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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythe.... View Post
The Link is an $80M plan to cool urban streetscapes and heat up north downtown development

https://sanantonioreport.org/the-lin...n-development/

Calvert chose to support The Link over a proposed 7-mile linear park on the Southeast Side known as the Salado South Extension because it was the “most viable,” of the two options, he said.
Well, that's a sentence that's totally changed my opinion on this project. If we're defunding our fabulous Greenway network to support this pet project, count me out. This is exactly why we never should have removed the dedicated sales tax from the Greenways, it's too vulnerable to political whims.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 7:45 PM
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The St. Louis Cardinals are not a AA/AAA team. There's a big difference. If SA had a guaranteed major league team to put in the stadium, my opinion might change. But anything under major league is statistically insignificant in terms of ability to spur meaningful growth in the surrounding neighborhood.

What some call a "dirty little creek", others who use it call a refuge and a nice place to take a lunch break, walk, get outdoors, interact with other people, and the list of positive possibilities goes on and on.

On a related note, Charles Barkley absolutely was role model, even though he made a lot of money making a Nike commercial proclaiming he wasn't a role model. This was in reaction to the bad press he received after he accidentally spit on a little girl at a game. (He was trying to spit on a racist heckler, but had bad aim.) And specific to San Antonio... he's always hated San Antonio and consistently bad mouths the city. So just know these things about him when you're quoting him.

With all that said, we are all entitled to our opinions.
couldn't agree more. if SA goes with a minor league stadium downtown they shut off any dream for a major league team. who the hell wants minor league? with that kind of risk involved to boot.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2022, 6:04 AM
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couldn't agree more. if SA goes with a minor league stadium downtown they shut off any dream for a major league team. who the hell wants minor league? with that kind of risk involved to boot.
I agree. As much as I enjoy seeing the missions it's nothing compared to a major league game. I'd rather San Antonio wait and continue to develope the urban core and attract big business. With time and steady growth the MLB and NFL will come. And when that moment arrives the city needs to be ready with a plan for new amazing stadiums. Personally I'd put a MLB stadium where the ITC building is. Imagine having the Tower of the Americas in outfield towering over the field. I would add lots of mixed use commercial, residential and entertainment options as well. That entertainment district at globe life field in Arlington is a great model to follow.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2022, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Keegan-B-SATX View Post
I agree. As much as I enjoy seeing the missions it's nothing compared to a major league game. I'd rather San Antonio wait and continue to develope the urban core and attract big business. With time and steady growth the MLB and NFL will come. And when that moment arrives the city needs to be ready with a plan for new amazing stadiums. Personally I'd put a MLB stadium where the ITC building is. Imagine having the Tower of the Americas in outfield towering over the field. I would add lots of mixed use commercial, residential and entertainment options as well. That entertainment district at globe life field in Arlington is a great model to follow.
This will be a dreamy scenario, and I've done the aspects, a major league stadium could fit in there no problem. Especailly with Alamodome parking, it would be perfect. Plus, lets say NFL were to come, they wouldn't interfere with each other.

Only thing is that I wish the ATT Center (or soon to be Fred Fry's Arena) should have been downtown next to the convention center on Market st.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2022, 5:38 AM
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2022, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythe.... View Post
I'd much rather have this than a minor league stadium. People who work and/or live in dense urban areas need places of refuge to escape the honking, traffic, windows that don't open... a place to sit under a tree, see water and birds, read a book, and just plain unwind. I lived in NYC for 18 years... I know. More parks is never a bad thing.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2022, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
I'd much rather have this than a minor league stadium. People who work and/or live in dense urban areas need places of refuge to escape the honking, traffic, windows that don't open... a place to sit under a tree, see water and birds, read a book, and just plain unwind. I lived in NYC for 18 years... I know. More parks is never a bad thing.
I rather have both and it's possible.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2022, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
I'd much rather have this than a minor league stadium. People who work and/or live in dense urban areas need places of refuge to escape the honking, traffic, windows that don't open... a place to sit under a tree, see water and birds, read a book, and just plain unwind. I lived in NYC for 18 years... I know. More parks is never a bad thing.
As someone that lives in loop land (quarter acre inside 1604), I have all of that and it really is nice. Urban living is not the end all be all, but I see its positives.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2022, 5:48 PM
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CityScrapes: San Antonio's new minor league ballpark proposal is about land, not sports

According to recent news reports, Weston Urban is working to develop a new minor league ballpark downtown.

https://www.sacurrent.com/news/citys...ports-29680636

In San Antonio, it's always about land.

According to recent news reports, Weston Urban — the development entity of Rackspace co-founder Graham Weston — is working to develop a new minor league ballpark downtown. The location? Conveniently near Weston's other holdings and development projects, including the Weston Centre, the Milam Building, the Rand Building and the new Frost Tower on the west side of downtown, near San Pedro Creek.

The ballpark plan is reported to involve a site near San Pedro Creek, just north of Martin Street and west of Flores Street.

City and county leaders have long floated the idea of a downtown ballpark, presumably used by the San Antonio Missions or an upgraded minor league team. Any number of other cities have embraced similar ballpark-as-revitalization anchor strategies. And almost invariably, those involved significant public financing. In other words, the local government often picks up the full development cost.

The reports of Weston's efforts don't make clear how a new ballpark might be funded. But the logic for Weston and Weston Urban is crystal clear. Built near the existing Weston Centre tower, Frost Tower and the sites of Weston Urban's planned new downtown housing initiatives, the sports facility would boost economic activity and land values in a part of downtown substantially owned and controlled by Weston.

That phenomenon of looking to major public investment to boost private gain has a long and storied history in San Antonio and its fundamentally divided downtown core.

Almost 150 years ago, San Antonio's business leaders and major property owners faced a serious problem. The growing city, newly accessible via the railroad, was still a Wild West frontier town.

Its reputation wasn't helped by national newspaper headlines about the "Fatal Corner"— shootouts at the Vaudeville Theatre right on Main Plaza in 1882 and 1884 that left three dead and another mortally wounded.

Then there was the White Elephant Saloon down the block from the Vaudeville, the scene of a January 1885 "gambling quarrel" that left young Charles Brice shot in the head by Sam Parks, who initially fired shots at someone else altogether. Just a few months earlier, another disagreement between gamblers at the White Elephant led to drawn pistols but no fired shots.

The violence, gambling and prostitution in the heart of San Antonio posed a real problem for downtown business and property owners. So-called "adult amusements" brought ranchers, cowboys and soldiers to the center. But they also brought mayhem and bad publicity.

One response came in December 1889, with the passage of a city ordinance to "suppress and restrain bawdy houses" together with a companion ordinance restricting gaming establishments. While the 1889 ordinances didn't specify where the "restrained" houses might operate, the city licensing process effectively moved them all from Main Plaza and the city's heart to "west of the creek" — San Pedro Creek to be exact.

Two years prior, San Antonio voters approved a bond issue to construct a new city building to replace the "filthy" and "unhealthy" combined city hall-jail dubbed the "Bat Cave." But Mayor Bryan Callaghan Jr. and the council had been careful not to specify a site, for the obvious reason that the competing interests and "sides" of downtown were each seeking the benefit of a grand new civic building.

Merchants around Alamo Plaza saw the new city hall as their due and a potential boost to their bottom lines. As the San Antonio Light newspaper put it in June 1887, "The east and west side[s] of the river, both want it, and it remains to be seen which will give the larger bonus."

The bonus of course would be a private contribution toward the cost of the new building, an early form of "public-private partnership." Mrs. M. A. Maverick offered land adjacent to Travis Park with the promise of an additional $2,500 for the city. And on the west side of the river, Col. T. C. Frost and Thad. W. Smith promoted either Main Plaza or Military Plaza, for which the two businessmen would donate $6,000 in cash to the city.

Frost's interest in the Main or Military Plaza locations was clear. He had joined his brother in a business on Main Plaza just after the Civil War, and by the mid-1880s, he owned a thriving wool commission and banking business steps north of the cathedral on the plaza.

Keeping the city hall and city business west of the river would clearly support Frost's business and property interests.

Frost obviously won the fight. City Hall remains neatly placed in Military Plaza. That choice bolstered the area west of the river as the focus of the city's banking and financial firms, much as it remains today.

What's the lesson for us?

Graham Weston's interests may well not be the best interests of the city and its citizens, or even the best way to boost downtown.

If we are to have a downtown ballpark, what we need at least is a serious professional planning effort coupled with a broad community-wide discussion of whether a ballpark is truly a public priority and where it should go.

The days of narrow, effectively unilateral decision making, like the siting of the Alamodome and AT&T Center, should be well behind us. By now, it should be evident that those calls were not about the promise of sports, the enjoyment of the game or "development."

Here it's always about land — and someone's profit.

Heywood Sanders is a professor of public policy at the University of Texas at San Antonio.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2022, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythe.... View Post
CityScrapes: San Antonio's new minor league ballpark proposal is about land, not sports

According to recent news reports, Weston Urban is working to develop a new minor league ballpark downtown.

https://www.sacurrent.com/news/citys...ports-29680636

In San Antonio, it's always about land.

According to recent news reports, Weston Urban — the development entity of Rackspace co-founder Graham Weston — is working to develop a new minor league ballpark downtown. The location? Conveniently near Weston's other holdings and development projects, including the Weston Centre, the Milam Building, the Rand Building and the new Frost Tower on the west side of downtown, near San Pedro Creek.

The ballpark plan is reported to involve a site near San Pedro Creek, just north of Martin Street and west of Flores Street.

City and county leaders have long floated the idea of a downtown ballpark, presumably used by the San Antonio Missions or an upgraded minor league team. Any number of other cities have embraced similar ballpark-as-revitalization anchor strategies. And almost invariably, those involved significant public financing. In other words, the local government often picks up the full development cost.

The reports of Weston's efforts don't make clear how a new ballpark might be funded. But the logic for Weston and Weston Urban is crystal clear. Built near the existing Weston Centre tower, Frost Tower and the sites of Weston Urban's planned new downtown housing initiatives, the sports facility would boost economic activity and land values in a part of downtown substantially owned and controlled by Weston.

That phenomenon of looking to major public investment to boost private gain has a long and storied history in San Antonio and its fundamentally divided downtown core.

Almost 150 years ago, San Antonio's business leaders and major property owners faced a serious problem. The growing city, newly accessible via the railroad, was still a Wild West frontier town.

Its reputation wasn't helped by national newspaper headlines about the "Fatal Corner"— shootouts at the Vaudeville Theatre right on Main Plaza in 1882 and 1884 that left three dead and another mortally wounded.

Then there was the White Elephant Saloon down the block from the Vaudeville, the scene of a January 1885 "gambling quarrel" that left young Charles Brice shot in the head by Sam Parks, who initially fired shots at someone else altogether. Just a few months earlier, another disagreement between gamblers at the White Elephant led to drawn pistols but no fired shots.

The violence, gambling and prostitution in the heart of San Antonio posed a real problem for downtown business and property owners. So-called "adult amusements" brought ranchers, cowboys and soldiers to the center. But they also brought mayhem and bad publicity.

One response came in December 1889, with the passage of a city ordinance to "suppress and restrain bawdy houses" together with a companion ordinance restricting gaming establishments. While the 1889 ordinances didn't specify where the "restrained" houses might operate, the city licensing process effectively moved them all from Main Plaza and the city's heart to "west of the creek" — San Pedro Creek to be exact.

Two years prior, San Antonio voters approved a bond issue to construct a new city building to replace the "filthy" and "unhealthy" combined city hall-jail dubbed the "Bat Cave." But Mayor Bryan Callaghan Jr. and the council had been careful not to specify a site, for the obvious reason that the competing interests and "sides" of downtown were each seeking the benefit of a grand new civic building.

Merchants around Alamo Plaza saw the new city hall as their due and a potential boost to their bottom lines. As the San Antonio Light newspaper put it in June 1887, "The east and west side[s] of the river, both want it, and it remains to be seen which will give the larger bonus."

The bonus of course would be a private contribution toward the cost of the new building, an early form of "public-private partnership." Mrs. M. A. Maverick offered land adjacent to Travis Park with the promise of an additional $2,500 for the city. And on the west side of the river, Col. T. C. Frost and Thad. W. Smith promoted either Main Plaza or Military Plaza, for which the two businessmen would donate $6,000 in cash to the city.

Frost's interest in the Main or Military Plaza locations was clear. He had joined his brother in a business on Main Plaza just after the Civil War, and by the mid-1880s, he owned a thriving wool commission and banking business steps north of the cathedral on the plaza.

Keeping the city hall and city business west of the river would clearly support Frost's business and property interests.

Frost obviously won the fight. City Hall remains neatly placed in Military Plaza. That choice bolstered the area west of the river as the focus of the city's banking and financial firms, much as it remains today.

What's the lesson for us?

Graham Weston's interests may well not be the best interests of the city and its citizens, or even the best way to boost downtown.

If we are to have a downtown ballpark, what we need at least is a serious professional planning effort coupled with a broad community-wide discussion of whether a ballpark is truly a public priority and where it should go.

The days of narrow, effectively unilateral decision making, like the siting of the Alamodome and AT&T Center, should be well behind us. By now, it should be evident that those calls were not about the promise of sports, the enjoyment of the game or "development."

Here it's always about land — and someone's profit.

Heywood Sanders is a professor of public policy at the University of Texas at San Antonio.
By all means San Antonio, create the Link (Ditch) with 100% public funds. The area they are proposing is a wasteland and eyesore for DT.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2023, 2:26 PM
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Saw this article from yesterday that showed some new renderings for this concept (three different designs here apparently). This also still mentions the $400m Riverplace development with the Dream Hotel but that does seem a ways out given this park portion is still in the public/City feedback stage

https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifesty...k-18489224.php

Here are those new renderings:










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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2023, 1:27 PM
Keegan-B-SATX Keegan-B-SATX is offline
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Originally Posted by CWalk99 View Post
Saw this article from yesterday that showed some new renderings for this concept (three different designs here apparently). This also still mentions the $400m Riverplace development with the Dream Hotel but that does seem a ways out given this park portion is still in the public/City feedback stage

https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifesty...k-18489224.php

Here are those new renderings:












These renderings are very good. Some are definitely a bold design for San Antonio standards. I do hope "The Link" gets built and downtown can become fully connected via our riverwalk, parks, and trails.
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2023, 5:35 PM
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It's a five minute walk down Martin Street to get to the near top of the Creek. San Antonio is designed to be a walking city, can people really not make the four block trip with the thirty second inconvenience of going up and down a flight of stairs? Is an artificial extension of the River (and if there should be a new extension it should be @ Hemisfair) filled with cheap random decorations that have no meaning really what this area needs? After seven o'clock when the Library closes and Fox Tech empties out this whole district is no man's land. This is so ridiculous of a proposal when Main and Soledad just recently got finished with construction, and now it will presumably be shut down again and be torn up again? And what about Flores? I really hope this proposal gets stopped, it's so unnecessary and offers a solution to a problem nobody is having.



Improve the street signage. Improve the lighting at night. Get bike cops out there. The San Pedro Creek and the Riverwalk do not need to be married like this especially if there won't be a sports district in that Alamo Dealership lot.
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2023, 10:12 PM
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San Antonio is designed to be a walking city.
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2023, 11:07 PM
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Rambling

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Originally Posted by Spoiler View Post
Our Downtown is perhaps one of the cleanest, most uniquely designed and in my personal opinion inherently greatest districts in the world. Unlike Houston or Austin with it's cookie cutter tic-tac-toe grids and looming towers, San Antonio's streets curve and dip and turn. Some blocks are very long (the Rivercenter Mall on Commerce or the Henry B. Gonzalez on Market) and others are very short (the Mexican Manhattan area on Soledad or the Market Square on San Saba). Then you have Navarro bringing in traffic from the south to the north and Saint Marys from the North to the south intersecting Commerce and Market in the very middle of the downtown. It's very easy to memorize, whereas I still get lost walking around in Houston or Austin. The several times I've been in Houston for leisure or work the blocks really do seem identical after a while, and they're less hospitable than San Antonio (no public bathrooms, almost no benches, lack of water fountains...and the tunnels close around 5 o'clock so that's a no-go) Ours is an ingenious design thanks to the street grid being almost the same as it was in the time of Alamo that allows the four main neighborhoods of the city to travel to the Centro.

And it's a unique design that after Julian Castro's Decade of Downtown policies is finally getting recognized. In December there will be "Holidays on Houston" events which are completely turning around the strip with Christmas wreaths, lights, the new Spurs mural...plus the Travis Park skating rink. All of these events are focused on walking and appreciating the length of Houston (the new wreaths start by Alamo and go all the way to I think Flores). In San Antonio you can rent a scooter using a phone app, but in Houston for example they don't have those kinds, you have to rent them from a business office directly and return them to the office you picked it up at. And they're way more expensive.

The trolleys we know aren't coming back. Once the 300 Main tower opens up, that's what the new tenants will be doing anyway, is walking? The next block east on Travis is the River, two blocks west is San Pedro Creek. Considering at one time there were seven or eight different scooter companies operating (now just Bird and Veo) and the horse carriages are approaching their last tour...considering the movements to make walking around safer, I think there will be a greater emphasis on it. Commerce Street has already been shrunk down, no bus lanes and now dedicated I parking spots along the curb. The sidewalks are much wider now around the Aztec as a result. I'll be curious what the next Mayoral administration/City Manager has in store for the downtown.

Last edited by SpiritofSeguin; Nov 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM.
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2023, 2:14 AM
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Relatively speaking, downtown San Antonio is a desolate wasteland, but it does have one really good gimmick, which is that there are a number of below street level passageways. Mostly they are along the river, and the two river extensions, and the bypass channel, but now also along the creek, and don't forget the paseo that goes through the Hyatt Regency to the Alamo. These passageways are attractive and functional and you can walk to many destinations using them. Some newer construction has created river level courtyards as well, which there should be more of. There should be more River Level in general downtown, and that's why the Link is being proposed, not because it's difficult to use street level, but because River Level is a massively successful gimmick which city and county leaders are correct in believing should be leveraged to the hilt.
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2023, 3:06 AM
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Downtown San Antonio is a desolate wasteland
I wholeheartedly but respectfully disagree.

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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2023, 3:37 PM
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CWalk99 View Post
Saw this article from yesterday that showed some new renderings for this concept (three different designs here apparently). This also still mentions the $400m Riverplace development with the Dream Hotel but that does seem a ways out given this park portion is still in the public/City feedback stage

https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifesty...k-18489224.php

Here are those new renderings:










Personally, I absolutely love this and I hope it gets built.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 10:55 PM
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The only thing I dislike about this is the commissioners court is diverting funds from the regular Greenway network to build it. Removing the Greenways from the dedicated voter approved sales tax funding it used to have was a huge mistake imo, relying on regular County funding appropriations is at the mercy of the whims of the court and is easily hijacked for passion projects like this (looking at you commissioner calvert). I'm guessing once the current round of planned Greenway construction wraps up we won't see any new ones built, I foresee "other priorities". But I digress, on its own merits this is certainly a worthy project and probably should have been included in the initial plan for SCCP in retrospect.
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