Has any city in N. America outside of New York had 4 SUPERTALLS u/c at the same time?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Would be insanely impressive when it was still up, did anybody here see it in person? I'm guessing it was Vermont marble since that's usually the case in the US.

yeah, i saw it all the time as a kid (it was re-clad when i was in high school).

it wasn't radically different, just a bit "shinier" because of the marble's sheen.

the replacement granite is flatter by comparison.


and the marble wasn't from vermont, it was cararra marble imported from italy.

Originally Posted by The North One

It's a shame mid-century architects ran with the super thin marble panels idea. Had the marble cladding just been a normal thickness it would have been totally fine.

the thinness was a cost-saving move for these giant E.D. Stone towers in chicago and toronto.

it turned out to be a fatal flaw.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the marble wasn't from vermont, it was cararra marble imported from italy.

Damn, importing Italian marble is not cheap. To go all out on carrara and then try to save costs on the thinness... That was quite a blunder.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Damn, importing Italian marble is not cheap. To go all out on carrara and then try to save costs on the thinness... That was quite a blunder.

and they did it twice.

first in chicago, and then repeating the mistake in toronto.

on what were two of the very tallest buildings on the face of the planet at the time.


whoops!

[kool maudit]

I have never looked at FCP's glass up close. It's like a Guilloché dial -- very cool effect.



I remember being in town during the re-clad and seeing it progress. The old marble was quite grey by then.

[Maldive]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I have never looked at FCP's glass up close. It's like a Guilloché dial -- very cool effect.



I remember being in town during the re-clad and seeing it progress. The old marble was quite grey by then.

^ Interesting ... the pic I posted is actually a rendering, but there’s a close-up photo of the frit on FCP’s new glass which is similar to the watch but even more crystalline... alas Google can’t find it.

The one change I particularly love is the bronze/black glass in the corners instead of the original white… frames the white glass nicely.


UT

Here’s how bad the Carrara marble looked, before (below) and after (above).


UT

[Klippenstein]

I wonder if the marble was able to be salvaged or if it was too thin/compromised for any other uses.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

facadectomies have been done in chicago as well, but they aren't usually well-received by the local preservation community, who see them as "half-assed preservation".

I'm aware. I appreciate the few we have. Whether it's "half-assed" or not, it's better than the glass boxes or imitation facades we end up getting after demolition.

An example you're well aware of... demolition a building to create an uninspired imitation for the podium, but preserve the name. [Photo by Jack Crawford]





Calling it half-assed preservation just seems like an excuse to be cheap and we end up with disjointed districts with faceless podiums. I don't think we always get it wrong, but a little pushback would go a long way. From my perspective it creates more cohesiveness by maintaining more fine grain and pushes developers to fill in vacant/surface parking lots first if the demand isn't there to invest money in preservation. We've gotten way too blasé about demolition in Chicago. At least Fulton Market is a step in the right direction.

/End rant. Sorry for the tangent.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

I wonder if the marble was able to be salvaged or if it was too thin/compromised for any other uses.

for Aon center, it sounds like the vast majority of it was crushed up into fancy landscaping gravel.

according to wikipedia:

Two-thirds of the discarded marble was crushed and used as landscaping decoration at Amoco's refinery in Whiting, Indiana, one-sixth was donated to Governors State University, in University Park, and one-sixth donated to Regalo, a division of Lashcon Inc. Under a grant from the Illinois Department of Rehabilitative Services, Regalo's 25 handicapped workers carved the discarded marble into a variety of specialty items such as corporate gifts and mementos including desk clocks and pen holders.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aon_Center_(Chicago)



i'd like to find a way to get my hands on one of those Regalo mementos. i wonder if they ever come up on ebay? or if the people who currently own those items are even aware that they have discarded carrara marble from Big Stan?


i don't know what was done with the discarded marble from FCP's re-clad.




all in all, it was a colossal waste, and one of the biggest examples of a mis-engineered building facade system of all time.

[Maldive]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

I wonder if the marble was able to be salvaged or if it was too thin/compromised for any other uses.

I'm aware. I appreciate the few we have. Whether it's "half-assed" or not, it's better than the glass boxes or imitation facades we end up getting after demolition.

An example you're well aware of... demolition a building to create an uninspired imitation for the podium, but preserve the name. [Photo by Jack Crawford]

Calling it half-assed preservation just seems like an excuse to be cheap and we end up with disjointed districts with faceless podiums. I don't think we always get it wrong, but a little pushback would go a long way. From my perspective it creates more cohesiveness by maintaining more fine grain and pushes developers to fill in vacant/surface parking lots first if the demand isn't there to invest money in preservation. We've gotten way too blasé about demolition in Chicago. At least Fulton Market is a step in the right direction.

/End rant. Sorry for the tangent.

I agree... to continue the tangent one more time lol.

There are lots of so-called "half-assed" facades preserved in Toronto, many no more interesting than the W.J. Cassidy Tire example you posted... and you know what?

In Toronto almost every one of them (cleaned, restored and sometimes completely re-assembled) ... create a far more inviting at-grade pedestrian experience than anything new (at least 8 out of 10 times ;-).

Old (usually with new retail) at street level, with new above, is a great recipe from my pov. And... the old sometimes even informs the architecture expression of the new, which is even better when done right.

In a perfect world heritage buildings of note should be 100% retained and restored if possible (there's a few in Toronto, along with some massacres).

Here’s one called Cielo Condos where the land-owner (United Church of Canada) wanted new office space, a new sanctuary hall (and $$ from condos on top) involving a large facade retention (circa 1886) that is well underway.

I think the results with new retail at street level and the pedestrian experience, will be worth the effort.


UT

UT

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

John Maryon Tower was never a proposal. It's a drawing the architect, John Maryon, created for fun and publicity. There's probably some mile high tower being drawn in a Toronto office at any given time.

It most certainly was a proposal. How serious a proposal it was is questionable; to wit, not very serious, I suspect.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Nite

The taller tower has not gone into sales yet, but the shorter one has sold faster than I was expecting with demolition permits already given, so the taller one should be release for sales soon (Before 2023)

if these are a go it will be great to see the first actual architecture of any note go up in toronto.

[Maldive]

^ give me a break... homerism is expected from your handle but c'mon

-Ontario Place pods and islands in the lake with a geodesic dome hosting the world's first IMAX theatre
-Viljo Revell's City Hall right next to the Romanesque Old City Hall with its towering clock tower
- Mies' 3 towers (eventually 5) and pavilion of the Toronto Dominion Centre
- the real gold-infused serrated curtain-wall of Royal Bank Plaza's 2 towers
-Calatrava's best galleria + atrium (sorry nyc)
- Will Alsop's wacky OCAD (Sharpe Centre) suspended in the air from pick up sticks.
- the 1929/31 Bank of Commerce deco tower, as elegant as anything in nyc
-the buildings of Queens Park Circle and U of Toronto
-CN Tower tallest for 4 decades and still the best-designed of the bunch

... ok I took the bait so some homerism back at you... I'll stop now.

[MAC123]

CN Tower is definitely not the best. Canton Tower and Tokyo Skytree are so much better.

[Innsertnamehere]

I used to have a chunk of the marble that came off FCP, they gave away baseball sized chunks of it from the lobby at the time. I’ve unfortunately since misplaced it, but it was very crumbly. You could definitely see why it was replaced.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by Urbannizer

Currently we have four cities in N. America with supertalls under construction.

NY, Toronto, Miami (site prep-should transition very shortly), Austin

Potential to expand to seven with San Francisco, Mexico City and Monterrey. Not betting on Philly, Seattle and Chicago at the moment as their supertall proposals are either stagnant or conceptual.

Miami should have 2 Supertalls Under Construction soon & possibly 4-5 total in this decade :

#1: The Waldorf Astoria Tower is in it's 4th. week of site prep and construction should commence before the end of the year.

#2: The One Biscayne Plaza site has vacated the current building and is set for demolition soon.
https://www.thenextmiami.com/video-o...for-supertall/

#3: One Brickell City Centre (1049 ft.| 80 stories) is approved with Construction to start in 2023.
https://www.thenextmiami.com/one-bri...rly-next-year/

:4: The Citadel Office Tower in Brickell is cleared and waiting for design proposals :
https://www.thenextmiami.com/citadel...upertall-site/

#5: 888 Brickell (1,049 feet) is also planned by the current owners of the property of the site.
https://www.thenextmiami.com/888-bri...ring-released/

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Gresto

It most certainly was a proposal. How serious a proposal it was is questionable; to wit, not very serious, I suspect.

Seriously? Because it appeared in a newspaper makes it a proposal? I mean sure by the dictionary definition. As I said, an architect drew it for publicity. There was no formal zoning application. There wasn't a developer or a property owner.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I used to have a chunk of the marble that came off FCP, they gave away baseball sized chunks of it from the lobby at the time. I’ve unfortunately since misplaced it, but it was very crumbly. You could definitely see why it was replaced.

I went bonkers. I have a small tote filled with bags in the shed. They only gave one bag and one cupcake to each person at the event however, they had a lot left over and building maintenance said take as many as you want when I left for home that night.

The piece I have on a book shelf in the office is 1 1/4 inches thick and, presumably, it lost some thickness with 40 years of weathering. Maybe that's thin for a stone facade panel. It's much thinker than I thought it would be when I got it.

[C.]

Bumping this with the 100+ story proposal in Toronto. What's happening in Toronto right now really feels like 1930s New York.

Although trivial, it would have been fun to see how Toronto would rank in the now defunct Emporis Skyline Rating. The folks at Emporis came up with a numerical rating by assigning a point value to each building based on the formula below:

Points per Building
12..19 floors = 1 point
20..29 floors = 5 points
30..39 floors = 25 points
40..49 floors = 50 points
50..59 floors = 100 points
60..69 floors = 200 points
70..79 floors = 300 points
80..89 floors = 400 points
90..99 floors = 500 points
100+ floors = 600 points

[Innsertnamehere]

that would be.. challenging to calculate given the huge number of shorter buildings U/C in Toronto right now.

Assuming The One and One Yonge's height increases get approved, under construction right now is:

100+ storeys: 1
90-99 storeys: 1
80-89 storeys: 2
70-79 storeys: 1
60-69 storeys: 11
50-59 storeys: 19
40-49 storeys: 31

That gives you 7850 points.

For proposed... it would be a lot, lot more.

[MAC123]

Differences in floor height (especially somewhere like NYC where Lux supertall floor heights are massive) mean the number of stories/floors doesn't mean much