Winnipeg Construction X

[rivercity]

For me its moving vehicles off high streets in the city so they can actually be enjoyed. We can hum and haw about being a car centric city but even if kenaston isnt widened for a billion bucks that money isnt going to be allocated to active transit or transit transit, who are we kidding. I guess i am just cynical about this city in general these days.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The 3kms long expansion of Kenaston alone will cost $3/4 - 1 billion.

you guys really measure your city on how many freeways it has? Who cares. Freeways just exacerbate sprawl. total waste of money that we don't have. We have much greater needs than spending generational money on shaving a few minutes off your drive across town.

I really doubt that you are talking about expanding Kenaston from the Perimeter to Pembina. Have you seen the work they are doing on the Yellowhead? There is no way in hell, the cost is even going to be remotely close, unless it costs 1/2 the price of completing infrastructure in Alberta.

BTW, I noticed the Yellowhead project is going to run 23 km. For $1 billion.

You honestly think 3km of road is going to cost near as much?


Nobody is measuring a city with the amount of freeways it has. We're stating the obvious. Winnipeg's infrastructure is the worst in Canada for any city over 250,000 people. No LRT. No expressways. crumbling streets that are slightly above 3rd World standards.

Infrastructure is important in any city. I am not sure why you are so against it. Would you prefer if Winnipeg just saved a ton of money, and made all of our future roads gravel?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I really doubt that you are talking about expanding Kenaston from the Perimeter to Pembina. Have you seen the work they are doing on the Yellowhead? There is no way in hell, the cost is even going to be remotely close, unless it costs 1/2 the price of completing infrastructure in Alberta.

BTW, I noticed the Yellowhead project is going to run 23 km. For $1 billion.

You honestly think 3km of road is going to cost near as much?


Nobody is measuring a city with the amount of freeways it has. That is in your imagination. We're stating the obvious. Winnipeg's infrastructure is the worst in Canada for any city over 250,000 people. No LRT. No expressways. crumbling streets that are slightly above 3rd World standards.

Infrastructure is important in any city. I am not sure why you are so against it. Would you prefer if Winnipeg just saved a ton of money, and made all of our future roads gravel?...or better yet why have roads at all. We can bring back the horse and buggy.

You have to factor in the property values along the route that the city has to acquired by buying out. Also assuming the St James bridge replacement cost is factored into that cost estimate.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Infrastructure is important in any city. I am not sure why you are so against it. Would you prefer if Winnipeg just saved a ton of money, and made all of our future roads gravel?...or better yet why have roads at all. We can bring back the horse and buggy.

I think the underlying cause of all of this is sprawl. We can't afford to maintain our crumbling infrastructure (roads, bridges) because we have far too much of it for our population base. If we could considerably grow the city's population and tax base while keeping our existing footprint, we might have a hope of reasonable infrastructure. I don't see any other alternative.

[bomberjet]

I hate to be that guy, again. But it's not actually 25km of work. It's widening in some areas and 2 interchanges. Then interchange modifications and crossing closures at certain locations along the 25km stretch. in the end it will be 25km of freeway.

But yes for some reason Winnipeg has a real problem estimating this type of work. Or overdoing the work. Ther stretch of Kenaston from the river to Taylor needs to be reconstructed to actual freeway standards and that is the largest cost. The area from Taylor to 101 is basically already to freeway standards and it is the interchanges that need construction. Could Winnipeg do it for $1 billion, probably not. But it's not apples to apples.

Besides Winnipeg has no money. We keep going over the same things and have no money to pay for anything. If we were going to spend $1 billion on something, spend it on real LRT.

[rivercity]

A large component of the project is also the new bridge over the Assiniboine and repairs to the scouring of the bridge piers

[BKB]

Blackdog, do you live in Winnipeg?

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Nobody is measuring a city with the amount of freeways it has. That is in your imagination. We're stating the obvious. Winnipeg's infrastructure is the worst in Canada for any city over 250,000 people. No LRT. No expressways. crumbling streets that are slightly above 3rd World standards.

Infrastructure is important in any city. I am not sure why you are so against it. Would you prefer if Winnipeg just saved a ton of money, and made all of our future roads gravel?...or better yet why have roads at all. We can bring back the horse and buggy.

Haha this is great. I live in a town of 20K and I am 3 minutes from a freeway that is as smooth as glass so I can travel where I want at 120 kmh.

I was also told on this forum that by moving here I would be driven broke by electricity prices. Looks like the opposite is true.

[bomberjet]

There was another report recently on the unexpected windfall of electricity sales for Manitoba Hydro. It was of course used to pay for provincial deficit. I like to play devil's advocate today. It's not all bad. Just a mixed bag.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Haha this is great. I live in a town of 20K and I am 3 minutes from a freeway that is as smooth as glass so I can travel where I want at 120 kmh.

I was also told on this forum that by moving here I would be driven broke by electricity prices. Looks like the opposite is true.

You want a medal or something?

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

all Manitoba had to do was built Bipole 3 on the right damn side of Lake Winnipeg, and we could have had two ring roads, a freeway along Kenaston, and 2 LRT lines, and still have extra money to spend.

There could have been an all season road on the east side of Lake Winnipeg too.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I really doubt that you are talking about expanding Kenaston from the Perimeter to Pembina. Have you seen the work they are doing on the Yellowhead? There is no way in hell, the cost is even going to be remotely close, unless it costs 1/2 the price of completing infrastructure in Alberta.

BTW, I noticed the Yellowhead project is going to run 23 km. For $1 billion.

You honestly think 3km of road is going to cost near as much?


Nobody is measuring a city with the amount of freeways it has. That is in your imagination. We're stating the obvious. Winnipeg's infrastructure is the worst in Canada for any city over 250,000 people. No LRT. No expressways. crumbling streets that are slightly above 3rd World standards.

Infrastructure is important in any city. I am not sure why you are so against it. Would you prefer if Winnipeg just saved a ton of money, and made all of our future roads gravel?...or better yet why have roads at all. We can bring back the horse and buggy.

Expanding Kenaston from the st james bridge to Taylor (3kms) was budgeted at half a billion dollars five years ago. That means it is 3/4 of a billion today.....and it will be a billion by the time they actually do it....they wont actually do it, but I'm humouring you.

The Main Street to McPhillips section of the Chief Peguis Trail extension is just over 2.5 kilometres, runs in an empty field and only has one intersecting road. In 2018 that was budgeted at $300 million.....that means half a billion today.

you absolutely are comparing Winnipeg to other cities based on amount of freeways....showing how even much smaller cities have freeways and implying that we are inferior because we don't.

I'm not opposed to infrastructure....i'm opposed to spending billions of dollars so people can drive faster across town....it's a complete waste of money....we have WAAAAAAAY bigger priorities.

even if we did want to spend billions on roads....how about we just fix the ones we have...as you say, they are crumbling.....instead of building really expensive ones that will just add to what we need to fix in the future.

[trueviking]

also. this should be moved to the roads thread so I don't have to read it.

[bomberjet]

The City is terrible at estimating. There was probably $200 million in contingency in that $500 million estimate. That's what they do. Probably a class 5 estimate with contingency on contingency. That's how it was for the $500 million Marion Archiblad interchange thing.

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by trueviking

If we actually had four or five billion dollars to spend on Winnipeg, shaving a few minutes off the drive across town is very low on the list of issues that should be addressed. Of all the issues Winnipeg faces, hard to make an argument to spend generational money on a road.

Imagine how transformative an investment like that would be. Imagine wasting it on a road.

Wasting it on a road? I’m usually onside with most of your urban design points. That being said, cities need roads to move people with their goods and services. Winnipeg is the largest first world city city most can think of that has neither light rail or a proper freeway system. Winnipeg roads are under built and over used. That’s one major reason why they breakdown as much as they do. Get Kenaston and Chief Peguis done sooner rather than later.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by trueviking

also. this should be moved to the roads thread so I don't have to read it.

no kidding

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

You want a medal or something?

No thank you, I have all I need. But thanks for your generous offer.

My point is, all the complaints about the poor transportation infrastructure have merit, and just about every other city is more well thought out. But you can change - not Winnipeg, Winnipeg will not change.

The alternative is to find a place to live that has everything you like in a city, and endeavor to move there. It may take time, maybe years, but your happiness is worth it. We only get one crack at life so you should like where you live.

We are free to live anywhere in this country. Take advantage of that freedom.

[WinCitySparky]

I mean sure you’re right about moving anywhere but it’s really not a bad place to live when it all boils down.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

Wasting it on a roads? I’m usually onside with most of your urban design points. That being said, cities need roads to move people with their goods and services. Winnipeg is the largest first world city city most can think of that has neither light rail or a proper freeway system. Winnipeg roads are under built and over used. That’s one major reason why they breakdown as much as they do. Get Kenaston and Chief Peguis done sooner rather than later.

Bang on! Remember back when they were extending Chief Peguis from Henderson to Lag. and the naysayers here were saying it was unnecessary, do any of them say that now?

It took a heavy volume of traffic and commercial transportation off regional streets that were never intended for the volume they were receiving, from Disraeli to the Perimeter there was no adequate east-west roadway a distance of over 10 KM!

It has been shortsighted not to connect Chief Peguis to either McPhillips or Route 90 something that should have already been completed!

Winnipeg’s roadways are a mish mash of some adequate and mostly inadequate which I really find hard for anyone to argue against!

Sorry Vike but you are truly out to lunch on this!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

I mean sure you’re right about moving anywhere but it’s really not a bad place to live when it all boils down.

Winnipeg has a lot going for it no doubt, it’s affordable has a lot of varied amenities, great arts scene, good restaurants. The downside has always been extremely poor leadership and a lack of vision.