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  #461  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
That is an OLD pic of the TMC. Lots of new towers built since then. Even the Prudential Building still there.
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  #462  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
look at how suburban redevelopment differs in dc vs Toronto. here's columbia pike in Arlington.

Columbia pike lacks metro access. the new buildings (I count 5 recently built structures) on the northern section of the road) lining the route are massive midrises instead of highrises.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8541...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8632...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8613...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8566...7i16384!8i8192

2010s midrise next to 1960s midrise

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Se...!4d-77.1468067
I get somewhat similar vibes from the developments in those three posts to new development in affluent inner ring suburban areas of Toronto, like the Kingston Road area of SW Scarborough, Central Etobicoke, Don Mills, or maybe around Bathurst/Avenue Road.

DC's inner suburbs seem to have more office development though, probably because they don't have the same tax issues as Toronto. Toronto has significantly higher taxes on office space than the surrounding municipalities. Those taxes can be absorbed by new developments in downtown Toronto, but it's not really worth it in Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough, so the new office space just ends up going a few miles further out in Markham and Mississauga.
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  #463  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Nite View Post
I disagree strongly that Mississauga is crap especially it's urban parts like Port Credit and Streetville
We're talking about the edge city highrise clusters, not the legacy towns absorbed in the sprawl.
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  #464  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Tysons sucks, just like Mississauga. Both are irredeemable postwar crap.

There's a major functional difference, though. Tysons is the second most important regional corporate center, trailing only downtown DC. Mississauga is more of a residential center.
It sounds like you’re not gonna like anything built post-war.
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  #465  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
It sounds like you’re not gonna like anything built post-war.
He has said that suburbs are pointless unless they are as low density as possible. He opposes the idea of higher densities in suburbs, so his continuous and vehement trashing of Mississauga City Centre and Tyson's Corner is not surprising, although his continuous presence in this thread is.
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  #466  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
It sounds like you’re not gonna like anything built post-war.
From scratch, no, not at least in terms of urbanity.

Anything totally built post-automobile era sucks from an urbanist perspective.
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  #467  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
He has said that suburbs are pointless unless they are as low density as possible.
No, auto-oriented sprawl is pointless unless low density. I support high density suburbia if within an urban framework.

But high density, auto oriented sprawl combines the worst of both worlds.
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  #468  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
95% of Toronto single family homes are owned by Native born Canadians .

Condos are half owned by foreign born buyers

Source?
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  #469  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
No, auto-oriented sprawl is pointless unless low density. I support high density suburbia if within an urban framework.

But high density, auto oriented sprawl combines the worst of both worlds.
So mixed-use high-rise buildings built right up to the sidewalk with street level retail is "auto-oriented" sprawl?

"Auto-oriented" is not a binary quality, nor is it synonymous with "post-war". Like, Calgary is more than 90% post-war, basically one big suburb, yet there is no US metropolitan area that can match its transit ridership other than New York. Is Calgary's auto-dependence really no different from Dallas or Houston? If Mississauga was all just Atlanta style sprawl, would it have less people driving to work (71.6%) than most US central cities including Columbus (79.1%), Kansas City (79.9%), Indianapolis (81.8%)?

Even in the US you have Las Vegas as one of the nation's transit leaders as well. Higher densities and half-hearted TOD measures are enough to give an almost pure post-war city the same transit ridership as Pittsburgh, twice the ridership of Cleveland, 5 times the ridership of Cincinatti.

There is really no such thing as "best of both worlds". Extreme low density sprawl affects the urbanity and parking demand in inner cities as well. With population of less than 100k in 1941, could Calgary's tiny core have developed into what it is today if it was surrounded by extreme low density? If we want to preserve the urbanity of our cities, if we want build upon them, it means stopping the suburbanization of our cities, and that means stopping the suburbanization happening right outside their boundaries as well. No matter how much you want to enforce those boundaries, they are ultimately just superficial.
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  #470  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 12:08 AM
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Doesn’t this just prove that transit usage is a poor guide to urbanity ?
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  #471  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:25 AM
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I don't understand the hate or extreme criticism of Toronto burbs or a place like Tyson.

They are FAR better than a standard burb and getting better every year. I may be an extremist when it comes to incrementalism, but I think that's based in reality.

Good for them and I hope for nothing but a better future for all of em. Compare them to say Arlington Tx, then youll realize how nice they actually are.
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  #472  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:30 AM
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  #473  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I don't understand the hate or extreme criticism of Toronto burbs or a place like Tyson.

They are FAR better than a standard burb and getting better every year. I may be an extremist when it comes to incrementalism, but I think that's based in reality.

Good for them and I hope for nothing but a better future for all of em. Compare them to say Arlington Tx, then youll realize how nice they actually are.
good point. I think however that there are good TOD examples all across Dallas and houston, we just don't seem to have energetic forumers interested in posting views of their suburban clusters.
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  #474  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Doesn’t this just prove that transit usage is a poor guide to urbanity ?
What do you mean? The urbanity of Calgary isn't no different than other 90% post-war urban areas?

I don't understand what urbanity means if it has nothing to do walkability, and transit usage has nothing to do with people's ability to walk to and from transit stops. Would Calgary's downtown be no different if everyone drove and parked downtown instead of taking transit? Washington DC is one of the leaders in transit as well. Does transit really have nothing to do the development of Tyson's Corner and the future redevelopment of the parking lots there?

I don't understand why there's so much efforts to separate urbanity and high density and transit and walkability all from each other. Maybe the links between is just all in my head and not real. It just makes me realize I don't belong in this thread. Sorry for wasting everyone's time with all my stupid posts and ideas, I won't bother you guys with them again.
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  #475  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 6:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
good point. I think however that there are good TOD examples all across Dallas and houston, we just don't seem to have energetic forumers interested in posting views of their suburban clusters.
I spent a few days visiting Dallas in 2018 and opted not to rent a car. The city had some nice areas. Katy Trail was a great community asset. Lower Greenville was pretty nice. The contrast between Bishop Arts District and the surroundings was kinda weird... And Uptown was dealing with a lot of the same issues as a place like Mississauga Centre. I also spent some time in North Arlington and I'll take Mississauga over that any day of the week.
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  #476  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
So mixed-use high-rise buildings built right up to the sidewalk with street level retail is "auto-oriented" sprawl?
Good question. I think it would qualify as auto-oriented sprawl but the person who lives in that high-rise has *some* options within walking distance, and that's a "win" in America if you ask me. It might be just a food option they like to indulge in once a month, but it could be a grocery store, or a target or something that could really reduce their driving. Or...it could be their job, which could be a game-changer for them, even though every other thing must be reached by car.
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  #477  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Done right.
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  #478  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I don't understand the hate or extreme criticism of Toronto burbs or a place like Tyson.

They are FAR better than a standard burb and getting better every year. I may be an extremist when it comes to incrementalism, but I think that's based in reality.

Good for them and I hope for nothing but a better future for all of em. Compare them to say Arlington Tx, then youll realize how nice they actually are.
Yes. This for example is a redevelopment of a former large car dealership in Kendall, long the posterchild for South Florida sprawl. Parking underground, next to a metrorail stop:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6872...7i16384!8i8192

From above. Its only a matter of time before all the old surface lot, big box retail is replaced with more urban uses. They are slowly being replaced one by one, this used to all be stores with giant parking lots:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6866.../data=!3m1!1e3
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  #479  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2021, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
Impressive cluster but would this not be considered part of Houston proper? More of a midtown than a suburban centre. Also are there any rapid transit links between downtown Houston and this hub?
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  #480  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2021, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by vanman View Post
Impressive cluster but would this not be considered part of Houston proper? More of a midtown than a suburban centre. Also are there any rapid transit links between downtown Houston and this hub?
Yeah, the first line built as part of Houston's LRT network passes through there.
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