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  #1261  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2023, 6:20 PM
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Wouldn't surprise me. A $30 million station for 4 buses an hour.
I know Montreal Rd is a major thoroughfare but they chose this for a station instead of Jasmine Crescent which has two 10-storey apartment buildings, multiple smaller mid-rise apartment buildings plus town and rowhomes. Many of them carless households.
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  #1262  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2023, 10:44 PM
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East and west rail extensions behind schedule, light rail subcommittee hears
"If it takes longer, it takes longer. We really should be focusing on making sure the system is as stable as possible."

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 29, 2023 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 4 minute read


The east extension of Ottawa’s Stage 2 rail transit system is about seven weeks behind schedule, while the west extension is up to 17 months behind.

The forecast for completing the east extension is currently in the first quarter of 2025, compared to the agreed completion date of Nov. 26, 2024, according to a quarterly update for the city’s light rail sub-committee.

On the west extension, from Tunney’s Pasture Station to Moodie and Algonquin stations, the city expects a delay of up to 17 months. The contractual completion date is May 25, 2025.

“We’re still looking for opportunities to recover some time, but obviously some of it is accumulated and we won’t be able to recover it,” Michael Morgan, the director of the city’s rail construction program, told the sub-committee.

An inquiry into the delay-plagued Confederation Line, released last November, said it was rushed into service in 2019 and raised questions about the financial and political pressures on that project.

The project agreement with East/West Connectors to design, build and finance the east-west extensions requires a 98.5-per-cent performance level out of the train system before handover, but Morgan said it was important to be cautious.

“We want to make sure there are no questions, no hesitation,” he said. “If it takes longer, it takes longer. We really should be focusing on making sure the system is as stable as possible.”

At this stage of the project, safety management is key, he said. Project managers have taken into consideration safety measures that came up during the public inquiry.

“We can’t afford to have a safety incident because that will absolutely push out the schedule if we have any sort of safety incident during construction,” Morgan said.

Among the details in the update:
• Significant changes are being made to the road configuration at Jeanne D’Arc Station, where there are four lanes of traffic with a centre median. This is a dangerous spot for pedestrians and cyclists, so the entire road is being rebuilt. This will take some time, but the results will be “fantastic,” Morgan told the subcommittee.
• Of the 25 kilometres of track that needs to be laid in the east end, 23.5 kilometres has been laid so far.
• Testing in the east extension is scheduled to begin this fall and will continue next year. Following the trial running, there will be a “dress rehearsal” in which several hundred people test out the stations and the trains. Customer service teams will also familiarize themselves with the stations.
• Delays on the cut-and-cover tunnel along the Kichi Zībī Mīkan (formerly called the Sir John A Macdonald Parkway) and Byron Linear Park are pushing the overall project completion date to late 2026.
• Almost half of the roof of the 2.9-kilometre west-end tunnel has been completed. One of the last sections to be built is a 90-metre section at Cleary Avenue.
• The three-platform Lincoln Fields station is about 80 per cent complete and in “good shape,” Morgan said.
• A reopening date for the Pinecrest interchange remains up in the air, although signs in the area say it will be reopened in fall 2023. Partial and full openings are under consideration. That part of the project has been affected recent storms, Morgan said. It’s possible it will be reopened later this year, but it may also be pushed into next year.
• The Trillium Line handover from builders to the city is expected by the end of this year, but it has also experienced some delays, including stations still awaiting glass ordered from overseas and two stations awaiting hydro connections.

Members of the committee had questions about specifics of the project.

Bay Ward Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said residents in her ward were hoping to get access to a pedestrian bridge installed over the Queensway this summer before rail was in operation.

The bridge will use elevators and it’s still a long way before they are connected and approved, Morgan responded. The situation can likely be revisited in another two years, he said.

There were also question about opening bike paths ahead of stations. Cyclists can see that the paths are paved, but they’re still blocked off, said Beacon Hill-Cyrville Coun. Tim Tierney, chair of the sub-committee.

Some of the bike paths can’t be opened the public because they are used for construction access, Morgan said, but he added it could be possible to look at those paths on a case-by-case basis to see if there was an opportunity to open some of them earlier as work wrapped up.

Capital Ward Coun. Sean Menard had questions about the opening of a pedestrian bridge over the Rideau River to connect Carleton University to a National Capital Commission pathway.

The bridge is nearing completion, but an opening date has not been set. More paving and drainage work must be done, as well as electrical work, Morgan said. Without any hiccups, it could be open by the end of September.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ommittee-hears
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  #1263  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2023, 2:20 PM
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Seven weeks is really not bad.

Amazing how the City's stance changed from Stage 1, when they were setting fire to RTG's ass to get things done, and Stage 2 where we understand that it will take the time it will take.

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  #1264  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 12:47 PM
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Seven weeks is really not bad.
Considering the impact of the pandemic during the peak construction activities in the east end (2020-2021) it's pretty remarkable. 7 weeks delay on a 5 year project is effectively nothing.
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  #1265  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Considering the impact of the pandemic during the peak construction activities in the east end (2020-2021) it's pretty remarkable. 7 weeks delay on a 5 year project is effectively nothing.
For sure. Postmedia's headline was quite an overstatement (see below). Even the west's 17 months on 6 years isn't terrible. A year and a half on the two year Line 2 project though...

"RUNNING LATE: Stage 2 LRT east, west extensions well behind schedule, subcommittee told"
https://ottawasun.com/news/local-new...d-84b0ba58edd3
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  #1266  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 1:23 PM
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I commute in from Orleans, taking the 174 past the new line and stations daily. It has been remarkable to watch the progress made on the eastern line over the last few months. The crews are out there daily, sometimes weekends and evenings, chugging along at full speed on multiple parts of the line. It's quite the operation to witness! The stations are all nearly complete minus a few finishing touches, and nearly all the track and catenary lines are in except for a small stretch near the mall. It will be surreal to start seeing trains testing on the line before the end of the year. If all goes well with testing, I don't see why some of the time delay might be able to be made up over the next year.
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  #1267  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 4:23 PM
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I commute in from Orleans, taking the 174 past the new line and stations daily. It has been remarkable to watch the progress made on the eastern line over the last few months. The crews are out there daily, sometimes weekends and evenings, chugging along at full speed on multiple parts of the line. It's quite the operation to witness! The stations are all nearly complete minus a few finishing touches, and nearly all the track and catenary lines are in except for a small stretch near the mall. It will be surreal to start seeing trains testing on the line before the end of the year. If all goes well with testing, I don't see why some of the time delay might be able to be made up over the next year.
Honestly, it almost seems more advanced than what Stage 1 looked in May 2018 when it was supposed to open initially.
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  #1268  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 1:12 AM
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There is no mention of Ottawa in this video (though he does mention the REM in Montreal), but I couldn’t help but think of stage 2 east when watching it.

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  #1269  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 2:27 AM
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There is no mention of Ottawa in this video (though he does mention the REM in Montreal), but I couldn’t help but think of stage 2 east when watching it.

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You beat me to it. I would expect that expressway side stations are not much better, and that amounts to even more Ottawa stations. Neither are that conducive to TOD. The best stations are those that are better integrated into the urban fabric of the city. This is pretty obvious. None of the stations east of UOttawa are well situated. Hurdman is particularly awful being in the middle of a field with very little within walking distance beyond a few luxury condos.
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  #1270  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 3:07 AM
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You beat me to it. I would expect that expressway side stations are not much better, and that amounts to even more Ottawa stations.
Depending on the location, side stations can be a tiny bit better, but not much, as at least on the one side you don’t need to cross the highway.

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Neither are that conducive to TOD.
It depends on the type of development. I’m nice again, with side stations you can get TOD on the side the station is on. With a pedestrian overpass to the station ( rather than a vehicle overpass), the building could be integrated with the overpass, which can help, but it isn’t optimal.

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The best stations are those that are better integrated into the urban fabric of the city. This is pretty obvious. None of the stations east of UOttawa are well situated. Hurdman is particularly awful being in the middle of a field with very little within walking distance beyond a few luxury condos.
Agreed. The better option would’ve been to run the track along Rideau and Montreal Road, but that was too expensive.

In the west, after the split at Lincoln Fields, the track should’ve run along Richmond and/or Carling to Bayshore. Beyond Bayshore, it should’ve crossed the Queensway and run along the abandon and unused CPR right of way to near where the rail overpasses is on Moody Dr., to have a station in Bells Corners. from there, there are several options to get to Kanata, but that’s all water under the bridge
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  #1271  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Depending on the location, side stations can be a tiny bit better, but not much, as at least on the one side you don’t need to cross the highway.



It depends on the type of development. I’m nice again, with side stations you can get TOD on the side the station is on. With a pedestrian overpass to the station ( rather than a vehicle overpass), the building could be integrated with the overpass, which can help, but it isn’t optimal.



Agreed. The better option would’ve been to run the track along Rideau and Montreal Road, but that was too expensive.

In the west, after the split at Lincoln Fields, the track should’ve run along Richmond and/or Carling to Bayshore. Beyond Bayshore, it should’ve crossed the Queensway and run along the abandon and unused CPR right of way to near where the rail overpasses is on Moody Dr., to have a station in Bells Corners. from there, there are several options to get to Kanata, but that’s all water under the bridge
Yep!

I dreamed of an Innes Road route, which has quickly become the commercial centre of Orleans, on an elevated guideway. Innes Road in Blackburn Hamlet actually was expropriated for a boulevard that was never built. The Nimbys would have been out in full force to preserve an empty road allowance.

Barrhaven has a good route right through the centre of the community, but will the Transitway ever be converted? Stage 3 seems to be becoming less likely as we continue to struggle with Phase 1.

The silver lining may be to stress more urban corridors, particularly the Baseline route, which I still claim is the missing link across the city.
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  #1272  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 1:48 PM
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When I think of cost cutting on this project my mind always goes to the routing moreso than the train choice or finishes on stations.
The inner east of the city got nothing out of this project. Orleans gets their commuter rail and everything in-between is left with our unreliable bus service. The city couldn't even manage to put dedicate bus lanes on Montreal road, and the bike lanes they did put in honestly kind of suck. They drop to street level with awkward ramps at every intersection and don't even continue between north River and the Parkway. Meanwhile in the west we find the money to make tunnels to save a 10 foot wide park.
The double standards are quite atrocious.
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  #1273  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RogueNacho View Post
I commute in from Orleans, taking the 174 past the new line and stations daily. It has been remarkable to watch the progress made on the eastern line over the last few months. The crews are out there daily, sometimes weekends and evenings, chugging along at full speed on multiple parts of the line. It's quite the operation to witness! The stations are all nearly complete minus a few finishing touches, and nearly all the track and catenary lines are in except for a small stretch near the mall. It will be surreal to start seeing trains testing on the line before the end of the year. If all goes well with testing, I don't see why some of the time delay might be able to be made up over the next year.
Montreal station experienced a pretty substantial setback and I'm quite certain it's the main reason if not the sole reason for the 7 week setback in the east.
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  #1274  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 4:09 PM
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When I think of cost cutting on this project my mind always goes to the routing moreso than the train choice or finishes on stations.
The inner east of the city got nothing out of this project. Orleans gets their commuter rail and everything in-between is left with our unreliable bus service. The city couldn't even manage to put dedicate bus lanes on Montreal road, and the bike lanes they did put in honestly kind of suck. They drop to street level with awkward ramps at every intersection and don't even continue between north River and the Parkway. Meanwhile in the west we find the money to make tunnels to save a 10 foot wide park.
The double standards are quite atrocious.
Agree with some of this but the tunnel to save the park was about a number of very vocal people who were very upset with a specific fix. In the east it's a whole community that could have gotten faster and better service but nobody is specifically up in arms about something built next to their house. Anyway what route would improve things without completely blowing up the cost structure?
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  #1275  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2023, 8:41 AM
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The west had a missing link between Dominion and Lincoln Fields. The options were limited. Had the Byron alignment been surface, we'd still have needed tunnels and/or overpasses for pedestrians, Woodroffe, reaching Lincoln Fields, so might as well put in underground. At least it's not an expensive bored tunnel, and stations are all open air. In no way did they get some sort of Cadillac system, but they did get something that's better integrated with the urban fabric, which is exactly what we're arguing should have been done in the east.

In the east, I totally agree Rideau-Montreal would have been a far better route that served some of the densest areas of the city on the way to Orleans, but the City had a cheap alternative in the Transitway.

I am hoping that if/when the City decides to build something in south Orleans, they opt for Innes, where there's far more development potential. The Cumberland Transitway corridor is already largely built-up with low density housing.
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  #1276  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2023, 5:06 PM
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The west had a missing link between Dominion and Lincoln Fields. The options were limited. Had the Byron alignment been surface, we'd still have needed tunnels and/or overpasses for pedestrians, Woodroffe, reaching Lincoln Fields, so might as well put in underground. At least it's not an expensive bored tunnel, and stations are all open air. In no way did they get some sort of Cadillac system, but they did get something that's better integrated with the urban fabric, which is exactly what we're arguing should have been done in the east.
For the Byron corridor, everyone seems to frame it as either an underground or surface binary decision, when elevated would have made the most sense from a technical / cost - and even placemaking perspective. The only downfall of elevated is the NIMBY/political issue. It's very disappointing it was never studied and put forward as an option. I think it does highlight the fact we spend hundreds of millions extra to pre-emptively placate rich detached homeowners in the West.
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  #1277  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2023, 11:43 PM
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For the Byron corridor, everyone seems to frame it as either an underground or surface binary decision, when elevated would have made the most sense from a technical / cost - and even placemaking perspective. The only downfall of elevated is the NIMBY/political issue. It's very disappointing it was never studied and put forward as an option. I think it does highlight the fact we spend hundreds of millions extra to pre-emptively placate rich detached homeowners in the West.
I'm not so sure elevated would have been much cheaper than cut-and-cover in this case. This isn't the excess of the Toronto-Vaughn extension, where they opted for a deep bored tunnel with cathedral like stations in empty fields and industrial areas.

Bonus of underground is that the tracks and centenaries will be mostly protected from increment weather. over that few kilometers. This has been a recurring issue with Stage 1.

If anything, I hope to see more of the line covered/decked-over in the coming years.
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  #1278  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2023, 5:33 PM
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Bonus of underground is that the tracks and centenaries will be mostly protected from increment weather. over that few kilometers. This has been a recurring issue with Stage 1.
If we start protecting the tracks and wires from the weather, soon the passengers will demand the same.
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  #1279  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2023, 8:52 PM
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If we start protecting the tracks and wires from the weather, soon the passengers will demand the same.
It's really not that bad. At least, with double trains when you can pick the side of the platform to wait, and when trains are running 5 minutes or less.

Here's a fairly typical station in Calgary. Vertical circulation is well enclosed, but the platform has nothing.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowfoot_station
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  #1280  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2023, 3:04 PM
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Yes, our transit architecture in this country sucks.
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