PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[therealdawk]

Cool pic. Just to our left of what I believe is The Murano, there appears to be a building with a crane on the top. What is that?

[TK2001]

2222 Market, you can see the steel structure as well

[MadhattersLT]

Hate to be that guy if it was already discussed but i noticed drilling equipment working in the lot next to the parking garage of the Edgewater... any ideas what that is?

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You’re not wrong. Downtown Crossing area in Boston has many of the same problems as Market East, BUT it’s much nicer and much more built up.

Banana Republic and Club Monaco closed solely over rent disputes with their respective landlords. Banana Republic is looking for new digs in Center City, but I’m not sure Club Monaco is.

Cole Haan closed solely due to the pandemic/looting and lack of traffic during that time.

And what is the deal with Zara? Kinda ridiculous that Philadelphia does not have a downtown Zara.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

And what is the deal with Zara? Kinda ridiculous that Philadelphia does not have a downtown Zara.

There was one on 1700 Walnut but that closed years ago.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by MadhattersLT

Hate to be that guy if it was already discussed but i noticed drilling equipment working in the lot next to the parking garage of the Edgewater... any ideas what that is?

See the lowrise thread.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I'm not sure why we're even talking about demolishing the Fashion District. Is it perfect? No, but it's a hell of a lot better than what was there. Plus, the average tourist won't know any different and would ACTUALLY like this mall. It even meets the street much better than what was there. The food scene is decent with City Winery, Hoots Wings, and your typical suburban mall stuff. It has an AMC Theater, Candytopia, Wonderspaces and a Round One.

Look at the shopping line up - Armani Exchange, Aerie, Aeropostale, American Eagle, Burlington, Columbia, DSW, Eddie Bauer, Express, Forever 21, Francesca's, Gamestop, Guess, H&M, Hollister, Journey's, Kate Spade, Levi's, Lids, Nike, Pandora, Primark, Sephora, Spencer's, Sunglass Hut, Ulta Beauty and Zumiez with still more room to add more. It not only fills a retail void that Center City was missing with a lot of these stores, OR stores that are no longer available on Chestnut or Walnut (American Eagle, Guess, Forever 21, Kate Spade, Ulta all closed...), but it also reads like a suburban mall dream playbook. I know the idea of suburbs gets under most people's skin on this forum, but what do you expect? This is EXACTLY the type of retail that should be at Market East. Almost every tourist to Philadelphia IF NOT EVERY tourist in Philadelphia will filter through this area. MOST of those tourists are suburbanites.

Fashion District is HARDLY the thing holding Market East back, and it's certainly improved by leaps and bounds. The city needs to do a better job of pushing the seedy characters and the homeless along. This area has a Macy's, TJ Maxx, Five Below, Ross, Marshall's, the Fashion District, the Convention Center, Reading Terminal Market, the Declaration House, and sits between Old City and the Parkway - probably two of the most visited areas in Philadelphia. We need the highrise on the 13th and Market lot to get off of the ground, we need the entire south half of the 1000 block of Market to be demolished and replaced with one or two highrises. We need the buildings between Ludlow, 10th and Market to be demolished (obviously keeping the historic church) and replaced with a highrise. We need that crumby Rite Aid and the old Burger King to be demolished and replaced with a new highrise on the 700 block (and some of those other buildings on the south end need some TLC, we need the parking garage Brandywine now owns demolished and replaced with a highrise and MOST IMPORTANTLY, we need the 800 block of market gaping Disney Hole eyesore to be filled in. I'm now in full support of the Sixers building their stadium here with two highrises that front Market Street just like TD Garden in Boston. Once all these lots fill in, we should absolutely be pulling for stores like a Disney Store, Legoland, Hershey's Chocolate World, and other touristy things.

Excellent take, Summers.

I see nothing wrong with the Gallery ... sorry the Fashion District. I feel like the bad feelings toward that place is hold-over disdain for what the gallery was coupled with what is perceived as a missed opportunity. I think the "theme" shift is what the missed opportunity was. Putting super high-end outlets in that space would have been MONEY. Those places - like Woodbury Commons in Upstate NY - bring people in from all over. THAT would have created a destination shopping draw that would have been amazing. For whatever reason, that didn't happen. Whatever. What is there is fine, if not really nice. Controlling the punks that terrorize that place would be a nice development. Covid didn't help obviously. But Preit is losing their SHIRTS on that property. There isn't going to be more investment in that place. What's there is fine. And if they announced a 25 story overbuild on the Gallery, none of us would be complaining about the Gallery....sorry, the Fashion District.

Across the street, that block is a disaster. It's hard to imagine that it has been able to continue that way given the massive amounts of investment flowing into Market East. The Robinson building would be a loss, but that building is just too crazy to work with. The homeless problem along that corridor is an issue that will continue to be challenging. The concentration of methadone and shelters in Market East is an issue that will continue to trouble that stretch. The homeless undertand that tourists represent their best shot at "compassionate donations" so they're there for the long haul, unfortunately.

Removing the blight that exists on the block, block and a half of the South side of Market between 9th and 11th would complete a total remake of East Market Street that would provide the bedrock for larger projects like Disney and 13th street.

(Goldenberg has already basically told Philly to suck eggs so I have no real hope to see activity there in my lifetime. But maybe some project may shake him loose.)

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I see nothing wrong with the Gallery ... sorry the Fashion District. I feel like the bad feelings toward that place is hold-over disdain for what the gallery was coupled with what is perceived as a missed opportunity. I think the "theme" shift is what the missed opportunity was. Putting super high-end outlets in that space would have been MONEY. Those places - like Woodbury Commons in Upstate NY - bring people in from all over. THAT would have created a destination shopping draw that would have been amazing. For whatever reason, that didn't happen.

This is a weird take on what 'should have been'. They tried that and it failed. And they stuck with it for too long and it prevented them from pivoting to what it always should have been...the landing place for Philly's high end big box stores (of which it has none), like the Container Store, World Market, Bed Bath Beyond, etc.

I've said it like 20 times as someone who has worked in HQ for multiple high end brands owned by the biggest European fashion conglomerates. The off price space is over saturated and most brands are pulling back from it as a strategy because it has brand diminishing impacts and is not as profitable as it once was. There are only about 3 Outlet Centers in the country that function on the scale of Woodbury when there are 100s of Outlet Centers in total. The magic that makes Woodbury a thing is that it is 1 hour from the largest tourist destination in our country. Woodbury doesn't post the revenue that it posts because of a bunch of high end tourists and locals going in to buy one or two hand bags. It posts that revenue (dirty secret of the outlet business) because it caters to grey market buyers who come in with suitcases and fill them with 100s of bags at a time. One of the companies I worked for put a "limit" on purchases at Woodbury of 100 units. Imagine going into an outlet and buying 100 units. This is not a normal retail buyer. These people go back to their native countries, on one of the 100s of international flights that come in and out of JFK and Newark each week and sell those bags at a profit.

Philly doesn't have the international presence or tourism to support anything resembling a Woodbury. The only other outlet center in the country that compares to Woodbury is Cabazon in Southern California...which again, is ideally situated to take advantage of international traffic.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

And what is the deal with Zara? Kinda ridiculous that Philadelphia does not have a downtown Zara.

Agreed. Ridiculous. Philly should have one. Zara on Walnut closed I believe the year before the pandemic. I remember see it was a rent dispute with the landlord as well. Lease term was coming to an end and the landlord was looking for much more in rent for a renewed term.

It's absurd, but most of the problems with Walnut (even before the pandemic) stems to greedy landlords. The next problem was the pandemic and the looting which was the final nail in the coffin for some of these stores.

Last I saw, Zara was looking to open in the Fashion District. Not sure whatever became of that, but they would be a great store for the Fashion District or Chestnut Street.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by TK2001

Philadelphia skyline from the Commodore Barry Bridge by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Epic photo! Thank you for sharing

[Nova08]

Exclusive: GSK moving out of Philadelphia Navy Yard to smaller space at FMC Tower
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-to-small.html

They stay in Philly and it sounds like a broad corporate plan than something with the Philadelphia operation. But that's a big decrease in space and a big exit for the NY. The NY building is a nice but not one you can easily lease by floor. You need a company who wants that much space.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Exclusive: GSK moving out of Philadelphia Navy Yard to smaller space at FMC Tower
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-to-small.html

They stay in Philly and it sounds like a broad corporate plan than something with the Philadelphia operation. But that's a big decrease in space and a big exit for the NY. The NY building is a nice but not one you can easily lease by floor. You need a company who wants that much space.

The GSK building is actually probably the perfect size for RiteAid when they initially move in here.

I agree that the article makes it out to be a corporate plan. It's also not like they don't like it here, the CEO had wonderful things to say about Philly at the end of that article.

It says that Brandywine is moving to Cira Centre, where Deschert was. Where is Deschert now? Are they still a prospect for potential space in 3001 JFK?

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Exclusive: GSK moving out of Philadelphia Navy Yard to smaller space at FMC Tower
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-to-small.html

They stay in Philly and it sounds like a broad corporate plan than something with the Philadelphia operation. But that's a big decrease in space and a big exit for the NY. The NY building is a nice but not one you can easily lease by floor. You need a company who wants that much space.

It wouldn't surprise me if they're moving in part because FMC is probably a lot closer to where most of their workers live (i.e., the Main Line). While it sounds like they won't be having as many people coming in (which is what it is, the world is changing right now), I bet they cut time off the commute for virtually all of them.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The GSK building is actually probably the perfect size for RiteAid when they initially move in here.

I agree that the article makes it out to be a corporate plan. It's also not like they don't like it here, the CEO had wonderful things to say about Philly at the end of that article.

It says that Brandywine is moving to Cira Centre, where Deschert was. Where is Deschert now? Are they still a prospect for potential space in 3001 JFK?

I forgot if its 3001 JFK but I think Dechert won that lawsuit which lets them "double dip" on KOZ tax credits, so I think they're set on moving.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

It wouldn't surprise me if they're moving in part because FMC is probably a lot closer to where most of their workers live (i.e., the Main Line). While it sounds like they won't be having as many people coming in (which is what it is, the world is changing right now), I bet they cut time off the commute for virtually all of them.



I forgot if its 3001 JFK but I think Dechert won that lawsuit which lets them "double dip" on KOZ tax credits, so I think they're set on moving.

Something something Broad Street Line extension.

I know it wouldn’t help those coming from the Main Line too much, it still needs to happen for the Navy Yard to truly succeed. Sorry if I sound like a broken record at this point.

[Nova08]

GSK employees come from all over. Especially after 1.5 years remote. I know people from Kennett Square, Princeton, the shore, south jersey, central jersey who are all "based" out of the NY

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The GSK building is actually probably the perfect size for RiteAid when they initially move in here.

That crossed my mind too, but then I remembered Rite Aid is already committed to space which is being fitted out now for them at 1200 Intrepid Ave, the Bjarke Ingels designed building.

https://www.pidcphila.com/images/upl...orApproval.pdf

[summersm343]

Perfectly fine to see GSK downsizing... at least they're staying in the city! The space in the Navy Yard will be backfilled quickly. It's a nice building and there's a lot of life science demand down there now too.

Get used to seeing more companies downsize office space in the age of COVID. This also isn't only happening in Philly by the way... it's happening everywhere. This is one time when we should be happy that Philly has such a mixed-use residential Downtown.

[summersm343]

Wrong thread

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

BNP Paribas opens 'destination' office in Chesterbrook, plans to hire 300 people over next 3 years



Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

What is a Chesterbrook?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

This is one time when we should be happy that Philly has such a mixed-use residential Downtown.

That's what saved us, as I see other downtowns who don't have this and they are still struggling to come back.