, taxiways, and second new runway already under construction.

[spyguy]

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/n...=news&id=20660

O'Hare bonds vulnerable to downgrade: Merrill Lynch analyst

O’Hare International Airport bonds totaling about $3.5 billion are vulnerable to a credit rating downgrade because it's at risk from service cuts by its two major airlines and escalating costs of runway reconstruction, Merrill Lynch & Co. said in a research report.

In December, the City of Chicago sold $1.5 billion in bonds to begin funding its $7.5 billion runway reconfiguration at O’Hare. The current cost per enplaned passenger is competitive at $9, but is expected to rise to more than $16 by 2014 as debt mounts for the O’Hare expansion project, Merrill bond analyst Philip Villaluz wrote in a note published Tuesday.

“O’Hare is susceptible to cutbacks by its two major hubbing carriers, United (Airlines) and American (Airlines),” the analyst wrote.

Legal issues continue to overshadow United’s leases and the number of gates it intends to hold onto remains uncertain, the analyst wrote. United accounts for 38% of O’Hare emplanements, while American accounts for 28%, the analyst wrote.

Chicago’s $3.5 billion in so-called “third-lien” airport debt is insured and thus carries an AAA rating. The airport also carries $1.2 million in senior debt and $870 million in bonds backed by passenger facility charges.

Moody’s Investors Service gives the bonds an underlying rating of A2, while Standard & Poor’s rates them at A-. Both ratings are near the middle of the investment–grade pack.

The analyst noted a continued rebound in airport traffic and “residual” agreements that require airlines to jointly pick up charges.

A call to the O’Hare Modernization Project office was not immediately returned.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn

^Its not a big deal. The new Western terminal is essential to making this expansion plan work. The 45 minute taxi time is for the planes on the far north runway to get to the existing terminals. The western terminal and gates will be much closer. Of course, if Elk Grove Village and Bensinville weren't being such annoying little bitches about western land purchases, we could have the new terminal, taxiways, and second new runway already under construction.

When the project becomes a boondoggle, and I think it will*, those 2 shitty little excuses for suburbs will be largely to blame.

* 1) delayed schedule -> escalating costs, 2) lack of perimeter taxiways, 3) freeloading, perpetually-near-bankrupt airlines.

[Rail Claimore]

If worse becomes worst, they can lengthen existing runways 9L, 4L, from around 7000 ft to over 10,000 ft if capacity for big jets is an issue. 14R is already big enough to accomodate the biggest planes in existence at 13,000X200 ft. I think the current 9L-27R runway that's under delay will get built, but what comes after that is iffy.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

If worse becomes worst, they can lengthen existing runways 9L, 4L, from around 7000 ft to over 10,000 ft if capacity for big jets is an issue. 14R is already big enough to accomodate the biggest planes in existence at 13,000X200 ft. I think the current 9L-27R runway that's under delay will get built, but what comes after that is iffy.

The whole plan will depend on the west terminal and perimeter taxiways (see past experience in places like DFW and ATL), and right now those are far enough off that its hard to say with certainty they will get built.

A couple lengthened runways and one new runway thats a few miles from the terminal alone will do very little to improve operations at O'hare without the other stuff, especially at the price it will cost.

If they don't get cracking (and cracking bensenville/elk grove skulls if necessary), this will be a boondoggle.

[BVictor1]

I dare bensonvile to reject the plan.

[WonderlandPark]

Whoa, this reads worse than the Big Dig.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Lukecuj

Bensenville torn over park offer By Justin Kmitch
Daily Herald Staff Writer
Posted Thursday, June 22, 2006

Refusing to negotiate could cost them more than $1.32 million for a 6 1/2 acre park. Negotiating with Chicago, for a higher price, however, could make them outcasts, even traders to some.

Caught between the two extremes, a majority of Bensenville Park District officials Wednesday night agreed to call an emergency meeting with the Bensenville Intergovernmental Group to discuss the $1.32 million offer they received from Chicago to purchase Schuster Park.

Last year, all of the village’s taxing bodies agreed to bring all such proposals before the intergovernmental body and to refuse all negotiations with Chicago.
“We’ve been offered a lot of money and we want to honor our agreement that we have with BIG. We don’t want to be viewed as the red-headed stepchild, or the only public body that wants to get into a discussion with the city of Chicago,” said Commissioner Henry Wesseler after Wednesday’s 4 to 1 vote.

“However, because there is so much money on the table, the bottom line is we feel it’s not just a decision for the park district but it’s a decision for all of the taxing bodies. We’re certainly in a position where we certainly are in a position where we would want to (talk with Chicago) but we’d like to talk with the rest of the taxing bodies and get everything out on the open floor.”

Earlier this month, Chicago’s O’Hare Modernization Program made the offer to the park district and a similar offer of $1.085 million for nearby 3-acre Bretman Park Thursday. Both are in areas Chicago wants to acquire to make room for airport expansion. The district and the village have less than two weeks to respond to the offers. If they’re rejected or no response is received, Chicago may initiate condemnation.

Because Schuster Park was created from a Federal Land and Water Conservation Funds grant, the park must be replaced with a resource of equal or higher value under a program administered by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.

Attorney Joseph Karaganis, who represents the village of Bensenville and the Suburban O’Hare Commission, suggested the village and park district write a joint letter to Chicago stating their intent to discuss the offers with the group. That, he said, would keep both taxing bodies in compliance with last year’s agreement to filter all O’Hare discussions through the group.

Several other opinions were also mixed into the final decision to hold an emergency meeting. Commissioner Rich Johnson initially motioned that the park district outright refuse to negotiate with Chicago but no commissioners seconded the motion.

Commissioner Tom Tolin, the only commissioner to eventually vote against discussing the offer with the Bensenville Intergovernmental Group, said he believes the non-binding group has the district’s hands tied.

“We are an independent body and we should have the best interest of our taxpayers at heart. And by not being allowed to find out where we can go with this negotiation without entering into a negotiation, I think is a disservice to the people who elected us,” Tolin said following the meeting. “I know we all ran on (platforms of) no expansion, but the point is they’re going to take the land either way, whether we negotiate or not. Without even making the attempt, we’re giving up a one-time shot because we won’t get this opportunity again.”

Prior to entering the hour-long closed-door session that resulted in Wednesday’s motion, Karaganis and two constituents reminded the commissioners of their intergovernmental pact and urged them to refuse all negotiations. One parks resident urged them to consider all options before them.

Since the project is already delayed, I hope they decide not to talk so they get nothing for the land in their miserable little shithole of a town.

Bulldoze Bensenville.

Such a slogan would ensure victory for any 2007 Chicago mayoral candidate.

[TALLTOWER]

Yay I can't wait

[nomarandlee]

Not sure if this is the place to pose this question (maybe Chicago transportation thread would be better), but I was looking at the international destinations served by O'Hare and I was noticing some glaring inter. locales that aren't yet served by O'Hare. Many of these cities are routes (some recently) by the likes of Dallas and Atlanta (one would expect LA, NYC, and Miami to serve certain destinations that other U.S. cities wouldn't). Which of these cities would you like to see direct service to, that you think will be served sometime in the near future, and the most important for Chicago to have direct service to? (please add any that I may have forgotten).......


- Moscow (huge growing economy and Chicago's sizable Russian population miffed at why there are not direct links already).
- Bangkok (important city that has no direct air links in-between LA and NYC)
- Rio (surprised it doesn't offer at least seasonal service)
- Santiago, Chile (maybe South America's most healthy booming city)
- J'Burg (the economic heart and air link to much of Sub-Africa). The few times I went there were dozens and dozens of Chicago black Americans who were going on something akin to "heritage tours")
- Cairo (huge city that is the heart in many ways of the Arab world)
- Dubai (while not that big with Americans it does itself offer many airlinks)
- Athens (Chicago has a sizable Greek population and would be at least a good seasonal location)
- Prague or Budapest (while these cities aren't huge markets they are growing and becoming every increasingly attractive tourist destinations)

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Not sure if this is the place to pose this question (maybe Chicago transportation thread would be better), but I was looking at the international destinations served by O'Hare and I was noticing some glaring inter. locales that aren't yet served by O'Hare. Many of these cities are routes (some recently) by the likes of Dallas and Atlanta (one would expect LA, NYC, and Miami to serve certain destinations that other U.S. cities wouldn't). Which of these cities would you like to see direct service to, that you think will be served sometime in the near future, and the most important for Chicago to have direct service to? (please add any that I may have forgotten).......


- Moscow (huge growing economy and Chicago's sizable Russian population miffed at why there are not direct links already).
- Bangkok (important city that has no direct air links in-between LA and NYC)
- Rio (surprised it doesn't offer at least seasonal service)
- Santiago, Chile (maybe South America's most healthy booming city)
- J'Burg (the economic heart and air link to much of Sub-Africa). The few times I went there were dozens and dozens of Chicago black Americans who were going on something akin to "heritage tours")
- Cairo (huge city that is the heart in many ways of the Arab world)
- Dubai (while not that big with Americans it does itself offer many airlinks)
- Athens (Chicago has a sizable Greek population and would be at least a good seasonal location)
- Prague or Budapest (while these cities aren't huge markets they are growing and becoming every increasingly attractive tourist destinations)

Delta is the only US carrier to serve Moscow (and maybe the whole of Russia), thus you'll have flights out of its international hubs at JFK and ATL. Aeroflot and Delta both being members of Skyteam might have something to do with that. No doubt if UAL were to pick up flights to Russia, you'd see daily departures from ORD and IAD, perhaps even JFK.

As for the ones in Latin America, that's always been UAL's weakest major international region. UAL's strong suit has always been the transpacific market (along with NWA). Are you sure UAL doesn't have a flight to BKK from NRT?