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  #6181  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2023, 11:26 AM
ocman ocman is offline
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I’m still surprised the LV HSR line is getting made. I was betting it wouldn’t. But now that it is and if it ever completes, the state should become really serious about connecting this closer to the existing rail infrastructure in LA.
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  #6182  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2023, 7:50 PM
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  #6183  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 6:19 PM
LAsam LAsam is online now
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Scathing indictment of LA Metro by LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-metro-trains

L.A. riders bail on Metro trains amid ‘horror’ of deadly drug overdoses, crime
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  #6184  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
Scathing indictment of LA Metro by LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-metro-trains

L.A. riders bail on Metro trains amid ‘horror’ of deadly drug overdoses, crime
Hopefully articles like this will spur some political action
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  #6185  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 1:04 AM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
Scathing indictment of LA Metro by LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-metro-trains

L.A. riders bail on Metro trains amid ‘horror’ of deadly drug overdoses, crime
Oh I experienced the foolishness the last few times I rode the subway and havent been back. From open drug use to yelling in cars, it is the worst I've ever seen it and I used to be a daily commuter from my home to DTLA for work stuff. I thought about sending this picture I took to Metro, but I didn't think they would do anything without me putting in immense energy to get them to listen and take action. I couldn't believe that people were so bold as to do this in front of me unashamed. Its like they are given permission to do this without consequence.

Every (grade separated train) should be automated from now on and the driver flow through the train validating fares, ensuring safety, and giving customer service. Funny, the green line was designed to be automated, but Union jobs! We can still write our elected officials to push for automation on newer lines as well as converting the red line and purple lines. I make sure to voice it at every moment of public input I see for Sepulveda line


Last edited by hughfb3; Mar 15, 2023 at 1:26 AM.
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  #6186  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 5:04 AM
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My husband and I are veteran transit riders--we lived in San Francisco without a car for 18 years before moving here. We took the Metrolink downtown one Sunday last month, and after walking around a ton all day, we rode the Metro just two or three stops back to Union Station. Neither one of us had ever taken the train in LA, even when we lived here 20 years ago. And now I know why.

A loud, painted, and very animated young woman was eating her leftovers while pacing around, shouting a stream of consciousness rant at several interested single guys of various backgrounds and ages. We tried to keep a low profile, but she came very near where we were sitting, while her rapt audience watched, and loudly announced to the entire train car that "I don't like gays, yo!"

We were concerned the guys competing for her attention might act against us, which I think might have been her intent, but fortunately we were at the end of the line and were able to exit that scene quickly.

Needless to say, I won't be able to convince my better half that we should take the subway again. Not that I would want try to convince him of doing that, mind you, considering our first/last ride.
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  #6187  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 5:27 AM
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Wow that's ridiculous. I can't see myself wanting to ride either with all that stuff going on. Seems like almost every place is having issues with transit, but the places that have it the worst seem to be the ones with the highest proportion of captive riders. I assume that must be the case with LA considering the size of the city compared to the relatively modest ridership. It becomes a sort of vicious cycle in that when a system is mostly only used by people without other options, choice riders get pushed out which makes the proportion of captive riders even higher. Of course most captive riders are just poor and won't bother anyone but there's usually a larger proportion with other issues like drug addiction and/or mental illness compared to choice riders since those issues often affect a person's ability to afford and/or operate a vehicle.
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  #6188  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 6:01 AM
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The darkness of being underground breeds a certain filth in the aura. I used to be a big proponent for subways in LA. It is for this very reason that I’ve switched my position to push LA for sun filled purely elevated systems when possible. I’ve ridden the dark subways as a daily commuter and prefer the light and elevation that deters such riff raff. Sunlight doesn’t deter everything as there is some riff raff on the expo and blue lines, but no where near the amount of the Red/Purple.
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  #6189  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 6:56 AM
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^ That's certainly an interesting theory and there's no harm in researching different options for improving transit. But there's a lot of different cities with underground transit lines that don't experience these issues, at least to the same degree. So drawing conclusions would require ruling out things like demographic differences between the areas the lines run between and through, differences in station and vehicle design, etc. Not to mention looking at actual statistics to ensure that there really are significant differences rather than just perceptions which can be misleading. The idea that crime and anti-social behaviour is caused by an "aura" reminds me of how people attributed the spread of disease to odors or "foul air" before the discovery of viruses and the development of epidemiology.
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  #6190  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 7:17 AM
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Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
The darkness of being underground breeds a certain filth in the aura. I used to be a big proponent for subways in LA. It is for this very reason that I’ve switched my position to push LA for sun filled purely elevated systems when possible. I’ve ridden the dark subways as a daily commuter and prefer the light and elevation that deters such riff raff. Sunlight doesn’t deter everything as there is some riff raff on the expo and blue lines, but no where near the amount of the Red/Purple.
I rode the Muni Metro and BART subways thousands of times. I can't say there were never any problems in all the times I rode the subways up there, but just being underground wasn't enough to make those systems unusable. That said, I much prefer elevated rail!

I think what's happening right now in the LA subways is the product of a couple of things. The first is painfully obvious--COVID has led to work-from-home and hybrid work schedules that keep a lot of workers and businesspeople off the trains, which just makes the criminals and junkies stand out even more than they did when they were just part of a bigger crowd. Second, I think LA's civic culture plays a huge role in the state of the subways right now--the region's flourishing car culture makes people want to travel in their own vehicles (despite the traffic!) whenever possible, and also, Angelenos seem very negative about and disapproving of their own city. It's very noticeable when moving here from a place that has a much more upbeat and positive sense of itself (despite having just as many of the same kinds of problems).
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  #6191  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 12:27 PM
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Brightline, Caltrans to sign pact for Apple Valley to Rancho Cucamonga rail line

By Rene Ray De La Cruz
Victorville Daily Press
March 14, 2023


"The California Department of Transportation and Brightline West plan to enter a right-of-way use agreement for a portion of the high-speed rail project along Interstate 15 between Apple Valley and Rancho Cucamonga via the Cajon Pass.

The agreement is designed to advance the development of the privately owned and operated electrified rail project that will connect Las Vegas to Southern California.

The issuance of a notice of intent on Friday kicked off a 15-day public comment period for the proposed lease agreement between Caltrans and Brightline West..."

https://www.vvdailypress.com/story/n...h/70001693007/
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  #6192  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 1:43 PM
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  #6193  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 9:11 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
My husband and I are veteran transit riders--we lived in San Francisco without a car for 18 years before moving here. We took the Metrolink downtown one Sunday last month, and after walking around a ton all day, we rode the Metro just two or three stops back to Union Station. Neither one of us had ever taken the train in LA, even when we lived here 20 years ago. And now I know why.

A loud, painted, and very animated young woman was eating her leftovers while pacing around, shouting a stream of consciousness rant at several interested single guys of various backgrounds and ages. We tried to keep a low profile, but she came very near where we were sitting, while her rapt audience watched, and loudly announced to the entire train car that "I don't like gays, yo!"

We were concerned the guys competing for her attention might act against us, which I think might have been her intent, but fortunately we were at the end of the line and were able to exit that scene quickly.

Needless to say, I won't be able to convince my better half that we should take the subway again. Not that I would want try to convince him of doing that, mind you, considering our first/last ride.
I used to be a daily Red Line commuter, and the behavioral and cleanliness issues were present pre-pandemic too, though they are much worse now due to choice riders largely choosing to not use transit anymore. I can't tell you how many times I saw people rolling blunts and dumping tobacco on the ground on the Red Line. Or homeless people passed out in seats or smoking/injecting drugs at the stations. I witnessed an old man get punched in the face by a crazed transgender person who claimed he was staring at her. Broke his glasses and bloodied his face. I saw people pull out knives and scissors as weapons...really all sorts of nonsense. Saw people shit on the platforms, and wouldn't even try an elevator due to the routine filth of those. Mind you, I rode trains at peak AM and PM rush hours-- not middle of the night or something.

I say all this to say that these issues have existed for a long time, and Metro allowed it to exist this way. When I'd discuss these issues in the past, I was accused of being inflammatory or just unaccustomed to big city living or other BS. Including here on this forum...Now that the choice riders are gone, the only people left are the crazed, drug addicted, criminals, and the poor who don't have any option for transportation. It's really sad to see how bad it's gotten, but it's hardly surprising. The article linked above even says one of the County Supervisors urging Metro to use "care-centered strategies" rather than taking an aggressive approach to combatting crime on and near Metro stations. More of the same pie in the sky nonsense from elected officials who probably never take transit themselves.
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  #6194  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 10:07 PM
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I've loved public transportation as far back in my memory as I can recall. Growing up in DC, my Dad would take me on the Metro just for fun. Being a Metro train driver was the first job I ever wanted. In LA, my wife and I would regularly take the trains (and busses) pre-pandemic. Whenever we travel we use public transportation as much as possible. Now we have a young daughter and I'd love to introduce her to trains to spark her interest, but I'm afraid to expose her to them given their current state. How many kids in LA are not being introduced to public transit because of the poor conditions and Metro is losing future riders? It seems like a large part of the solution is as simple as enforcing fares and rules... but that just doesn't seem to happen which is a shame.
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  #6195  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 5:29 PM
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That article from the LA Times was as disheartening as anything I've read in that paper in years. The county is investing billions to expand a rail system that people refuse to ride because of the conditions described in the article.

The pandemic emptied the system of commuters and the drug users, homeless and criminals came in to fill the vacuum. You can't blame LA Metro for the pandemic, but it does seem like their response to the resulting problems has been woefully inadequate. The 300 "Welcome Ambassadors" obviously aren't doing the job. No doubt the unarmed ambassadors are cheaper to hire and train than actual police, but what good can they realistically be expected to do? Is it really in their job scope to roust disruptive passengers or drug users? Obviously their presence alone is not enough to deter the scofflaws and drug users who view the trains as a safe haven for their activities. Then there are the politicians who say that the solution to this problem is solving society's greater problems not enforcement. LA County can't even do a satisfactory job providing child protective services, a duty that is assigned to it and no one else. So does Supervisor Solis really believe the County stands a realistic chance of solving the larger socioeconomic problems that underlie the problems of homelessness, criminal behavior and drug use seen on the transit system? We'll be transporting ourselves around Star Trek-style before the County ever gets around to eliminating all the socioeconomic ills of LA.

When the LA Metro started opening the rail lines, they elected to use the honor system rather than secure gates for fare enforcement. That saved money but it has made it easier for the trains to become mobile drug dens and homeless camps. I know LA Metro started adding fare gates at some stations a few years ago. They need to be beefed up so they provide a real deterrent to ticketless riders. That won't be possible at all the light rail stations, but it should work at the subway stations, and the subway lines is where the problems seem to be the worst.

And yes, they just need to hire more transit cops. It will cost a lot of money, but LA Metro is bleeding money anyway from the lack of paying riders. Sometimes police enforcement has to come before social justice advocacy. And how much social justice is there in LA when poor people are forced to buy cars they can't afford because they don't feel safe on public transit?
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  #6196  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:05 PM
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I think the key as others have mentioned is to get white collar workers (aka "nonessential" workers) back on the trains. Unfortunately that's easier said than done since it would require them being physically in their offices.

But doing so would fill up the trains and make these unpleasant riders and experiences less visible. When trains are filled with normal people, you'll be less worried if these people act out, because ideally there will be good Samaritans to step in, and at minimum tons of witnesses. It's obviously going to be more pleasant to ride a train with 50 regular people and 2 drug users, rather than 5 regular people and 2 drug users. And if trains are filled with regular people, it becomes less likely these drug users choose trains as their locations.

Obviously we will also need cooperation from transit authorities and law enforcement to place priority on the ridership experience of paying riders over nonpaying riders using trains for illegal activities.
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  #6197  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:35 PM
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This opinion piece both hits & misses what should be today's priority. The writer places long term issues on the front burner while placing pressing issues of today on the back burner....

Quote:
Opinion: L.A.’s half-empty, crime-ridden Metro trains don’t have to stay that way

By Ethan N. Elkind

It’s no secret that the pandemic devastated public transit systems across the country, and Los Angeles’ ever-expanding Metro Rail system is no exception. With many white-collar employees now working remotely for all or much of the week, ridership on the region’s subway and light-rail lines is still around just two-thirds of its pre-COVID peak. The situation is even worse for systems such as Bay Area Rapid Transit, or BART, which is overly reliant on the office workers and employers who have largely abandoned downtown San Francisco.

To survive and thrive over the long run, however, Metro needs to build on these strengths and abandon business as usual. The best recipe for long-term success — one we’ve seen in successful cities across the world from Milan to Busan — is to allow more apartment buildings, offices and mixed-use projects to be built within walking distance of the stations. Beyond keeping Metro Rail viable, more such walkable neighborhoods will provide environmental, economic and quality-of-life benefits for their residents.

As Metro seeks to build expensive yet critical additions to its existing rail network, such as the Purple Line extension along Wilshire Boulevard to Westwood and beyond, state leaders could also help the agency save money by giving it master permitting authority over construction and streamlined environmental review, as is done in Paris, Madrid and other successful, transit-rich cities. Otherwise, projects often exceed budgets and blow deadlines due to endless concessions to hyperlocal interests, lawsuits and byzantine bureaucracy.

To lure riders back in the short term, Metro will have to address the crime and safety concerns of riders, which reflect broader economic and social challenges as well as the dearth of riders. Since lack of housing supply and consequently high rents are the chief cause of homelessness, state and local policymakers can help Metro contribute to the long-term solution by facilitating more apartments near stations, which will have the added benefit of encouraging more ridership.
^ Some of the key homelessness affecting the MTA...its trains, subways & buses...may have far more to do with politics, including law enforcement & the judicial system, than it does with affordability per se.
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  #6198  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2023, 4:29 AM
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L.A.’s half-empty, crime-ridden Metro trains don’t have to stay that way

Ethan Elkind
Los Angeles Times
March 17, 2023

It’s no secret that the pandemic devastated public transit systems across the country, and Los Angeles’ ever-expanding Metro Rail system is no exception. With many white-collar employees now working remotely for all or much of the week, ridership on the region’s subway and light-rail lines is still around just two-thirds of its pre-COVID peak. The situation is even worse for systems such as Bay Area Rapid Transit, or BART, which is overly reliant on the office workers and employers who have largely abandoned downtown San Francisco.

But therein lies the key to Metro Rail’s long-term recovery. Originally conceived in the 1970s as a BART-like system primarily serving downtown employers and commuters, Metro Rail has since sprawled to the far reaches of Los Angeles County. At the same time, downtown L.A. has become a residential and entertainment destination, not just an employment center. As a result, the current rail network serves a variety of riders heading to many destinations for a range of reasons. That helps explain why, for the first time since the federal government began keeping records two decades ago, Metro Rail is now serving more people than its Bay Area counterpart.

To survive and thrive over the long run, however, Metro needs to build on these strengths and abandon business as usual. The best recipe for long-term success — one we’ve seen in thriving cities across the world from Milan to Busan — is to allow more apartment buildings, offices and mixed-use projects to be built within walking distance of the stations. Beyond keeping Metro Rail viable, more such walkable neighborhoods will provide environmental, economic and quality-of-life benefits for their residents.

Yet it’s local governments, not Metro, that control what’s built around the rail stations. And too often, city leaders are captured by well-heeled homeowners who reflexively object to new development, particularly high-density housing.

Even when cities do approve dense development near Metro Rail stops, they often include so much parking as to make a mockery of the transit-friendly location. Take the office project that the L.A. City Council just approved at Sunset and Wilcox in Hollywood. Sure, it’s a 15-story tower just a short walk from the Red Line. But with enough spaces for 1,179 private automobiles, it’s basically a parking garage with a few offices on top.

L.A. and other local governments should be required to loosen development and zoning restrictions near rail stops, eliminating nitpicky requirements and endless hearings. With the region experiencing a major housing shortfall and sky-high prices that have pushed lower-income residents to other regions and states or, in too many cases, the streets, allowing more dense, accessible housing is a humanitarian need as much as a transit one. With Metro and other transit agencies facing a “fiscal cliff” as federal COVID aid expires and the ridership slump lingers, state leaders could make loosened land-use requirements part of any eventual rescue package.

As Metro seeks to build expensive yet critical additions to its existing rail network, such as the Purple Line extension along Wilshire Boulevard to Westwood and beyond, state leaders could also help the agency save money by giving it master permitting authority over construction and streamlined environmental review, as is done in Paris, Madrid and other successful, transit-rich cities. Otherwise, projects often exceed budgets and blow deadlines due to endless concessions to hyperlocal interests, lawsuits and byzantine bureaucracy. It’s a microcosm of why the United States is now among the worst of the world’s advanced economies when it comes to building large-scale transit projects.

Also in the interest of efficiency, Metro should build more bus rapid transit using dedicated lanes instead of new rail routes, especially for outlying communities that are not densely populated enough to justify expensive rail construction. Dedicated bus lanes can move people as quickly as trains at a small fraction of the cost.

To lure riders back in the short term, Metro will have to address the crime and safety concerns of riders, which reflect broader economic and social challenges as well as the dearth of riders. Since lack of housing supply and consequently high rents are the chief cause of homelessness, state and local policymakers can help Metro contribute to the long-term solution by facilitating more apartments near stations, which will have the added benefit of encouraging more ridership.

Four decades after it launched, L.A. Metro Rail is facing its biggest challenges. Failure to meet them will mean a downward spiral of decreasing service and disappearing ridership as well as a betrayal of the vision sold to voters. But if more people can live, recreate, shop and work near Metro stations, the system can achieve long-term stability, provide a return on the region’s multibillion-dollar investment and fulfill the promise of rail in Los Angeles.
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  #6199  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2023, 6:55 AM
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There are more immediate solutions such as fare enforcement and gated entries. I can’t tell how successful the welcome ambassadors have been, but have them do fare enforcements as well. The guy sleeping in his own filth and running up and down the aisles yelling at people didn’t pay for his ticket. Prevent him from getting on the train in the first place with more restrictive turnstiles and gates. This is such low hanging fruit to overhaul the whole metro system with more restrictive technology and human enforcement. This, you can see improvements within a year. Building a ridership through high density zoning takes decades.
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  #6200  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2023, 6:23 PM
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How did New York clean up its subways, that had declined to such levels of filth and poor security in the 1970s and 1980s? Perhaps the New York experience could offer some solutions.

My cousin is going to LA in the next two weeks. What is being discussed here suggests that LA trains are not safe for visitors. This is poor advertising for the city in general, not to just potential LA transit riders.

While many suggest that trains enable the reduction of staffing, it is clear that security needs to be improved. Druggies and psychos need to be kicked out of system and need to be kept out if they are being disruptive. This needs to be a priority. Keeping the system clean also needs to be a priority.

Also, I recently watched a video on rail service in Ukraine. Despite being a war zone, the priority is to provide a clean, safe environment for passengers. Imagine that.
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