Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5 - Page 759

Rileybo · #**15161** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 4:15 AM**

Imagine the all the kinds of strip clubs millionaires and billionaires like Shaq have attended around the world. Of course they’d be bored in Salt Lake.

Atlas · #**15162** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 5:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by locolife

I'm from SLC and always cheer for it to do well, enjoy all the great progress downtown. But I have to throw some love out to Phoenix, as my new hometown for a long time now. The SLC CSA has about 3 million and Phoenix has about 5 million, so PHX is about 1.7x the size of SLC. It's bigger here but not that much bigger and it wasn't all that long ago that SLC was larger than Phoenix but it's grown fast in the valley of the sun.

At 1.7x the population size

This comes off as cherry picking to me. Phoenix CSA is 5 million while SLC CSA is 2.6 million, so it's more like 1.9x. Phoenix metro is 4.8 million while SLC metro is 1.2 million, 4x larger. Phoenix proper is 1.6 million while SLC proper is 200k, 8x larger. Phoenix proper represents 32% of its CSA population. SLC proper is only 7.7% of its CSA.

The last number is really noteworthy. The SLC government has barely more political influence than any other city on the Wasatch Front thanks to its limited geographical boundaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by locolife

SLC
- 4 additional buildings over 200' either proposed, under review or approved.

SLC has 6-7 publicly proposed buildings above 200 ft, not 4. So if Phoenix has 14, the two cities are building 200+ ft towers at about the same rate (normalized by CSA population).

Austin and Nashville are the real boomtowns in the US.

Always Sunny in SLC · #**15163** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob rulz

The reason for a 1am last call is simple - it's 1 less hour for the heathens to have fun.

While, in Utah, religion is always apart of policies decisions around “moral issues”, that variable tends to be seen as if without it there is no reason these laws would exist. Those that recommend policies for cities and states recommended .05 BAC (most of Western Europe has it) and per CDC website they recommend, “Policies that make alcohol less accessible, available, and affordable are effective for reducing drinking to impairment and can also help to prevent alcohol-impaired driving. Some examples include increasing taxes on alcohol and regulating alcohol outlet density to reduce the number of retailers that can sell alcohol in a particular location.

Now whether these statements are backed up by good research should always be evaluated, but religion isn’t necessary to justify them.

Juancrocco · #**15164** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstar

I was able to attend a few of the events during All Star weekend from the Crossover event to the Celebrity All Star Game. I didn't have tickets for the main event, unfortunately. I was downtown quite a bit Friday, Saturday and Sunday. My take was that this was very successful for Salt Lake. Everyone I interacted with was having a good time. People seemed to be impressed with Salt Lake (some even acted surprised at being impressed). The individuals I talked with seem to love Salt Lake. Despite Chuck and Shaq's comments, the overall TNT broadcasts were almost like a Salt Lake commercial, promoting the area pretty heavily. I think this was good.

This was my experience as well. It was honestly bizarre to hear them say that after their other events where they were just showering Salt Lake and Utah with praise. They just like to poke fun and I had to remind myself not to take it so seriously. The problem is more with all the news articles and headlines picking it up for the masses. But I was very busy all weekend and it was electric.

SLCHenry · #**15165** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:17 PM**

Driving Downtown and looking at all of our hotels made me realize something. Will our hotels like the Marriot(s), The Hilton, and the Sheraton ever get a facade lift? They don't look too great on the exterior and compared to other cities it feels like our hotels are stuck in the 70s (other than the Hyatt). I wish that we had one nice big Marriot tower instead of two different smaller locations. The Sheraton Denver is a great location and the Hilton Columbus is spectacular. I've never stayed at any of these hotels in SLC but I assume they are nice on the interior. At least we have another Kimpton going in. I hope it is a Hotel Indigo.

Atlas · #**15166** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:27 PM**

I found this little hint of something to come on LinkedIn:

Quote:

Pioneer Park:
This concept design for market-rate apartments to be located in a fast-growing area of Salt Lake City connects housing and retail to public transit.

Developer appears to be Sterling Bay, a large Chicago-based firm. Architect is Denver-based Oz Architecture which also designed SSL's South City project. The location is ambiguous but it must be near Pioneer Park and there is a TRAX train in the rendering. My best guess is somewhere along 400W or 400S, in proximity to Blue of anticipating those TRAX extensions. Maybe SW corner of 200S/400W?

Comrade · #**15167** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 11:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

While, in Utah, religion is always apart of policies decisions around “moral issues”, that variable tends to be seen as if without it there is no reason these laws would exist. Those that recommend policies for cities and states recommended .05 BAC (most of Western Europe has it) and per CDC website they recommend, “Policies that make alcohol less accessible, available, and affordable are effective for reducing drinking to impairment and can also help to prevent alcohol-impaired driving. Some examples include increasing taxes on alcohol and regulating alcohol outlet density to reduce the number of retailers that can sell alcohol in a particular location.

Now whether these statements are backed up by good research should always be evaluated, but religion isn’t necessary to justify them.

DUI fatalities have continued to decline in the US despite no discernible change to liquor laws over the course of the last 40 years - at least a change that makes it less accessible beyond the raising of the legal purchasing age to 21 in 1984.

DUI enforcement has probably been one of the single-largest deterrents to fatalities and the ever expanding nature of public transportation and ride-hailing apps like Lyft and Uber has also played a role.

Hard for me to image that expanding last call an hour would be the difference maker here.

The best way to continue to limit alcohol-related deaths is by offering driving alternatives - either through mass-transit or walkable communities.

SLCHenry · #**15168** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 11:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

I found this little hint of something to come on LinkedIn:

Developer appears to be Sterling Bay, a large Chicago-based firm. Architect is Denver-based Oz Architecture which also designed SSL's South City project. The location is ambiguous but it must be near Pioneer Park and there is a TRAX train in the rendering. My best guess is somewhere along 400W or 400S, in proximity to Blue of anticipating those TRAX extensions. Maybe SW corner of 200S/400W?

The architecture reminds me of the Le Meridian, which im quite fond of. But this is more basic and is smaller. But hey, I am always up for new housing projects if they aren't terribly ugly!

Atlas · #**15169** Posted **Feb 23, 2023, 4:06 PM**

Provo and Ogden have largely developed separately from SLC. People from these places don't typically tell outsiders that they're "from Salt Lake" in the same way that people from the Salt Lake Valley do. There is a real qualitative difference there and it's strongly correlated to geography. The fact that they're now, within the last decade or two, abutting each other with sprawl doesn't automatically make it all Salt Lake by default. In the same way, I don't think Boulder should be considered part of Denver or Baltimore to be part of DC. These are distinct places.

Further, SLC just does not pull the weight of a city of 2.6 million people on a national level. You can pretend it does and make value judgements about that ("isn't that good?"), but at the end of the day no one seriously thinks of SLC as a larger city than Kansas City or Las Vegas. That's why most people in this thread think SLC is not going to get an NFL or MLB team anytime soon. That's why SLC isn't considered an important-enough media market for the Big 10 to consider adding AAU-member University of Utah. That's why SLC has zero Fortune 500 company headquarters and zero 500 ft towers.

SLC is truly more like a Richmond or a Buffalo right now in both characteristics and behavior. The scenery is better and the culture is different, but it's got a lot more in common with those places than it does with the likes of St. Louis and Charlotte.

TheGeographer · #**15170** Posted **Feb 23, 2023, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

Provo and Ogden have largely developed separately from SLC. People from these places don't typically tell outsiders that they're "from Salt Lake" in the same way that people from the Salt Lake Valley do. There is a real qualitative difference there and it's strongly correlated to geography. The fact that they're now, within the last decade or two, abutting each other with sprawl doesn't automatically make it all Salt Lake by default. In the same way, I don't think Boulder should be considered part of Denver or Baltimore to be part of DC. These are distinct places.

Further, SLC just does not pull the weight of a city of 2.6 million people on a national level. You can pretend it does and make value judgements about that ("isn't that good?"), but at the end of the day no one seriously thinks of SLC as a larger city than Kansas City or Las Vegas. That's why most people in this thread think SLC is not going to get an NFL or MLB team anytime soon. That's why SLC isn't considered an important-enough media market for the Big 10 to consider adding AAU-member University of Utah. That's why SLC has zero Fortune 500 company headquarters and zero 500 ft towers.

SLC is truly more like a Richmond or a Buffalo right now in both characteristics and behavior. The scenery is better and the culture is different, but it's got a lot more in common with those places than it does with the likes of St. Louis and Charlotte.

I agree with your points on the national perception of Salt Lake and how that relates to our ability to attract companies, professional sports etc. I’m not arguing that Ogden is Sat Lake any more than Golden is Denver. What I would argue is that Provo to Ogden is more or less continuous developed land at this point in time, and that those populations interact with one another. People commute from Davis and Utah county into Salt Lake county for work and to recreate. Boulder is included in the population of metro Denver. Whether or not it should is up for debate (I say no). You called locolife out on using the CSA population in a comparison, then you used Salt Lake MSA and just SLC as a population metric. My argument is neither are a perfect representative of population and both could be considered cherry picking in different ways depending on how you spin things. If you compare MSA as you recommended over CSA between cities you’re including Tooele for SLC and Boulder for Denver and countless other bad aggregations of population. So there is no perfect aggregation of population.

Are we more like Buffalo or Richmond. Hell I don’t know. We’re SLC. We’re unique and in many ways incomparable to any other city.

Atlas · #**15171** Posted **Feb 23, 2023, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

I agree with your points on the national perception of Salt Lake and how that relates to our ability to attract companies, professional sports etc. I’m not arguing that Ogden is Sat Lake any more than Golden is Denver. What I would argue is that Provo to Ogden is more or less continuous developed land at this point in time, and that those populations interact with one another. People commute from Davis and Utah county into Salt Lake county for work and to recreate. Boulder is included in the population of metro Denver. Whether or not it should is up for debate (I say no). You called locolife out on using the CSA population in a comparison, then you used Salt Lake MSA and just SLC as a population metric. My argument is neither are a perfect representative of population and both could be considered cherry picking in different ways depending on how you spin things. If you compare MSA as you recommended over CSA between cities you’re including Toole for SLC and Boulder for Denver and countless other bad aggregations of population. So there is no perfect aggregation of population.

Are we more like Buffalo or Richmond. Hell I don’t know. We’re SLC. We’re unique and in many ways incomparable to any other city.

I did not recommend using MSA. I am arguing that in a hollistic view, one that does not myopically focus on CSA or whatever, SLC is not a peer with the likes of Charlotte and Pittsburgh. It's just not. And that's at least partially or mostly because Ogden and Provo are not SLC. This reality is typically reflected better in the urban area metric, but I'm not saying that's perfect either.

I grew up in Ogden. People literally say "let's go to SLC" whenever they mean anywhere in the SL Valley. The same is true in Provo, Park City, and Tooele. The same is not true in South Jordan or West Valley. In the same way, people in Boulder don't think of themselves as living in Denver or even metro Denver.

But I digress. This belabored discussion is better had elsewhere. I created a thread for it in the City Discussions subforum.

SLCHenry · #**15172** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 12:33 AM**

Also, I'm wondering if the Regent St Hotel will ever be built. Im not a huge fan of the newer renderings, and I really liked the original proposal. Still would love to see it rise, never opposed new towers. If it is still planned to be a hotel, I hope its a JW Marriot

Paniolo Man · #**15173** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 12:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLCHenry

Also, I'm wondering if the Regent St Hotel will ever be built. Im not a huge fan of the newer renderings, and I really liked the original proposal. Still would love to see it rise, never opposed new towers. If it is still planned to be a hotel, I hope its a JW Marriot

The lot is being used as work space for Astra. If anything is built it likely wouldn't start until Astra is complete.

Makid · #**15174** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 3:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLCHenry

Also, I'm wondering if the Regent St Hotel will ever be built. Im not a huge fan of the newer renderings, and I really liked the original proposal. Still would love to see it rise, never opposed new towers. If it is still planned to be a hotel, I hope its a JW Marriot

The last I heard, it is still planned but won't start until after Astra is complete. It is also slated to be a Hotel/Residential building. It would also be a boutique hotel brand.

As for a JW Marriott, if/when it happens, I would expect it to be closer to the convention center.

SLCHenry · #**15175** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 4:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makid

The last I heard, it is still planned but won't start until after Astra is complete. It is also slated to be a Hotel/Residential building. It would also be a boutique hotel brand.

As for a JW Marriott, if/when it happens, I would expect it to be closer to the convention center.

I remember someone saying back in the summer that APS Hotel would potentially be developed if the Hyatt was doing good in terms of OR this summer. That would be a really nice spot for a JW.

Side note, Does anyone know if the new Kimpton on 370 West Temple is still happening? I love Hotel Monaco but another Kimpton would be a great addition to the city.