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  #321  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2017, 7:18 PM
Nova08 Nova08 is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Most office projects, even in Philadelphia, include parking. Transit accessibility to this site in particular isn't THAT good. Yes, the Riverline runs right by here, but then you have to live along the Riverline.

The closest PATCO stop is at City Hall which is what? 6-7 blocks away?

This site isn't really the same as building in Center City, or next to 30th Street Station, which literally have dozens of rail lines, subways, trolleys, buses, etc.

I'm also under the impression that this site is in a flood plain, which makes underground parking very, very costly... and likely too costly for a Camden site at the moment. Camden needs more demand first in order to push for higher quality urban designs.
I know we are talking about Camden here, so that obviously cannot be minimized. But to say this site isn't that accessible to transit is misguided. This part of Camden is a 11 minute walk to the nearest Patco stop with very frequent service to both Philly and Jersey suburbs and has light rail on it's doorstep. Plenty of people walk from Patco 16th and Locust to 14-23rd and Market. This location has good transit options. But because it's Camden, it will be a process for a large number of people to commute using public transportation.
     
     
  #322  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Nova08 View Post
This part of Camden is a 11 minute walk to the nearest Patco stop with very frequent service to both Philly and Jersey suburbs and has light rail on it's doorstep.
Uh, yeah... not to diss Camden, and please don't take this the wrong way, but would you really want to take that 11 minute walk twice a day?
     
     
  #323  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2017, 3:58 AM
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Uh, yeah... not to diss Camden, and please don't take this the wrong way, but would you really want to take that 11 minute walk twice a day?
That was my point. The location does not lack transit options. The location suffers from some crime issues and likely some perception issues.
     
     
  #324  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 12:58 PM
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Yes, I'm coming back to this. I don't care if it is Camden. This compound is better suited for downtown Dayton than something built across the river from one of the largest cities in the country and connected by two rail lines and a bus terminal.

How/why could you possibly need this much parking? There's more square footage for parking than square feet of office space. Nuts.

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  #325  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 2:07 PM
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[QUOTE=PHL10;8002756]Yes, I'm coming back to this. I don't care if it is Camden. This compound is better suited for downtown Dayton than something built across the river from one of the largest cities in the country and connected by two rail lines and a bus terminal.

How/why could you possibly need this much parking? There's more square footage for parking than square feet of office space. Nuts.


You have to remember ...... it's Camden . :kook:
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  #326  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 3:11 PM
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My hunch is, with the structured parking, you're looking at the combined parking for American Water and the Hilton Garden Inn.

Also recall the hotel has to go on one of those lots ... there's a good chance it's wrapping around one of the garages, Texas doughnut-style. Which would of course necessitate building the garage first.
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  #327  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
How/why could you possibly need this much parking? There's more square footage for parking than square feet of office space. Nuts.
Most everyone who works here will drive in from the suburbs. Cars take up more space than people.

Not saying I like this, but it is the reality of the situation. If Camden ever manages to become a flourishing city the garages will be torn down to make room for something more profitable.
     
     
  #328  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
Most everyone who works here will drive in from the suburbs.
Well, they certainly will if you build a 5,000 space parking structure next to their office.

Why is PATCO filled with commuters going to Philadelphia? They all live in those same suburbs. To answer my own question, one of those reasons is that parking isn't provided by their employer and would cost them at least $200/month to park in a private lot.
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  #329  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nova08 View Post
That was my point. The location does not lack transit options. The location suffers from some crime issues and likely some perception issues.
I did the walk down Market Street to PATCO several times a week for 2 years. An 11 minute walk on the lunar surface would be more enjoyable than the barren hellscape that is Market Street in Camden.
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  #330  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
Well, they certainly will if you build a 5,000 space parking structure next to their office.

Why is PATCO filled with commuters going to Philadelphia? They all live in those same suburbs. To answer my own question, one of those reasons is that parking isn't provided by their employer and would cost them at least $200/month to park in a private lot.
This garage is also supposed to compensate for the lost spaces used by Rutgers, BB&T Center, and the aquarium.
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  #331  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 11:34 PM
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It does make sense. Camden could not possibly have a worse reputation, and that short walk will show it. And there is what Parkway said, where it took parking away from Rutgers, the BB&T Center, and Adventure Aquarium. I was talking to my aunt recently, who was wary about taking the grandkids to the Aquarium simply because it was in Camden. I told her that the waterfront is fine. Of course, if you live in PA then the Riverlink Ferry is the best way to get to the Aquarium. Still, having the garages coupled with the new development should be reassuring to those who are not comfortable with Camden in general.
     
     
  #332  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
I did the walk down Market Street to PATCO several times a week for 2 years. An 11 minute walk on the lunar surface would be more enjoyable than the barren hellscape that is Market Street in Camden.
I've worked in Camden for almost 10 years. I'm on Market Street. The walk is literally not bad in the remotest sense. A decade ago? Sure, a little sketchy. Now? Not at all sketchy. Not wanting to walk down Market Street is like not wanting to walk down Girard in Fishtown. Literally no good reason that I can think of, other than the blistering cold high winds in winter.

You probably just haven't been there in years.
     
     
  #333  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus View Post
I've worked in Camden for almost 10 years. I'm on Market Street. The walk is literally not bad in the remotest sense. A decade ago? Sure, a little sketchy. Now? Not at all sketchy. Not wanting to walk down Market Street is like not wanting to walk down Girard in Fishtown. Literally no good reason that I can think of, other than the blistering cold high winds in winter.

You probably just haven't been there in years.
I just moved back to Philly from Camden this summer. It's not that it feels sketchy or dangerous. It just a hell scape of parking lots and blank walls. The walk itself on Market feels much longer than the same walk on Cooper. t least the old Hanks space has a juice and tea bar in it now.
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  #334  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
This garage is also supposed to compensate for the lost spaces used by Rutgers, BB&T Center, and the aquarium.
I don't doubt they are making that argument but reality says it's a bit ridiculous. How could this area survive losing even one or two surface lots without building two monstrous parking structures?

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  #335  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
I don't doubt they are making that argument but reality says it's a bit ridiculous. How could this area survive losing even one or two surface lots without building two monstrous parking structures?

Holy shit, that's a lot of surface lots. But they want something convenient to the new developments. In this location, at this time, I don't really have any problem with the garage. If all goes to plan, it will be surrounded by commercial and other uses.
     
     
  #336  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 7:34 PM
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The real problem with parking is that they built the BB&T Center assuming those lots would always be there to park cars on for shows. The place has 15,000 seats and holds more on the lawn.
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  #337  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2017, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
The real problem with parking is that they build the BB&T Center assuming those lots would always be there to park cars on for shows. The place has 15,000 seats and holds more on the lawn.
That's is true and not something I was thinking about.
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  #338  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2017, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus View Post
I've worked in Camden for almost 10 years. I'm on Market Street. The walk is literally not bad in the remotest sense. A decade ago? Sure, a little sketchy. Now? Not at all sketchy. Not wanting to walk down Market Street is like not wanting to walk down Girard in Fishtown....
Good analogoy. It’s not bad at all.

Regarding the garage, one can’t get away from the fact that more people will drive to work in Camden than in Philadelphia. In Camden Parking is cheap, and in Philadelphia there are way more rail lines. Building the garage now in anticipation of additional office space allows some of those empty lots to be absorbed without worrying about where to park the cars.
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  #339  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
Yes, but…..adding parking garage as a component to a residential project is one thing but I think by building a mega garage right behind the new office, presumably providing plentiful and free parking to the employees, won’t they just drive in and drive out? If that is how the site will function, out side of taxing purposes, this won’t be much of a boost to DT Camden in my view. Between PATCO and the Riverline alone, there are great transit options so I’m not sure whye the garage was necessary.

Why not let/force the employees to find their own parking then at least they may do the math if it’s cheaper/more efficient to commute via transit or car. The garage just destroys this whole process, no?
The bigger parking garage will have an office building on top of it. https://philly.curbed.com/2017/3/17/...tower-approved

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  #340  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 7:40 PM
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If Camden “hits” like they are hoping, are there lots right on the water to build on like the American Water building going up? I’d hope there is still a chance for taller, better towers down the line akin to the renders. Would be a nice view from the new Penn’s Landing Riverrfront park...
     
     
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