NEW YORK | The Spiral (509 W. 34th) | 1,041 FT | 66 FLOORS

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314

No, it is not enticing enough to get a site up, it is a simple marketing ploy.

The idea that this site will rise 1,800' is ludicrous. It only has 1.2 MSF -- less than Nordstrom Tower, more than One57, but likely not enough to justify anything above 1,200'. If that.

There is the possibility that whoever aquires Rosenthal's 1.2msf site will also snatch up Sherwood's 2.5msf site too. That would result in a very large tower of 3.7 msf, more than enough to get a mixed use supertall to 1,800ft.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

There is the possibility that whoever aquires Rosenthal's 1.2msf site will also snatch up Sherwood's 2.5msf site too. That would result in a very large tower of 3.7 msf, more than enough to get a mixed use supertall to 1,800ft.

Forget 1.2 million ft., you don't even need 500,000 ft.

It's in the design/economics. 111 W. 57th will be 1,400 ft and is not even close to 500,000 square feet. I think it's only 300,000 square feet, and that's including an existing building.

[ablerock]

Originally Posted by NYguy

No, the site is being marketed to people interested in building a skyscraper that will be the tallest in the City, or the hemisphere, making it one of the tallest in the world.

Who are some of the development players in NYC who could handle this size of project right now? The ones I'm aware of all have a lot on their plates right now. Any guesses who might bite? Maybe an international firm?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314

No, it is not enticing enough to get a site up, it is a simple marketing ploy.

The idea that this site will rise 1,800' is ludicrous. It only has 1.2 MSF -- less than Nordstrom Tower, more than One57, but likely not enough to justify anything above 1,200'. If that.

They are very specific in the breakdown of the site. It is an attractive carrot to developers around the world who would love to build such a tower in Manhattan. And obviously it is marketing. The site is for sale afterall.

Originally Posted by ablerock

Who are some of the development players in NYC who could handle this size of project right now? The ones I'm aware of all have a lot on their plates right now. Any guesses who might bite? Maybe an international firm?

Not all developers in New York are building right now. There is a lot of activity, sure, but not everyone is in on the game, especially in the Hudson Yards, where Related is basically swallowing everything it can. But the way they are marketing this site in particular, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see some Asian or Middle Eastern investors ultimately end up here. New York developers aren't necessarily concerned with building the "tallest" anything. There's this guy by the name of Trump who used to take a shot at it, but he hasn't built a New York skyscraper in years.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/140119991

...the site sits directly next to another similarly sized piece of land owned by Sherwood Equities, which for years has planned to develop a single super-tower on the two parcels in partnership with the Rosenthals. Now that the Rosenthals are selling, Ryan Nelson (no relation to James), a senior vice president at Sherwood Equities who manages the company's acquisitions and sales, said it, too, will consider selling its parcel to either the buyer of the Rosenthal land or another purchaser.

For now, Mr. Knakal and James Nelson are focused on selling just the Rosenthals' half of the land, which could trade for more than $200 million and can host up to 1.2 million square feet of development as well as reach 1,800 feet in height.

"We're offering the site up to the whole world to tell us what they want to do," James Nelson said. "It's one of the highest zoned sites in the city and it affords a host of possibilities, from building one big building to two or more buildings that include residential, hotel, office and retail space."

Ryan Nelson said that the two sites together, however, would appeal to major developers who want to have a presence in the Hudson Yards neighborhood, where millions of square feet of development are either underway or in the planning. "Together these sites are one of the best commercial development parcels in the area," he said.

Sherwood Equities is not actively marketing its site, but is likely to keep tabs on the sale of the Rosenthal site in the case that a buyer there would want to put together the whole block.

[ILNY]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They are very specific in the breakdown of the site. It is an attractive carrot to developers around the world who would love to build such a tower in Manhattan. And obviously it is marketing. The site is for sale afterall.

Will they sell the site to any developer or just to the ones who want to build supertall tower?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by ILNY

Will they sell the site to any developer or just to the ones who want to build supertall tower?

It's all about the money. There was always going to be interest in the site no matter what, but by aggressively pitching this site for the imagined tower, the net is being cast further. I imagine the deep pockets with the desire and ability to build such a tower would probably make the best offer.


http://commercialobserver.com/2014/0...-hudson-yards/

Massey Knakal is exclusively marketing the sale of a development site that it believes could spawn what the firm has dubbed “The Hudson Spire,” an 1,800 foot super-skyscraper.

“The interest has been overwhelming,” Bob Knakal, the firm’s chairman, said. “We’ve had more confidentiality agreements in two days than I can ever remember.”

Mr. Knakal said all he needs is a developer looking to cash in on the excitement if not near hysteria that’s emanating from the west side.

“It could be a major New York developer already in Hudson Yards, or someone who wants to be there,” he said, “Or a foreign buyer who wants to build the tallest building in New York… who wants to make a real splash with the building.”

[ILNY]

If 1600-1800 ft tower get build here, which I hope it will, then this will thwart observation deck plans for reduced height HY North Tower. I don't think many people, after seeing the city from 1800 ft, would go across the street and spend another $30-40 just to see it again from 600 ft lower.

[chris08876]

The Royal Sheik's should take advantage of this opportunity. They tend to have a good eye when it comes to building the tallest or largest "anything".

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ILNY

If 1600-1800 ft tower get build here, which I hope it will, then this will thwart observation deck plans for reduced height HY North Tower. I don't think many people, after seeing the city from 1800 ft, would go across the street and spend another $30-40 just to see it again from 600 ft lower.

I don't see why it would affect an observation deck at HY North.

You don't need the tallest building around to have an observation deck (see 30 Rock, which is one of the most popular decks on earth), and this "Hudson Spire" site or whatever it's named will probably be hotel-residential, and therefore no public observation deck.

[NYguy]

^ That's correct. Also, the Hudson Yards deck would continue to be the highest outdoor observation deck, while at the same time significantly lower than a potential deck here. It would really be no different than having two different decks in the same building. They could get approval for an observation deck here. Extell was reportedly considering adding a deck to the Nordstrom tower, but I don't think they will.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^Extell was reportedly considering adding a deck to the Nordstrom tower, but I don't think they will.

Yeah, residential towers almost never have observation decks.

I would be really surprised if any of these new residential supertalls had an observation deck. $100 million apartments and observation decks don't really go together, especially if you're talking super-skinny towers that have very limited elevator space.

[Zapatan]

As a rule of thumb NY buildings generally end up 1-200 feet shorter than originally announced which would put this thing at 1600 to the spire, I think that's definitely possible.

[Hudson11]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

As a rule of thumb NY buildings generally end up 1-200 feet shorter than originally announced which would put this thing at 1600 to the spire, I think that's definitely possible.

rule of thumb? The only buildings which received haircuts recently were office towers.

[ILNY]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

The only buildings which received haircuts recently were office towers.

Not really, 225W and TV will be residential.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by ILNY

Not really, 225W and TV will be residential.

That wasn't really a height cut though - the 1,423 option was always on the table - it's not like TV where some looney tunes whined until they got a height cut.

[Hudson11]

like I said, recently.
225 w 57th was originally slated to be 1250ft.
Tower Verre was cut 200ft by the Planning Commission back in 2009.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, residential towers almost never have observation decks.

I would be really surprised if any of these new residential supertalls had an observation deck. $100 million apartments and observation decks don't really go together, especially if you're talking super-skinny towers that have very limited elevator space.

It's all about the money. Observation decks are real money makers in the city, and if Barnett could conceive of a way to get one built without taking anything away from the high end nature of the condos, he would do it. There will be no shortage of people to draw from, including from the Nordstrom below. But like I said, I don't think he will do it. Over here, in the Hudson Yards, its a new ballgame really.

Originally Posted by Hudson11

like I said, recently.
225 w 57th was originally slated to be 1250ft.
Tower Verre was cut 200ft by the Planning Commission back in 2009.

If we wanna get picky, it was originally planned to be much lower than that, in the 700 ft range originally.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by NYguy

It's all about the money. Observation decks are real money makers in the city, and if Barnett could conceive of a way to get one built without taking anything away from the high end nature of the condos, he would do it. There will be no shortage of people to draw from, including from the Nordstrom below. But like I said, I don't think he will do it. Over here, in the Hudson Yards, its a new ballgame really.

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that it would be very difficult for an observation tower for a few reasons:

- You need dedicated elevators for the deck, which will be hard to fit in a narrow core
- You need queuing space on the lower floors plus a large amount of space on the deck, which will be limited due to the towers relatively narrow width.
- Evidently there is already an observation deck or lounge or what have you in the building for residents. An observation deck would mean yet another floor would be lost, another floor that could support a 90-100 million dollar condo.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that it would be very difficult for an observation tower for a few reasons:

- You need dedicated elevators for the deck, which will be hard to fit in a narrow core
- You need queuing space on the lower floors plus a large amount of space on the deck, which will be limited due to the towers relatively narrow width.
- Evidently there is already an observation deck or lounge or what have you in the building for residents. An observation deck would mean yet another floor would be lost, another floor that could support a 90-100 million dollar condo.

I'm not sure which tower you are referring to. But it could happen at either tower. It would even be better to have an elevator on the outside, similar to what you see with the new Comcast tower in Philly. The bottom line is if the developer wants to make it happen, it could happen. It's all about the money, which is a powerful motivator. Whatever potential offsets could be had from the residential sales (assuming there are) would more than be offset by the potential gold mine of an observation deck - the gift that keeps on giving. But I'm sure in either case, it would be looked at and studied. Gary Barnett hadn't planned on it, and was only thinking about it because of the potential windfall. Here in the Hudson Yards though, a tower could be designed with that in mind. The most exclusive units could even be above such a deck (hotel/deck/condos). But its all just speculation at this point.

[nyc15]

i think that 1800ft is the roof height , imagine that we added a spire same height of one world trade center spire ,it will make hudson spire a 2208 ft tower