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  #22301  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 8:46 PM
jaysb jaysb is offline
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Installing central air in City Hall would be pricey. Could it be justified?
Just put the units on the inside windows and use all those window box fans they tried to install in the schools to blow the cool across the way.
     
     
  #22302  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 12:38 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Installing central air in City Hall would be pricey. Could it be justified?
No. Not to mention it would be hugely disruptive to the office occupants. It is extremely costly to run ductwork in City Hall because of the # of rooms and firewalls inside. Every office suite is like a rowhouse with 3ft of brick between it and the adjoining suite to prevent spread of fire. In addition, chilled water supply and return piping must be extended throughout the parts of the building not currently served by this system which gets pricey.
     
     
  #22303  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 12:48 PM
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It should have an HVAC system installed. This bldg will stand and stay occupy as long as humanity exists. Look to the Eisenhower Executive Office Bldg as a model.
     
     
  #22304  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
It should have an HVAC system installed. This bldg will stand and stay occupy as long as humanity exists. Look to the Eisenhower Executive Office Bldg as a model.
No doubt it'll be pricey but weren't some of the pandemic funds earmarked to improve air handling and filtration?

It's one of the most beautiful buildings in the country and every year it comes down with seasonal leprosy in the form of window AC units. Surely there is a way.

edit: I know we are a poor city and half the schools don't yet have basic things like filtered water...so obs those needs should come first, just a small gripe of mine is these window units!
     
     
  #22305  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jaysb View Post
No doubt it'll be pricey but weren't some of the pandemic funds earmarked to improve air handling and filtration?

It's one of the most beautiful buildings in the country and every year it comes down with seasonal leprosy in the form of window AC units. Surely there is a way.

edit: I know we are a poor city and half the schools don't yet have basic things like filtered water...so obs those needs should come first, just a small gripe of mine is these window units!
Yep - the American Rescue Plan has earmarked funds for ventilation and filtration upgrades to improve indoor air quality. The City should look at it and apply.
     
     
  #22306  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 1:33 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Originally Posted by jaysb View Post
It's one of the most beautiful buildings in the country and every year it comes down with seasonal leprosy in the form of window AC units. Surely there is a way.
Bothers me as well. Perhaps some of the casino taxes could go toward this instead of subsidizing horse racing.
     
     
  #22307  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 2:14 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Those AC's have always bugged me, too. But then I do a little cost/benefit analysis in my head and I just forget about it because this city has much bigger fish to fry. Now, if there are funds available and you can show me that over the long run, a more efficient central HVAC system will save money and lower greenhouse emissions, then maybe it's worth it.
     
     
  #22308  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Those AC's have always bugged me, too. But then I do a little cost/benefit analysis in my head and I just forget about it because this city has much bigger fish to fry. Now, if there are funds available and you can show me that over the long run, a more efficient central HVAC system will save money and lower greenhouse emissions, then maybe it's worth it.
haha, if I've learned anything in my nearly 20 years in Corporate America, it's that there is almost always a way to get the numbers to work
     
     
  #22309  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 3:54 PM
TempleGuy1000 TempleGuy1000 is online now
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Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA View Post
https://www.budget.pa.gov/Programs/R...in%20Page.aspx

Not sure if anyone else saw this but the Redevelopment Assistance Capital Program (RACP) through the State announced their grant recipients today. At the link above, you can download an excel listing of all the projects throughout the state. You can scroll down to Philadelphia and not only see projects that were awarded money but also projects that applied and did not receive any grant funding. Might provide some info on projects that haven't been reported on much yet.
Great list of stuff in there. I am glad to see so many projects in North and SW Philly get funding. It is vital to the city to establish more economic activity in those areas of the city. Bellweather District is the big winner. I kind of question why so much money has been spent on the Louis Khan concert barge, but whatever, I really hope it becomes the attraction it can be for Penn Treaty park. It's probably been incredibly expensive to redo the power plant already.

I-95 cap got a million more dollars to move some of the statues and walkway. Time to get the show on the road with that one!
     
     
  #22310  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
Yep - the American Rescue Plan has earmarked funds for ventilation and filtration upgrades to improve indoor air quality. The City should look at it and apply.
I doubt the grants were intended to rip out AC that works to install new AC just because some people dont like the looks. City Hall is so massive that I honestly forget the window units are there. When there are so many capital needs its hard to justify spending 10s of millions on an AC upgrade to a building where no one is actually hot in the summertime. They often add spaces under renovation to the chilled water system so it happens gradually when a room needs to be gutted anyway. At least thats how they used to do it.
     
     
  #22311  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 6:46 PM
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New construction fencing has gone up around Midwood's Italian Market project at 9th and Washington. Good to see this project getting started.
     
     
  #22312  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
I doubt the grants were intended to rip out AC that works to install new AC just because some people dont like the looks. City Hall is so massive that I honestly forget the window units are there. When there are so many capital needs its hard to justify spending 10s of millions on an AC upgrade to a building where no one is actually hot in the summertime. They often add spaces under renovation to the chilled water system so it happens gradually when a room needs to be gutted anyway. At least thats how they used to do it.
I think they can make a case for the grant. Whether it is approve/deny is not for us to decide. And, I'm not bother by the look of window units but think modern HVAC isn't a luxury ask in this day/age. Up to folks in City gov't if that's a priority to them or not...probably not due to costs and all other higher priorities nowadays.
     
     
  #22313  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 7:26 PM
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Reading Terminal Market unveils $1.5M Filbert Street project

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=3#cxrecs_s

Reading Terminal Market unveiled its completed Filbert Street transformation project Tuesday as it continues fundraising for an estimated $15 million in capital projects ahead of its 100th anniversary celebration.
The $1.5 million project created 15,000 square feet of multipurpose space on the 1100 block of Filbert.
     
     
  #22314  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 7:39 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
I doubt the grants were intended to rip out AC that works to install new AC just because some people dont like the looks.
Right but if window ACs are inefficient and more polluting than a modern HVAC, that's a legitimate reason. But I agree that for cosmetic purposes alone (4-5 months out of the year), it's not a worthwhile expenditure.
     
     
  #22315  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Right but if window ACs are inefficient and more polluting than a modern HVAC, that's a legitimate reason. But I agree that for cosmetic purposes alone (4-5 months out of the year), it's not a worthwhile expenditure.
And I doubt those window AC units have HEPA filters and can turn over air x number of times or regulate outside air as a mixture of indoor/outdoor air to improve air quality.
     
     
  #22316  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 8:20 PM
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No Hvac system should be put into City hall until every school has AC units in classrooms.

Thats a big waste of money for a building that actually has AC units compared to the schools that dont.
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  #22317  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2022, 11:37 PM
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  #22318  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2022, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
No Hvac system should be put into City hall until every school has AC units in classrooms.

Thats a big waste of money for a building that actually has AC units compared to the schools that dont.
https://www.reclaimphiladelphia.org/...schools-funded

I know it is not the latest data but just as an example of where the money is going and what could be used to buy ductless HVAC units or window AC units.

In the other column, they can used some of that money and buy window AC units for the school. It's pathetic that this doesn't get addressed with the existing budget. You would think the administration and teacher/union would demand it after all these years and kids don't get early dismissal due to a heat wave or excessive heat and miss out being educated.
     
     
  #22319  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2022, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
https://www.reclaimphiladelphia.org/...schools-funded

I know it is not the latest data but just as an example of where the money is going and what could be used to buy ductless HVAC units or window AC units.

In the other column, they can used some of that money and buy window AC units for the school. It's pathetic that this doesn't get addressed with the existing budget. You would think the administration and teacher/union would demand it after all these years and kids don't get early dismissal due to a heat wave or excessive heat and miss out being educated.
Wow, now I never looked into the funding or spending of SDP however 3.2 Billion is a pretty fat budget? Lets see how that compares to a city of similar Size

Ie: the city of Phoenix, Arizona

https://www.pxu.org/cms/lib/AZ010018...inal%20Rev.pdf

Around 240 Million for the budget? am I missing something? how do we have such a big budget and are bleeding away like this, as well as not even being able to take a couple million from each expense to pay for improvements and Hvac for all schools?
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  #22320  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2022, 12:06 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Right but if window ACs are inefficient and more polluting than a modern HVAC, that's a legitimate reason. But I agree that for cosmetic purposes alone (4-5 months out of the year), it's not a worthwhile expenditure.
The ROI would not be favorable- thats the bottom line. AC units don't pollute, they use electricity so the only savings you would garner would be in the power bill for City Hall (which is probably lumped in with other City buildings anyway) and my guess is the payback period would be multiple decades. There may be some miniscule savings in emissions at PECO if CH uses less power for cooling but it wouldn't amount to a drop in a bucket. To put all of City Hall on a chilled water system would probably cost $20-$30m because of all the ancillary costs to install ducts, air handlers, controls, power, new ceilings, piping, etc. Again, the layout and age of the building make it a very inefficient place to install centralized AC vs a modern office building which has huge open floorplates and open plenum ceilings. City Hall doesn't even have room for a chiller plant which is why it gets its chilled water from the Criminal Justice Center. There are major compromises involved in operating a building that opened 121 years ago.
     
     
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