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  #1001  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2023, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
MSG Spokesperson at last Community Board meeting..

"sure we would def. consider moving if you give us W 32-34 and 7th Avenue to build a new MSG!

No such plans are being considered for MSG to move across the street on the Hotel Penn and other sites owned by Vornado.. but I like that MSG went on the offensive here.

It's as far fetched as it comes.. just can't see Vornado giving up those lots, but damn it would be a game changer for the rebuilding of Penn Station.

There was a visionary idea of MSG moving over to that side of 7th Avenue, but nothing more.

What does everyone think??


https://nypost.com/2023/02/25/madiso...reet-official/


It aint happenin. Sure they would move across the street if the state paid the $8 or $9 billion it would cost. All you would be doing though is swapping places with skyscrapers. Let's not forget that was the goal the last time they tried to move MSG (to Moynihan). Those air rights are still in play, and are NOT a part of the state's redevelopment plan.

But mostly, the state has no interests in it for one simple reason. Moving it does NOTHING to improve conditions at Penn Station. Some people like the thought of moving the Garden because they think the fantasy of rebuilding the original Penn would be in play. It won't. Partly because 2 Penn still stands (it's getting larger, in fact). But the biggest issue regarding building the original station is - ta da! the station is still there. It never left. It never got smaller. The only thing they did was remove the building that stood over it and replaced it with another. If the original building still stood, we'd still be in the predicament that we are in today. That's because the original station wasn't built to handle what it does today. You would still need the expansion, and various improvements that will take place with the state's plan. That's why they aren't pursuing the fool's mission of replacing the Garden. It does nothing to enhance or improve Penn Station itself. Could you get a prettier building above ground to look at? Absolutely. But not for the billions and headaches it will costs.

Of course, most people don't know or think about these things. So if you give them some hope, they'll dream. But the reality is that what they dream of (rebuilding the original) is neither feasible, nor an improvement for Penn Station operations
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  #1002  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2023, 4:11 AM
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  #1003  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2023, 2:59 PM
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It aint happenin. Sure they would move across the street if the state paid the $8 or $9 billion it would cost. All you would be doing though is swapping places with skyscrapers. Let's not forget that was the goal the last time they tried to move MSG (to Moynihan). Those air rights are still in play, and are NOT a part of the state's redevelopment plan.

But mostly, the state has no interests in it for one simple reason. Moving it does NOTHING to improve conditions at Penn Station. Some people like the thought of moving the Garden because they think the fantasy of rebuilding the original Penn would be in play. It won't. Partly because 2 Penn still stands (it's getting larger, in fact). But the biggest issue regarding building the original station is - ta da! the station is still there. It never left. It never got smaller. The only thing they did was remove the building that stood over it and replaced it with another. If the original building still stood, we'd still be in the predicament that we are in today. That's because the original station wasn't built to handle what it does today. You would still need the expansion, and various improvements that will take place with the state's plan. That's why they aren't pursuing the fool's mission of replacing the Garden. It does nothing to enhance or improve Penn Station itself. Could you get a prettier building above ground to look at? Absolutely. But not for the billions and headaches it will costs.

Of course, most people don't know or think about these things. So if you give them some hope, they'll dream. But the reality is that what they dream of (rebuilding the original) is neither feasible, nor an improvement for Penn Station operations

KILLJOY!! LOL! (:

Yeah we all know that moving MSG doesn't do anything to improve Penn Station and without 2 Penn also coming down which i certainly advocated for, the dream of rebuilding the original with modern touches is an impossibility.. but hey.. what's wrong with dreamin! (:

Few things that a such a move would've accomplish is..

1- Rebuild a modern version of Penn Station above ground on the old MSG site

2- Build a state of the art new MSG right across the Avenue - i'm a huge Rangers and Knicks fan.. having gone to hundreds of games and concerts at MSG!

3- Stop in it's tracks that monstrosity of Lord Foster's.. PENN15.. what a POS!

Just a dream.. but us lifelong NYer's like to dream! (:
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  #1004  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2023, 12:55 PM
Doubleu1117 Doubleu1117 is offline
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The video board under the new escalator entrance is finally finished and all the construction barriers taken down. Looks great. Interested to see what they display, just a big Long Island Rail Road text right now. Might be able to grab a picture on my way home.
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  #1005  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 3:33 PM
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Penn Station redevelopment isn’t dead yet, Gov. Hochul says

https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stat...ov-hochul-says

Crux is Vornado will move ahead on a far slower timeline (interest rates up, office market terrible) so revenue isn't available to pay for much of the plan. The only options I see on the table are to switch uses (huge amount of residential) or dramatically scale back state ambitions.
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  #1006  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Penn Station redevelopment isn’t dead yet, Gov. Hochul says

https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stat...ov-hochul-says

Crux is Vornado will move ahead on a far slower timeline (interest rates up, office market terrible) so revenue isn't available to pay for much of the plan. The only options I see on the table are to switch uses (huge amount of residential) or dramatically scale back state ambitions.


I don’t see a need to switch anything. The plan was already adjusted to allow a switch to residential on a couple of towers. But Vornado only accounts for half of the towers, and only one was planned to go forward in the near term (15 Penn). As far as we can tell, that may still happen. The hotel itself should be demolished by next year, but one comment from Vornado - who’s known for changing gears on development, shouldn’t throw anything into chaos. But the media would have it no other way. (Who wants to read that things are going according to plan?)

The thing about the other half of the planned tower development is tgat they can’t issue an rfp for the sites until the federal government formally announces the south expansion. But yeah, the tower development was always looked at as taking place over the long term.
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  #1007  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I don’t see a need to switch anything. The plan was already adjusted to allow a switch to residential on a couple of towers. But Vornado only accounts for half of the towers, and only one was planned to go forward in the near term (15 Penn). As far as we can tell, that may still happen. The hotel itself should be demolished by next year, but one comment from Vornado - who’s known for changing gears on development, shouldn’t throw anything into chaos. But the media would have it no other way. (Who wants to read that things are going according to plan?)

The thing about the other half of the planned tower development is tgat they can’t issue an rfp for the sites until the federal government formally announces the south expansion. But yeah, the tower development was always looked at as taking place over the long term.
No, I think they need to more heavily rebalance the redevelopment to residential for which demand actually exists. It could be quite a few years before office demand ticks up enough to make the towers viable and that means no extra money for the Penn rehab in the meantime.
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  #1008  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2023, 12:29 PM
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This article doesn’t make a lot of sense, but we’ve seen a version of this MSG plan before….


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/n...ochul-nyc.html

Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass
The previous proposal to help pay for the renovation of the station, which could cost up to $10 billion in state funds, has been shelved.






By Dana Rubinstein and Stefanos Chen
March 28, 2023


Quote:
The proposal from a subsidiary of the Italian firm ASTM Group calls for the construction of a rectangular glass station around Madison Square Garden. The Garden would be covered in aluminum and steel, and two new light-filled train halls would replace the notoriously cramped and dark station — all of which could be completed by 2030, the firm has said.

Ms. Hochul, who has indicated that she is open to alternatives to the state’s partnership with Vornado Realty Trust — the firm expected to lead redevelopment around the station — has not publicly weighed in on the new proposal, but it has piqued the interest of elected officials and local community groups.

The governor is not obliged to pick an alternative proposal, and Vornado officials say they hope to continue with their agreement. While the Vornado plan has been abandoned in the short-term, it could be revived if economic conditions improve.
Quote:
The new proposal is being spearheaded by two well-connected political operators: Patrick J. Foye, a former chief executive of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and a former executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey; and Peter Cipriano, a former senior infrastructure adviser to Elaine Chao, the transportation secretary during the Trump administration.

Mr. Foye now works as chief executive of ASTM North America, a subsidiary of the Italian infrastructure firm that specializes in public-private partnerships, and Mr. Cipriano is the group’s senior vice president.
Both men have spent much of March marketing their proposal to elected officials and civic leaders in the Penn Station area, and MSG Entertainment, which operates the Garden, said it is open to the plans, according to sources familiar with the talks.

“ As we’ve said, we are always open to discussions,” said an MSG spokeswoman. “As invested members of our community, we are deeply committed to improving Penn Station and the surrounding area, and we continue to collaborate closely with a wide range of stakeholders to advance this shared goal.”
Quote:
To build a grand, street-level entrance for the new Penn Station, ASTM would demolish the Theater at MSG, a 5,600-person venue near the Eighth Avenue side of the complex. The Madison Square Garden arena itself would be surrounded by a roughly 90-foot-tall glass podium designed to mirror the dimensions of the Beaux-Arts-style James A. Farley Building across the street.

Inside, the Eighth Avenue hall would have 55-foot ceilings above the new passenger concourse and a mix of retail and waiting areas and possibly a homeless outreach center. All 21 tracks would be accessible from the new halls, with additional staircases, elevators and escalators.
A new mid-block train hall, which would abut an office building at 2 Penn Plaza, would be wrapped in a 100-foot-tall glass enclosure, creating a sunny arcade for pedestrians moving between West 31st and 33rd Streets.
Quote:
ASTM has said its cost projection will not be ready until June — when it had been planning to unveil the proposal — but has argued the project will cost significantly less than the original plan. Proponents of the new proposal add that it would not prevent Vornado, which would remain a large landowner in the Penn Station district, from developing the area in the future.

The company and its equity partners would pay for the upfront costs of construction and any cost overruns. They would then manage and operate the station for 50 years, according to people familiar with the proposal. Amtrak, which owns the station, and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and New Jersey Transit, its biggest users, would repay ASTM over time, relying on their own capital resources as well as federal funds.

“Amtrak looks forward to hearing more from ASTM and their proposal for Penn Station as part of the project development process for Penn Reconstruction,” said a spokesman for Amtrak.


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  #1009  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 12:20 AM
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See toilet comment in other thread.
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  #1010  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 4:29 AM
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A little bit more from the Post...


https://nypost.com/2023/03/28/design...m-ex-mta-boss/

Quote:
The plan shares a several major features with the current one. It would keep Madison Square Garden above the Penn Station, but clads the base in glass.

The designs show that the Hulu Theater, which is owned by MSG, would be demolished to make way for a grand new entrance to the station on the Eight Avenue side, across the street from Moynihan Train Hall.

Illustrations also show the designers also aim to build a new entrance into the complex between Seventh and Eighth Avenues in the space that was once occupied by a cab stand and now sits largely unused. The new design appears to be scaled back from the one initially proposed by the MTA.

This proposal does not currently include the MTA’s planned underground walkway that would finally link Penn Station directly to the nearby Herald Square subway station, which a major hub for the N/Q/R/W and B/D/F/M lines, a spokesman confirmed.

The biggest change proposed by Foye and the Italians, however, appears to be nixing the MTA’s current plans to overhaul and expand the usually crowded entrances to Penn Station from the Seventh Avenue side.

That change left MTA officials leery, though they said they were still awaiting a full briefing from ASTM.

“We look forward to a full briefing on these concepts,” said MTA spokesman John McCarthy. “However, we remain concerned that the proposal, as described so far, lacks key elements of the Master Plan agreed to by Amtrak, New Jersey Transit and MTA.”




Midblock concourse between MSG and 2 Penn...






Removal of Hulu Theater...







This was Extell's proposal.















A vision from the Municipal Art Society...



https://stewartmader.com/a-viable-pl...-penn-station/
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  #1011  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 2:29 PM
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Sorry if this was asked before, but is the work that LIRR doing on their waiting room and the connecting concourse going to be incorporated into the final design? Or is it all just gonna be for nothing in the end.
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  #1012  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mfastx View Post
Sorry if this was asked before, but is the work that LIRR doing on their waiting room and the connecting concourse going to be incorporated into the final design? Or is it all just gonna be for nothing in the end.
Yes, the LIRR concourse will not be remodeled in any proposal here. The concourse physically is under 33rd street.

In addition some of the justification for starting with the LIRR concourse was so that there would be added circulation capacity when the main portion of the station closes.

Both leading proposals will remove most of the upper level, and greatly expand the lower level of the station. In the end the majority of Penn station will be on the same level of the present LIRR concourse.
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  #1013  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 8:08 PM
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At this point, I'm satisfied with the most recent "Proposal", all parties should do whatever it takes to make it happen. Vornado can pay a special assessment in exchange for upzonings so the state can recoup any costs incurred. IMO its about damn time that state invests more into its economic hub.
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  #1014  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2023, 1:52 AM
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https://njbiz.com/gdc-reveals-new-hu...oject-details/

GDC reveals new Hudson Tunnel Project details


Matthew Fazelpoor
April 19, 2023


Quote:
The Gateway Development Commission (GDC) announced a revised procurement strategy April 18 for the Hudson Tunnel Project.

That approach centers on dividing the “Civil Works” portion of construction – the largest piece of the undertaking – into four packages, including additional early works projects. That endeavor will encompass the excavation and construction of a new tunnel under the Palisades in New Jersey and the Hudson River, connecting to Penn Station in Manhattan.

This portion of the project consists of two tubes, each 2.4 miles long.

The GDC believes that breaking down the work into four packages instead of one will ensure a robust and competitive bidding pool for the work.
Quote:
The four packages include:

- 1A: The portion of the tunnel through the Palisades to the construction shaft in Hoboken, which will be delivered via Design-Bid-Build.

- 1B: The section of the tunnel going through the bulkhead of the West Side of Manhattan, under Hudson River Park and connecting to the new construction shaft between West 30th Street and 29th Streets, which will be delivered via Design-Build.

- 1C: Including the tunneling under the Hudson River from the new construction shaft in Hoboken to the new construction shaft in Manhattan, which will be delivered via Design-Bid-Build.

- EA1: An early work project that is described as a “Hudson River Ground Stabilization” package, which will help de-risk the full project by fortifying and stabilizing the river bottom on the New York side of the Hudson River. The work will create an improved condition in which to bore the new tunnel through the eastern portion of the Hudson River section of the project and will comply with all environmental regulations to ensure protection of the river, fish and wildlife. It will be delivered via Design-Build.

Packages 1A and 1B are scheduled to begin work in 2024 after a Full Funding Grant Agreement under the FTA’s Capital Investment Grants Program is signed by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) and GDC. Package 1C is scheduled to commence work in 2025, while Contract Package EA1 is an early work project that is expected to commence prior to the project’s full construction.

The GDC says that this new strategy was developed after receiving feedback from multiple potential contractors at a February event, followed by a series of one-on-one follow-up meetings. The packages were further refined in partnership with the FTA, as part of the work to advance the Capital Investment Grant process GDC is currently undergoing.
Quote:
There are also plans for additional early works for Package 1 projects, including: The Manhattan Bulkhead Tunneling Work; Excavation Work Near 12th Avenue in New York; and the Tonnelle Avenue Area Portal Preparation Work.

GDC says that each of these advance the design of their respective package, helping de-risk the project by providing more certainty to contractors.

...The GDC also anticipates that the initial contract – the Hudson River Ground Stabilization Contract Package EA1 – will begin the procurement process in the coming period with a Request for Qualifications. The procurement for the Palisades Tunnel Contract Package 1A is expected to follow shortly after.

Tony Coscia, GDC vice-chair and Amtrak commissioner, said that this project is vital.

“We will always move nimbly in ensuring that we are utilizing best practices in contracting and in moving early work forward so we can finally replace a more than century-old tunnel that the nation’s economy relies upon with modern, 21st Century rail,” said Coscia.
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  #1015  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2023, 1:53 AM
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BTW, we don't talk about it much, but one of the major components of the Gateway project is the new Portal Bridge being built. They've been moving with great speed on that, and you can visually see progress as trains pass by on the old bridge.

The current bridge, which gets stuck in the "open" position, is a big contributor to delays in and out of Penn Station. It's been a longtime headache, and the sooner the new bridge is operational, the better. It will be some time though.



https://www.northjersey.com/story/ne...ys/3226334001/


New Bridge



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  #1016  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2023, 2:20 AM
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  #1017  
Old Posted May 18, 2023, 3:15 AM
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https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qei-story.html

Fix Penn and leave MSG in place: Renovate the train station and keep the arena where it is


By Elizabeth Goldstein
May 17, 2023


Quote:
The long, agonizing debate over redeveloping Penn Station has lost sight of what should be the central question: what is best for the thousands of travelers who pass through Penn Station every day.

Instead, most of the discussion has centered on the surrounding real estate development and on Madison Square Garden. Indeed, the Municipal Art Society and other civic organizations have long argued that moving MSG is the only way to fix the many problems with Penn Station.

.....The design, from the Italian infrastructure company ASTM and architectural firm HOK, envisions a sun-filled central train hall with connections to every existing train track and vastly improved passenger experience throughout the station. The proposal allows for a dynamic interaction between Moynihan and Penn that hasn’t existed for 60 years. Most importantly, it would create a soaring entrance and a dramatic above-ground presence for Penn on Eighth Ave.

This proposal needs to be taken seriously by all of the players involved at Penn Station. The Municipal Art Society has been one of the most vocal organizations calling for the relocation of MSG, so this is not an easy thing for me to say out loud, never mind in print. But, the design, made possible by the removal of the former Hulu Theater, causes us to reconsider that position in favor of exploring this potentially game-changing idea.

This new plan does not provide solutions to all of the difficulties at Penn Station. More must be done to resolve the congestion and confusion riders face when entering from Seventh Ave.

But, while some have argued that Eighth Ave. is simply Penn’s backdoor and not worth such a significant investment, that view misses the very real benefits of developing the Eighth Ave. side. Roughly 40% of travelers, or more than 250,000 people, enter Penn every day from Eighth Ave. That is hardly a back door, and all projections indicate that foot traffic from the west will continue to rise.

To achieve a vision of a world-class Penn Station we need all the various actors to work in concert. In her very first press conference on Penn Station, Gov. Hochul called for a development corporation. We urge her to follow through on that idea. We need a conductor to ensure that all of the interested parties — federal, state, and local governments, and the transit agencies, and Amtrak — work together harmoniously.

Goldstein is the president of the Municipal Art Society of New York.


https://www.amny.com/opinion/madison...t-where-it-is/

Op-Ed | Madison Square Garden needs to stay right where it is





By Michael Wekselblatt & Thomas J. O’Donnell


Quote:
Madison Square Garden, The World’s Most Famous Arena, is a New York institution and a massive economic engine that employs thousands of full and part-time union workers. There are many reasons why MSG should be allowed to stay right where it is, but for us – Stagehands and Teamsters – moving The Garden would negatively impact our hard-working union members and their families.

The Garden is currently in the process of renewing its special permit, which expires in July. It’s technically this permit that allows the arena to host events with more than 2,500 spectators. But we all know that what The Garden really does is bring tens of thousands of people together for unforgettable events – Knicks and Rangers games; sporting events like March Madness and boxing; concerts from the world’s biggest artists; and special events such as NYPD and college graduations.

Union labor relies on these events not only for our work, but also health and other benefits, and pension credits. The thought of any of those events disappearing, and with them union-backed jobs, would not only be a significant loss for the families across our region that rely on them, but also for the City, especially as it recovers from the pandemic and rebuilds its economy. MSG delivers an annual economic impact of more than $2 billion to the City and State and has partnerships with 15 labor unions, including ours. None of this would be possible if The Garden was denied its ability to host large-scale events.
Quote:
But it’s not only hardworking families or the City’s coffers that would suffer with the loss of The Garden’s special permit. As the City’s biggest and most influential arena, MSG also supports an entire ecosystem of businesses that are dependent on large-scale events for their own economic success.

While a few vocal detractors oppose renewing The Garden’s special permit in the hope it would force MSG to move as part of a theoretical renovation of Penn Station, this argument is just not based in reality. The Garden sits on private land it owns. And the only credible plan to renovate Penn Station that has been announced by Governor Kathy Hochul leaves MSG right where it is.

As the Empire State Development Corporation recently noted, any attempt to move The Garden would cost taxpayers a staggering amount of money – more than $8.5 billion — that would be far better used to address the City’s other urgent priorities. Why spend all that money to move The Garden when we could simply keep it where it is while still improving Penn Station?
Quote:
If we deny The Garden its ability to host more than 2,500 fans, or allow it to stay in its current location for just a few years, we jeopardize the hundreds of events it hosts yearly. This would put thousands of jobs, including union jobs, and billions of dollars in economic activity at risk.

The long-term renewal of The Garden’s special permit should be a no-brainer. No one seriously thinks Knicks playoff games or Billy Joel’s residency should be limited to audiences that would fit in a small college gymnasium.

Our members are proud to work at The Garden. It’s not only home to the most iconic sports, entertainment, and cultural events, but it’s also an important part of our community and a long-time supporter of union labor.

It is time to approve The Garden’s special permit in perpetuity.



https://nypost.com/2023/05/17/msg-ne...ation-glow-up/

MSG negotiating deal to sell former Hulu Theater for $1B to make way for Penn Station overhaul


By Patrick Reilly and Josh Kosman
May 17, 2023


Quote:
An Italian private development company is negotiating a $1 billion deal with Madison Square Garden to purchase the venue’s theater and knock it down as part of its proposal to reshape Penn Station, according to a report.

The potential sale of the The Theater at Madison Square Garden and a service road next to the Garden to the ASTM Group was reported late Wednesday by Crain’s New York.

The outlet reported that a deal between the two companies is nearing, but a source told The Post that an agreement is nowhere near close to being inked.

“We have a path forward to deliver our project that fully considers all aspects from property acquisition to construction; financing, and the long-term relationship between the new station building and MSG,” Peter Cipriano, senior vice president for project management at ASTM North America, told Crain’s in an emailed statement.

ASTM pitched a plan in March to renovate Penn Station as a cheaper alternative after a previous $7 billion MTA proposal to overhaul the Midtown transit hub was postponed.

Under ASTM’s plan, the developer would tear down the theater and build a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue across from the new Moynihan Train Hall. It would also manage the station for 50 years.

Janno Lieber, chief executive of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, told the outlet the cost to demolish the theater and to build a new entrance could cost as much as $2 billion.

The developer would also build a rectangular glass base surrounding the Garden, allowing natural light into the basement of the train station from the west and east.

ASTM said it would renovate the country’s busiest train station with public and private funds.

MSG would not confirm that a deal has been reached.

“As invested members of our community, we are deeply committed to improving Penn Station and the surrounding area, and we continue to collaborate closely with a wide range of stakeholders to advance this shared goal,” MSG told The Post in a statement.

This proposal does not currently include the MTA’s planned underground walkway that would finally link Penn Station directly to the nearby Herald Square subway station, which is a major hub for the N/Q/R/W and B/D/F/M lines, a spokesman confirmed.

The ASTM plan also appears to be nixing the MTA’s proposal to overhaul and expand the usually crowded entrances to Penn Station from the Seventh Avenue side.


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  #1018  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2023, 5:43 PM
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Bombshell Report: After More than 50 Years, Railroads Now Say MSG is “Not Compatible” Atop Penn Station

A just released “Compatibility Report on MSG” by the big three railroad titans says that while loading plan arrangements were fine in a bygone era in the early 60s, that is no longer the case in 21st century NYC. MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit in a show of unity are all calling for major changes in a dramatic new statement released June 2 about the future of Penn Station. MSG Entertainment, the owner of the Garden, blasted the new report.


For half a century Madison Square Garden, the fourth arena of that name, has sat atop Penn Station like a dental cap sealing the root of an extracted tooth.

Now, after all that time, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has joined with two other railroad behemoths, Amtrak and NJ Transit, saying the arena and the station are “not compatible.”

“The Garden’s site plan and loading arrangements may have been compatible with Penn Station and the surrounding community in the early 1960’s,” The MTA, Amtrak and Jersey Transit said Friday in a report.

“Today, however, MSG’s existing configuration and property boundaries impose severe constraints on the Station that impede the safe and efficient movement of passengers and restrict efforts to implement improvements, particularly at the street and platform levels.”

The timing of this statement was dramatic. Coming essentially on the eve of the City Planning Commission hearing June 7th to consider whether the Gardens permit to operate a large arena on that site should be extended after it expires July 24th.

A spokesperson for MSG Entertainment, which owns the Garden, pushed back: “We are disappointed to see this compatibility report from the MTA and the other rail agencies, considering how we have been cooperating throughout this process. This is the opinion of a few and not all stakeholders involved.”

The question of the Garden’s location has become entangled with several other interlocking issues, including how to create an acceptable train station, whether to expand the station to accommodate more trains and whether to build ten new super-tall office towers around the station.

If holding two thoughts at once is a challenge in public debate, integrating all of these interests has become one of New York’s most difficult and important civic Rubik’s cubes.

Which is why on any given day it seems the focus is on the most immediate piece of the puzzle.

Jamie Torres-Springer, who is the MTA’s President of Construction and development, told the MTA Board the other day that the MTA had been asked by the City Planning Commission for a report on whether the Garden and the train station, the busiest in North America and possibly the dankest, were compatible

“So at this point, we would have to say that they are not compatible and not headed in the direction of compatibility.”

On its face, this statement would appear to support the community and architectural movement to force the Garden to move so a better Penn Station can be built.

But that interpretation is, to say the least, confusing, since the MTA under the direction of Governor Kathy Hochul has been vehement that Penn Station can and should be improved quickly without waiting the years it would take, to say nothing of the costs, to find a new location for the Garden and move it.

The MTA holds this view so intently that it is even resisting a middle plan, proposed by an Italian developer, to leave the Garden in place but rip away the theatre and other structures around it to make way for a grand entrance on Eight Avenue.

Torres- Springer, in fact, said at the MTA meeting this would be a waste of scarce capital, even if some of the capital would come from the Italian developer, ASTM. Among other things the developer would need to buy the Madison Square Garden Theatre from The Garden, at a price that Torres-Springer said was in the neighborhood of a billion dollars.

On Friday, June 2, the MTA and the other railroads submitted their “compatibility report” to the city planning commission, laying out what they wanted from Madison Square Garden in exchange for the new operating permit it is requesting.

Fundamentally, the railroads want MSG to pay some of the costs for renovation and to agree to what they called “property swaps” in which MSG would give the railroads some land it owns to create a new midblock entrance to the train station, build new entrances at the corners of 31st and 33rd and Eight Avenue and build a new loading area for trucks servicing MSG events to get them off the streets.


Rest: https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/b...tion-BD2566333
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  #1019  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2023, 4:18 AM
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The railroads make the case for the Penn Station/Madison Square Garden marriage with their proposed improvements to Penn Station...






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NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
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  #1020  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 7:58 PM
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They’ve finally realized the error their ways, and have returned to the redevelopment set up that was in place when Cuomo was in charge…


https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-n...design-process

Office Towers Nixed From Penn Plan, Gov Kicks Off Redesign Process
Hochul says the redesign will be "commuter-first," and that she won't wait for new revenue to get the process started.






By Peter Senzamici, Patch Staff
Jun 26, 2023


Quote:
Farewell office towers, for now.

Governor Hochul announced today alongside Rep. Jerry Nadler and local elected officials that the plan to fix the notoriously dank tunnel system known as Penn Station will begin to proceed.

The Gov. is greasing the train wheels by ditching the controversial $13 billion Vornado office tower plan that would have helped fund the project by redeveloping a huge area surrounding the station — for now.

"We're no longer tolerating delays," Hochul said at a Monday press conference as protesters loudly shouted in the background.

The biggest change is that the Penn Station Master Plan, the name of the station redesign project, is being "decoupled" from the larger Vornado development project of 10 huge skyscrapers that would have helped subsidize the station.

Many criticized the plan, calling it a handout to the deep-pocketed developers that would have destroyed the surrounding neighborhood. Today's announcement included Hochul conceding that while the demand is not currently there to support the construction of the towers, the full redevelopment plan could proceed in the future.

What is not entirely clear is where the $7 billion to pay for the redesign will come from now that the big office towers are out of the picture for now.

Hochul said that the state is already committed to spending at least $1.3 billion and is applying for various federal funding as well. But the lack of totally secured funding, she said, can't hold up the process.
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NEW YORK is Back!

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
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