Winnipeg Construction X

[EdwardTH]

You guys think in other cities everyone just lives in their hometown forever? I crunched the numbers on interprovincial migration from Statscan quick, here's a ranking of which provinces are losing people to other provinces in 2018:

Prov Population Out migration %
SK 1163925 39771 3.42%
PE 152021 3941 2.59%
NL 528817 7987 1.51%
NB 759655 11462 1.51%
MB 1338109 19211 1.44%
AB 4286134 60,449 1.41%
NS 953869 13095 1.37%
BC 4817160 46919 0.97%
ON 14193384 52,972 0.37%
QC 8394034 26683 0.32%

Manitoba is pretty much right in the middle of the pack. This doesn't show the net migration, I think we lag behind a little in people coming in from other provinces. But we're not driving people away in droves. Everybody thinks their hometown is boring and wants to see what else is out there. I grew up in Brandon and very few of my friends still live there, but notably - half the ones who moved, moved to Winnipeg. My partner grew up in a mid-size Ontario city, neither her nor her 2 siblings live there anymore. All 3 of her cousins left their hometowns. There's about 1000 movies about an old group of friends who all moved away to different cities and then get back together, because that's what most people do, in most places. Grow up, go to school, move out, see the world, etc. The only uniquely Winnipeg thing about it is how we (or at least armorand) convince ourselves it's ONLY US and that this is a disaster and proof Winnipeg is the worst place on earth. If you ask me we need to be way more worried about that Winnipeg inferiority complex and the constant negativity it produces. I think that alone explains a lot of why those from other provinces, don't move here in any large numbers.

[BlubberMiley]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

You guys think in other cities everyone just lives in their hometown forever? I crunched the numbers on interprovincial migration from Statscan quick, here's a ranking of which provinces are losing people to other provinces in 2018:

Prov Population Out migration %
SK 1163925 39771 3.42%
PE 152021 3941 2.59%
NL 528817 7987 1.51%
NB 759655 11462 1.51%
MB 1338109 19211 1.44%
AB 4286134 60,449 1.41%
NS 953869 13095 1.37%
BC 4817160 46919 0.97%
ON 14193384 52,972 0.37%
QC 8394034 26683 0.32%

Manitoba is pretty much right in the middle of the pack. This doesn't show the net migration, I think we lag behind a little in people coming in from other provinces. But we're not driving people away in droves. Everybody thinks their hometown is boring and wants to see what else is out there. I grew up in Brandon and very few of my friends still live there, but notably - half the ones who moved, moved to Winnipeg. My partner grew up in a mid-size Ontario city, neither her nor her 2 siblings live there anymore. All 3 of her cousins left their hometowns. There's about 1000 movies about an old group of friends who all moved away to different cities and then get back together, because that's what most people do, in most places. Grow up, go to school, move out, see the world, etc. The only uniquely Winnipeg thing about it is how we (or at least armorand) convince ourselves it's ONLY US and that this is a disaster and proof Winnipeg is the worst place on earth. If you ask me we need to be way more worried about that Winnipeg inferiority complex and the constant negativity it produces. I think that alone explains a lot of why those from other provinces, don't move here in any large numbers.

Considering that statistic is from 2018, it may be somewhat misleading in regards to the amount of people from Manitoba who have left for other provinces during the last 15 years or so. Alberta was the main destination of people from Manitoba from the late 90s right up until 2015. Since then, the Oil and Gas industry has been in a recession.

If one were to look back at the provincial migration picture from 2000-15, it would give you a better idea of how many Manitobans left the province. I know that since the collapse of Oil prices, a good percentage of Manitobans living in Alberta have returned home.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I actually believe having The polo Park vicinity filed with more residential mid and hi-rises will also be good for Downtown.Some working there might prefer to live downtown and some vice versa. With close proximity, they each can have a benefit . Many will be close enough to use public transit or and economical ride share bill.
This will be great catalyst to kick start the stagnation and decreased population in the area and St James.
Added to that, more people, better transit scheduling, more entertainment opportunities, rest bars clubs..and yes...jobs...plus keeping people near the main shopping hub. Works for nearly all.For those it does not work for, well, we seldom shop or visit where u do.

Definitely agreed, it might even serve as an impetus to get rapid transit towards Polo going.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

You guys think in other cities everyone just lives in their hometown forever? I crunched the numbers on interprovincial migration from Statscan quick, here's a ranking of which provinces are losing people to other provinces in 2018:

Prov Population Out migration %
SK 1163925 39771 3.42%
PE 152021 3941 2.59%
NL 528817 7987 1.51%
NB 759655 11462 1.51%
MB 1338109 19211 1.44%
AB 4286134 60,449 1.41%
NS 953869 13095 1.37%
BC 4817160 46919 0.97%
ON 14193384 52,972 0.37%
QC 8394034 26683 0.32%

Manitoba is pretty much right in the middle of the pack. This doesn't show the net migration, I think we lag behind a little in people coming in from other provinces. But we're not driving people away in droves. Everybody thinks their hometown is boring and wants to see what else is out there. I grew up in Brandon and very few of my friends still live there, but notably - half the ones who moved, moved to Winnipeg. My partner grew up in a mid-size Ontario city, neither her nor her 2 siblings live there anymore. All 3 of her cousins left their hometowns. There's about 1000 movies about an old group of friends who all moved away to different cities and then get back together, because that's what most people do, in most places. Grow up, go to school, move out, see the world, etc. The only uniquely Winnipeg thing about it is how we (or at least armorand) convince ourselves it's ONLY US and that this is a disaster and proof Winnipeg is the worst place on earth. If you ask me we need to be way more worried about that Winnipeg inferiority complex and the constant negativity it produces. I think that alone explains a lot of why those from other provinces, don't move here in any large numbers.

Great post.

[plrh]

My experience seems to be the opposite of the trend, I know a lot of people in Winnipeg who are from southern Ontario or Alberta. Most of my neighbours come from outside Manitoba (or Canada). And I know a lot more people who were born and raised in Calgary than people who have moved to Calgary. I know it's an anecdote, but the point is that there are people who move here from other provinces - they do exist!

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

You guys think in other cities everyone just lives in their hometown forever? I crunched the numbers on interprovincial migration from Statscan quick, here's a ranking of which provinces are losing people to other provinces in 2018:

Prov Population Out migration %
SK 1163925 39771 3.42%
PE 152021 3941 2.59%
NL 528817 7987 1.51%
NB 759655 11462 1.51%
MB 1338109 19211 1.44%
AB 4286134 60,449 1.41%
NS 953869 13095 1.37%
BC 4817160 46919 0.97%
ON 14193384 52,972 0.37%
QC 8394034 26683 0.32%

Manitoba is pretty much right in the middle of the pack. This doesn't show the net migration, I think we lag behind a little in people coming in from other provinces. But we're not driving people away in droves. Everybody thinks their hometown is boring and wants to see what else is out there. I grew up in Brandon and very few of my friends still live there, but notably - half the ones who moved, moved to Winnipeg. My partner grew up in a mid-size Ontario city, neither her nor her 2 siblings live there anymore. All 3 of her cousins left their hometowns. There's about 1000 movies about an old group of friends who all moved away to different cities and then get back together, because that's what most people do, in most places. Grow up, go to school, move out, see the world, etc. The only uniquely Winnipeg thing about it is how we (or at least armorand) convince ourselves it's ONLY US and that this is a disaster and proof Winnipeg is the worst place on earth. If you ask me we need to be way more worried about that Winnipeg inferiority complex and the constant negativity it produces. I think that alone explains a lot of why those from other provinces, don't move here in any large numbers.

I think generally speaking people move from smaller urban centres to larger ones. I also feel that Canada is less nomadic in that sense than is the USA (in reference to the movies). It seems less people "go away to college" from large urban centres in Canada than you find in the States as well. Maybe that's just my perception.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

You guys think in other cities everyone just lives in their hometown forever? I crunched the numbers on interprovincial migration from Statscan quick, here's a ranking of which provinces are losing people to other provinces in 2018:

Prov Population Out migration %
SK 1163925 39771 3.42%
PE 152021 3941 2.59%
NL 528817 7987 1.51%
NB 759655 11462 1.51%
MB 1338109 19211 1.44%
AB 4286134 60,449 1.41%
NS 953869 13095 1.37%
BC 4817160 46919 0.97%
ON 14193384 52,972 0.37%
QC 8394034 26683 0.32%

Manitoba is pretty much right in the middle of the pack. This doesn't show the net migration, I think we lag behind a little in people coming in from other provinces. But we're not driving people away in droves. Everybody thinks their hometown is boring and wants to see what else is out there. I grew up in Brandon and very few of my friends still live there, but notably - half the ones who moved, moved to Winnipeg. My partner grew up in a mid-size Ontario city, neither her nor her 2 siblings live there anymore. All 3 of her cousins left their hometowns. There's about 1000 movies about an old group of friends who all moved away to different cities and then get back together, because that's what most people do, in most places. Grow up, go to school, move out, see the world, etc. The only uniquely Winnipeg thing about it is how we (or at least armorand) convince ourselves it's ONLY US and that this is a disaster and proof Winnipeg is the worst place on earth. If you ask me we need to be way more worried about that Winnipeg inferiority complex and the constant negativity it produces. I think that alone explains a lot of why those from other provinces, don't move here in any large numbers.

EXCELLENT post! I dearly wish the "it's only us" (I.O.U.?) crowd would take some of this information to heart and stop with the hair shirt routine long enough to realize there's a lot to like about the city.

[bomberjet]

It's pretty normal for people to move around all over the place. In my worklife, immediately in my office, there are people literally from every province who have moved to other provinces. Back and forth. And migrated from around the world.

Personal life, I've had a few family members move and then return to Manitoba. Only 1 person still out of province.

School life is also all over the place. When you meet 1000's of people, there's bound to be people who are literally allover the world right now.

[Authentic_City]

Interprovincial migration patterns have been pretty consistent for decades. The Atlantic provinces, Quebec, MB, and SK have tended to be net negative (losing more people to other provinces) while BC, ON, and AB have been traditionally net positive (gaining more people from other provinces). Interprovincial migration is only one component of population growth. MB has done well overall by balancing interprovincial flows with international immigration.

I think it's good for young people to move away and try living somewhere else. My friend's 20 year old daughter just moved back from Vancouver. She loved the west coast, but found it just too expensive. Maybe it gives her a better appreciation for Winnipeg? I moved away when I was young too, and then I came back later in life. Cities like Calgary and Van are filled with people who moved from somewhere else. I think it tends to foster a culture where people like to talk trash about where they came from. It's human nature to emphasize the negatives about where you came from so you can feel good about your decision, I think.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Interprovincial migration patterns have been pretty consistent for decades. The Atlantic provinces, Quebec, MB, and SK have tended to be net negative (losing more people to other provinces) while BC, ON, and AB have been traditionally net positive (gaining more people from other provinces). Interprovincial migration is only one component of population growth. MB has done well overall by balancing interprovincial flows with international immigration.

I think it's good for young people to move away and try living somewhere else. My friend's 20 year old daughter just moved back from Vancouver. She loved the west coast, but found it just too expensive. Maybe it gives her a better appreciation for Winnipeg? I moved away when I was young too, and then I came back later in life. Cities like Calgary and Van are filled with people who moved from somewhere else. I think it tends to foster a culture where people like to talk trash about where they came from. It's human nature to emphasize the negatives about where you came from so you can feel good about your decision, I think.

Interesting point you raise re: BC. Virtually no one among the people I know who moved there ended up staying even though a good number moved to the Lower Mainland in their 20s. It was a deadly combo of somewhat low salaries + exorbitant cost of living that did them in. The ones who stayed are mostly in the interior of the province.

By contrast, a lot of the Alberta bound crowd ended up settling down. I suppose it's a bit more lucrative to begin with, and the cost of living is a little easier to handle. I mean, strictly from a dollars and cents point of view it probably cost me a fair bundle to move back to Manitoba after graduating from the U of Alberta in 2005, but I don't regret my choice.

[Authentic_City]

True, most of the folks I know who moved away and settled down ended up in smaller centres outside of the lower mainland in BC (in the Interior or on the Island) or in various places in AB. I also know some folks who moved away and settled in Nova Scotia. But on the other hand, I work with folks who relocated to Winnipeg from AB, SK, ON and elsewhere.

[Winnipeg Grump]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

True, most of the folks I know who moved away and settled down ended up in smaller centres outside of the lower mainland in BC (in the Interior or on the Island) or in various places in AB. I also know some folks who moved away and settled in Nova Scotia. But on the other hand, I work with folks who relocated to Winnipeg from AB, SK, ON and elsewhere.

People moving around is a good thing, even if it is just for a while before you end up coming home. Ya gotta broaden that perspective on how the rest of the world runs.

[robertocarlos]

They should have moved the airport outside of Winnipeg when they had the chance. Then they should have made the PP area the new downtown with a stadium, arena, and high density housing.

[trueviking]

net provincial migration, Manitoba has had some really really bad years over the last few.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

net provincial migration, Manitoba has had some really really bad years over the last few.

Which is ironic given that there is no boom happening out west the way there was in the early/mid 2000s to draw people out that way.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

They should have moved the airport outside of Winnipeg when they had the chance. Then they should have made the PP area the new downtown with a stadium, arena, and high density housing.

Can you give an example of a city where they built a stadium-anchored "alternate downtown", and what happened to the prior downtown?

I'm open to being convinced but this sounds like the kind of plan that would have turned our existing downtown into a completely blighted hellscape

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

Can you give an example of a city where they built a stadium-anchored "alternate downtown", and what happened to the prior downtown?

I'm open to being convinced but this sounds like the kind of plan that would have turned our existing downtown into a completely blighted hellscape

Those schemes to create an arena/stadium-based entertainment district or whatever from scratch, pretty much never pan out. Just ask Glendale. However putting an arena into an existing downtown that already has a wide variety of different land uses going on to complement each other, that's a different story. Considering the arena/Jets has obviously been a hugely successful catalyst for downtown with Chipman putting hundreds of millions of $ of development around it I'm surprised anyone would have wanted the arena at Polo.

[BlubberMiley]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

Can you give an example of a city where they built a stadium-anchored "alternate downtown", and what happened to the prior downtown?

Kanata, Ontario?
Sunrise, Florida?
Richfield, Ohio?
Landover, Maryland?
East Rutherford, New Jersey?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by BlubberMiley

Kanata, Ontario?
Sunrise, Florida?
Richfield, Ohio?
Landover, Maryland?
East Rutherford, New Jersey?

I used to live in Kanata. There's nothing about that arena that's anywhere near "downtown". For one thing, Kanata doesn't even have a downtown. For another, they decided to build one along the Queensway but I wouldn't call it any sort of core in the traditional sense. There's nothing special about it at all. It's just a quasi-mall with a few apartment buildings nearby. It's also nowhere near the arena and it was built years after the arena went in.

They should have moved the airport outside of Winnipeg when they had the chance. Then they should have made the PP area the new downtown with a stadium, arena, and high density housing.

That just makes absolutely no sense at all.
Firstly, the airport was built long before there was any real development in the area. The first landing strip went in somewhere in 1919. It simply grew from then on. By the time it was established as the main airport in the region, tall buildings hadn't even become a thing and there was no reason to consider flight paths and the like. That aside (and sure, maybe I'm wrong) we already have a "new" downtown. The original city center ran along Main. It moved to Portage when Hudson's Bay opened up and thanks to the demolitions of the 50's and 60's, a "new" downtown was created. That's why the Exchange exists. Otherwise it would have all been bulldozed decades ago.

But okay, let's say we created a new business core at Polo Park. What's the point of it? The western quadrant of the city hasn't really expanded in years (only new development came along in the past decade) so the traffic is a direct result of Polo Park's development. It's not a particularly good spot for a central business core anyway. For one thing, most of the population lives to the east of Polo Park and far away. For another, there's only two major arteries that can serve the area (being Route 90 and Portage) Route 90 is only as busy as it is because of the airport and Polo Park. Finally, what's the benefit of having a downtown core to expand infrastructure for when the ones we already have aren't fully developed?

[Hecate]

I think residential at polo is dumb. It’s already one of the worst areas in the city for traffic adding residents will just make it worse.