CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[ebitdadada]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

The combination of Cantazzara's threat and this report on Betsy DeVos' pro-charter school PAC donating to Vallas (along with lots of other billionaires) has me back on the fence in this election. On the flip side, Johnson's entire campaign being funded by CTU and SEIU is very troubling.

The question seems to be coming down to [more charter schools, more police, ? taxes] OR [more public education, less police, more taxes]

To me (and I know I may have lost some credibility in my previous late night & failed attempt at humor ), I think another way to look at the choice is:

1. The guy who is liked by some people I really really don't like (but who on the other hand has disavowed to varying levels those same folks & is endorsed Dick Durbin, Arnie Dunkin, Bobby Rush, Willi Wilson, etc.) + has decades of experience running large organizations.

2. Guy who is a member of, has had their campaign generated by, and is fully funded by an organization who's involvement in the mayoral race (not to mention their attempt to fully capture it) is hugely, hugely problematic + has practically 0 management experience.

Even ignoring policy, where I probably align a bit more with Vallas, what gets me is this:

A: I'm a director, have managed smallish teams for 10 years, and have loads of finance experience. But... I don't think for a billion years I'm qualified to run the city of Chicago. Johnson has less management experience than I do and him thinking he's qualified to run Chicago is a giant insult to both the concept of expertise and anyone who lives in Chicago & is expected to gamble on him.

B: Johnson's alignment with the CTU is just disqualifying from any reasonable good governance perspective. Let's say the city's largest vendor was an asphalt company: If that company picked one of their employees to run for mayor then, funded and supported that person, could anybody really say that was ok? The CTU is either Chicago's biggest vendor (I don't know for sure) or one of them.

C: While I personally despise the police union, especially Cantazzzara, morale is very low (and some of it for understandable reasons), turnover is already very high, and a Johnson win is likely to accelerate this (threats being inappropriate or not). We can't pick a mayor based on how we want the world we want to live in, we need to pick based on world we do live in. I'll echo Arnie Dunkin in saying if we actually want reform and not to just burn the house down, Vallas (a guy who is actually respected by the rank and file) is much more likely to achieve it.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by jboy560

A vote for Johnson isn’t necessarily a vote to improve public education if he scraps or dismantled the best performing public schools (e.g. Lane Tech, Payton, etc.).

Those schools are great, for the kids who get in, they may actually hurt the system overall. In my neighborhood, all of the kids should go to Schurz HS. Unfortunately, most of the signs I see are Lane Tech and other selective enrollment schools. The result is that Schurz gets the "leftovers" and continues to under-perform without high-performing kids to serve as role models and demand more programs.

On the flip side, Disney II is the closest CPS grade school to me. My child must win a lottery (40% of seats go to students within 1 mile) to gain admission. If we don't get in, we are looking to either move or pay $10k for private school.

The solution to improving CPS isn't by adding 200 seats to Walter Payton, that just creates 200 more lottery tickets, it doesn't fundamentally change anything.

https://elections.suntimes.com/runoff-questionnaire/

Originally Posted by jboy560

Also, CPS massively improved during Vallas’ tenure.

The pension issue came after his term, but he was the first one to skip pension payments which laid the foundation for our current problem. Then the student improvements disappeared and he got fired.

Test scores did rise under Vallas--at least initially. When Daley appointed him, only 30% of students in grades 3 through 8 were above the national average in math. Now that figure is up to 43%. In reading, 35% of the students are above the national average, up from 29%.

But those close to the district say that the improvement in the district--where 85% of the students are low-income and 87% African American or Latino--is less impressive than it seems.

The university-based Chicago Consortium on Chicago School Research reported earlier this year that student learning peaked in 1997, soon after the district began holding back students in grades 3, 6 and 8 with low test scores.

[jboy560]

And if the selective enrollment schools go away, you think parents are just going to send their kids to neighborhood CPS schools? You apparently think your closest neighborhood school isn’t good enough and just said if you don’t get into a selective enrollment school, you’ll have to move or pay for private school. If selective enrollment schools go away, that’s just going to lead to an exodus of CPS students either through families fleeing to the burbs for better public schools or enrolling their kids in private schools. Those parents are going to continue to do the same calculation you just referenced, but there won’t be any selective enrollment schools to convince them to stay. No one wants to gamble their child’s education and they won’t just cross their fingers and hope their neighborhood school improves when other options are taken away.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by jboy560

And if the selective enrollment schools go away, you think parents are just going to send their kids to neighborhood CPS schools? You apparently think your closest neighborhood school isn’t good enough and just said if you don’t get into a selective enrollment school, you’ll have to move or pay for private school.

I think you misunderstood. If Disney II became a true neighborhood school instead of just taking the 40% who win the lottery, I would absolutely send my kids there. They turned my neighborhood school into a selective enrollment school, that's the issue.

Originally Posted by jboy560

If selective enrollment schools go away, that’s just going to lead to an exodus of CPS students either through families fleeing to the burbs for better public schools or enrolling their kids in private schools.

As I shared in my personal experience, this is already happening. I could name multiple families in my son's pre-k 4 class who are looking to move (to Park Ridge, Arlington Heights, etc.) before kindergarten starts next year. They haven't even gotten their selective enrollment results back.

Originally Posted by jboy560

Those parents are going to continue to do the same calculation you just referenced, but there won’t be any selective enrollment schools to convince them to stay. No one wants to gamble their child’s education and they won’t just cross their fingers and hope their neighborhood school improves when other options are taken away.

No doubt it would create issues, I don't deny that. It's also true that we are currently living with the issues from decisions made 20 years ago (increasing selective enrollment, skipping pension payments, etc.).

[jboy560]

Ah, got it. I did misunderstand you so I appreciate the clarification. I still think the current system of school choice has value, but I see what you’re saying.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jboy560

And if the selective enrollment schools go away, you think parents are just going to send their kids to neighborhood CPS schools? You apparently think your closest neighborhood school isn’t good enough and just said if you don’t get into a selective enrollment school, you’ll have to move or pay for private school. If selective enrollment schools go away, that’s just going to lead to an exodus of CPS students either through families fleeing to the burbs for better public schools or enrolling their kids in private schools. Those parents are going to continue to do the same calculation you just referenced, but there won’t be any selective enrollment schools to convince them to stay. No one wants to gamble their child’s education and they won’t just cross their fingers and hope their neighborhood school improves when other options are taken away.

Nope, even more families will flee Chicago. How many people here actually have kids in CPS? Thank goodness mine are all in HS now. Only 2 more years and no more of CTUs nonsense for us. Other than the tax burden of course.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by ebitdadada

1. The guy who is liked by some people I really really don't like (but who on the other hand has disavowed to varying levels those same folks & is endorsed Dick Durbin, Arnie Dunkin, Bobby Rush, Willi Wilson, etc.) + has decades of experience running large organizations.

2. Guy who is a member of, has had their campaign generated by, and is fully funded by an organization who's involvement in the mayoral race (not to mention their attempt to fully capture it) is hugely, hugely problematic + has practically 0 management experience.

Even ignoring policy, where I probably align a bit more with Vallas, what gets me is this:

A: I'm a director, have managed smallish teams for 10 years, and have loads of finance experience. But... I don't think for a billion years I'm qualified to run the city of Chicago. Johnson has less management experience than I do and him thinking he's qualified to run Chicago is a giant insult to both the concept of expertise and anyone who lives in Chicago & is expected to gamble on him.

B: Johnson's alignment with the CTU is just disqualifying from any reasonable good governance perspective. Let's say the city's largest vendor was an asphalt company: If that company picked one of their employees to run for mayor then, funded and supported that person, could anybody really say that was ok? The CTU is either Chicago's biggest vendor (I don't know for sure) or one of them.

C: While I personally despise the police union, especially Cantazzzara, morale is very low (and some of it for understandable reasons), turnover is already very high, and a Johnson win is likely to accelerate this (threats being inappropriate or not). We can't pick a mayor based on how we want the world we want to live in, we need to pick based on world we do live in. I'll echo Arnie Dunkin in saying if we actually want reform and not to just burn the house down, Vallas (a guy who is actually respected by the rank and file) is much more likely to achieve it.

Appreciate the thought put into this response. I honestly agree with all your points, this has been a very tough decision for me (still not made). I'll point out a few random thoughts.

• I believe that some of Vallas' experience is actually a negative. He is partial responsible for putting us into our current fiscal shape. "Daley's Budget Director" isn't a great thing when Daley, who absolutely f-d future generations budget-wise.
• Johnson has been a Cook County Commissioner since 2018. He's not totally unprepared. Next level up would be County Board President (Preckwinkle) or Mayor.
• We live in a world where the police control the discussion on public safety. I want to change that world.
• The endorsements for Vallas are definitely a plus.
• Vallas could be a good balance to a farther left council and see them wrestle back some control from the mayor.
• Turnover is high, we are bleeding cops...yet murders are down again this year. Maybe they don't impact it that much.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by jboy560

And if the selective enrollment schools go away, you think parents are just going to send their kids to neighborhood CPS schools? You apparently think your closest neighborhood school isn’t good enough and just said if you don’t get into a selective enrollment school, you’ll have to move or pay for private school. If selective enrollment schools go away, that’s just going to lead to an exodus of CPS students either through families fleeing to the burbs for better public schools or enrolling their kids in private schools. Those parents are going to continue to do the same calculation you just referenced, but there won’t be any selective enrollment schools to convince them to stay. No one wants to gamble their child’s education and they won’t just cross their fingers and hope their neighborhood school improves when other options are taken away.

Honestly, the CPS can improve if they have the power to do away with problematic students. I wouldn't my child's academic potential having to navigate those type of students.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

Honestly, the CPS can improve if they have the power to do away with problematic students. I wouldn't my child's academic potential having to navigate those type of students.

Yes, yes, all great societies have in common the public wielding of the "power to do away with problematic students".

[cityofneighborhoods]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

Honestly, the CPS can improve if they have the power to do away with problematic students. I wouldn't my child's academic potential having to navigate those type of students.

Good lord, wtf? It’s the public school system. What on earth are you suggesting should happen to the kids you deem problematic? This is next level internet shit. CHILDREN attend public schools

[jboy560]

The relationship between Johnson and the CTU was a dealbreaker from the beginning, in my opinion, but rank-and-file CTU members have filed an unfair labor practice charge against CTU leadership over political spending. CTU bylaws expressly state membership dues will not be used for political purposes. According to the article, “John Brosnan, an attorney for the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Board, said that the filed charges are sufficient enough for the state to investigate the complaint, which will take place within the next 10 days.”

The CTU is violating its own bylaws, violating campaign finance laws, and shirking its fiduciary duties to members to bankroll Johnson’s campaign with millions of dollars, yet we’re supposed to believe he’ll be impartial and the CTU doesn’t expect anything for all its efforts. There’s a reason they’re throwing everything behind him and it’s not “for the students.”

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/poli...nst-leadership

[Steely Dan]

Awesome news!

It's wonderful to hear about regular old teachers standing up to the crooked as all hell CTU regime.

Now if we could only get more of them.

And more cops to stand up to Cantazarra for that matter.

Man, why do the government workers unions in this town suck so hard?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Awesome news!

It's wonderful to hear about regular old teachers standing up to the crooked as all hell CTU regime.

Now if we could only get more of them.

And more cops to stand up to Cantazarra for that matter.

Man, why do the government workers unions in this town suck so hard?

We are good friends with CPS teachers. They hate CTU leadership and voted for Vallas.

[ebitdadada]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

Appreciate the thought put into this response. I honestly agree with all your points, this has been a very tough decision for me (still not made). I'll point out a few random thoughts.

• I believe that some of Vallas' experience is actually a negative. He is partial responsible for putting us into our current fiscal shape. "Daley's Budget Director" isn't a great thing when Daley, who absolutely f-d future generations budget-wise.
• Johnson has been a Cook County Commissioner since 2018. He's not totally unprepared. Next level up would be County Board President (Preckwinkle) or Mayor.
• We live in a world where the police control the discussion on public safety. I want to change that world.
• The endorsements for Vallas are definitely a plus.
• Vallas could be a good balance to a farther left council and see them wrestle back some control from the mayor.
• Turnover is high, we are bleeding cops...yet murders are down again this year. Maybe they don't impact it that much.

Thanks for your thoughtful response & I hear you on nearly all of that. I'll just say:

*I may have the wrong impression, and if Johnson wins hope I do, but I'm not sure ~5 years as Cook County Commissioner does much in qualifying someone to run the country's 3rd largest city. There are 17 Cook County Commissioners of, which Johnson is just one and, my understanding, is many of them have a full-time job along with being commissioner. As a pertinent example, Brandon Johnson, in addition to being a Cook County Commissioner is also paid $86K per year for his job as a CTU Legislative Coordinator. Nothing wrong with having 2 jobs but it does imply that Commissioner likely isn't a pressure cooker type executive job. I also think there is a huge difference between being one member of a decently large legislative body - primary role being to vote on various issues (not sure if the commissioners even have a staff to manage) and being the head of an organization that needs to actually set the agenda, manage, and hold people accountable.


*The entire issue is rather complex and I could be wrong on bits but my impression is Chicago's finances were generally improving in the 90s (Vallas was budget director 1990-93) and went sideways in the 2000s when nothing was done in the wake of the the dot-com bubble bursting. Paul Vallas was in Phili / on his way out of CPS by that time. Now... there is zero chance Paul Vallas has been perfect. He has way to long of a resume and its not surprising his record is muddy in the public view given there are multiple entire organizations with a vested interest in painting him as a failure (I'm sure any one of us could painted as a failure with selective coverage of our careers). I would say though, I'll take someone who's had actual experience, made mistakes, and learned from them over someone who's never been in the position to make mistakes then has the arrogance to think they can fix everything if only given the power any day of the week.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Yes, yes, all great societies have in common the public wielding of the "power to do away with problematic students".

Originally Posted by cityofneighborhoods

Good lord, wtf? It’s the public school system. What on earth are you suggesting should happen to the kids you deem problematic? This is next level internet shit. CHILDREN attend public schools

I stand by what I said.

I do believe these students should recieved help and guidance as needed, but not in a way that they can continue to compromise morale.

While I didn't vote for either candidate, I would be relieved if Johnson loses. He seems to care more to appeal to Twitter SJWs that don't live here than the people of Chicago.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Man, why do the government workers unions in this town suck so hard?

Because they were given a ridiculous amount of political power by Daley.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by ebitdadada

*I may have the wrong impression, and if Johnson wins hope I do, but I'm not sure ~5 years as Cook County Commissioner does much in qualifying someone to run the country's 3rd largest city. There are 17 Cook County Commissioners of, which Johnson is just one and, my understanding, is many of them have a full-time job along with being commissioner. As a pertinent example, Brandon Johnson, in addition to being a Cook County Commissioner is also paid $86K per year for his job as a CTU Legislative Coordinator. Nothing wrong with having 2 jobs but it does imply that Commissioner likely isn't a pressure cooker type executive job. I also think there is a huge difference between being one member of a decently large legislative body - primary role being to vote on various issues (not sure if the commissioners even have a staff to manage) and being the head of an organization that needs to actually set the agenda, manage, and hold people accountable.

I was just saying I don’t see it as much different than a 2-term Alderperson running for Mayor. Aldermen all have second jobs (so do many state legislatures). If anything, County Commissioners represent far more people than the average alderperson (400k versus 70k constituents).

That said, I would absolutely prefer more applicable experience. But I don’t see it as a huge negative the way it’s often portrayed. For Vallas, I wish he had more government experience that wasn’t from 20 years ago.

[lakeshoredrive]

Hoping we get a winner declared tonight so this is not dragged out any further.

[twister244]

Well - Initial reports from WGN show Vallas at 52.90% with 21% reporting - FWIW:

https://wgntv.com/illinois-election-results/

[Steely Dan]

Now with 66% of precincts in, this thing is razor close.

Vallas: 51.2%
Johnson: 48.8%


Either way, we'll get to have a very divided city, just as our stupid nation.

And everybody loses!!!