PHILADELPHIA | THE LAUREL @ 1911 Walnut | 604 FT | 48 FLOORS

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Just more confirmation that this is a go.



https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel..._news_headline

Interesting bit about the retail, I believe that's new info. Wonder who could take 24k sqft in Rittenhouse.

Wawa.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Wawa.

Boutique Wendy's.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Boku

Boutique Wendy's.

Touche

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Just more confirmation that this is a go.



https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel..._news_headline

Interesting bit about the retail, I believe that's new info. Wonder who could take 24k sqft in Rittenhouse.

Interesting. This is a departure from earlier plans, which were looking at a restaurant. At least based on what Eva Walker told me. I'm not seeing a 24,000 sq ft restaurant here. Maybe a high end store. Not Bloomies, which needs at least 100,000 square feet.

[iheartphilly]

I thought it was previously reported that the 24k space was gonna be high-end retail. I don't think that changed. Just said one tenant will take up all the space now. Neiman Marcus boutique or a Saks boutique. Could be the first for us.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I thought it was previously reported that the 24k space was gonna be high-end retail. I don't think that changed. Just said one tenant will take up all the space now. Neiman Marcus boutique or a Saks boutique. Could be the first for us.

Maybe. Most of those are around 85,000 square feet, though there are a few that are closer to that size. But, yes, I would think some kind of high end retail (it was discussed as restaurants and as a high end gym (potentially an Equinox) before retail, though the gym idea was discarded early on).

[McBane]

I'm trying not to put too much stock in the hyperbole (that the tenant will be a "game changer" for Rittenhouse) but that's a big promise to fulfill. But 24k sf seems a bit small for a lux national retailer. A restaurant is certainly not a game changer; neither one run by a local chef or a celebrity out of town chef who pops in once a month. It has to be a true destination because good retail just stops rather abruptly at 19th Street. I really have no clue what it could be.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Maybe. Most of those are around 85,000 square feet, though there are a few that are closer to that size. But, yes, I would think some kind of high end retail (it was discussed as restaurants and as a high end gym (potentially an Equinox) before retail, though the gym idea was discarded early on).

Equinox would be a game changer for the square, I know they were going to come to philly a couple years ago but for whatever reason it didn't happen.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Equinox would be a game changer for the square, I know they were going to come to philly a couple years ago but for whatever reason it didn't happen.

When I was investigating purchasing at the Laurel, Eva Walker (one of Southern Land's leads in sales and marketing of the building) told me they decided against it because they were worried about what kind of foot traffic a gym would generate and that residents would not like it. I never really appreciated that rationale. I don't think Equinox or a similar high end gym would attract "rifraff" and there are other cities that include them in luxury condos without turning off buyers. At 35 Hudson Yards, they are making the Equinox a centerpiece of that residential condo tower and marketing it as a selling point.

I get that there is a certain class of buyers that doesn't want any retail, restaurants, or strangers in their tower, but this is not that kind of a building anyway. Those buyers will go with a Scannapieco project. I, personally, would love to see an Equinox SOMEWHERE in the City as well. Bellevue Sporting Club needs to step up its game. If Southern Land has reconsidered since we last spoke and they do go with an Equinox here, I'd be happy. I'm not sure 24,000 square feet is big enough, though, and I actually thought there was room for more retail in this tower than that. Maybe this number excludes the Sansom side.

EDIT: maybe it is big enough for an Equinox; looks like the High Line one is about 30,000 square feet: https://clodagh.com/projects/equinox/

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

When I was investigating purchasing at the Laurel, Eva Walker (one of Southern Land's leads in sales and marketing of the building) told me they decided against it because they were worried about what kind of foot traffic a gym would generate and that residents would not like it. I never really appreciated that rationale. I don't think Equinox or a similar high end gym would attract "rifraff" and there are other cities that include them in luxury condos without turning off buyers. At 35 Hudson Yards, they are making the Equinox a centerpiece of that residential condo tower and marketing it as a selling point.

I get that there is a certain class of buyers that doesn't want any retail, restaurants, or strangers in their tower, but this is not that kind of a building anyway. Those buyers will go with a Scannapieco project. I, personally, would love to see an Equinox SOMEWHERE in the City as well. Bellevue Sporting Club needs to step up its game. If Southern Land has reconsidered since we last spoke and they do go with an Equinox here, I'd be happy. I'm not sure 24,000 square feet is big enough, though, and I actually thought there was room for more retail in this tower than that. Maybe this number excludes the Sansom side.

EDIT: maybe it is big enough for an Equinox; looks like the High Line one is about 30,000 square feet: https://clodagh.com/projects/equinox/

I don't think you are going to see the kind of "rifraff" (as in unacceptable juvenile behavior) at a place like Equinox. It's high end. Plus there's an initiation fee of a few hundred dollars and monthly membership fees range from $150-250. So if money is a factor in weeding out the rifraff, this qualifies. But to be fair, theft, which is what is the most common crime in gyms on all price points, happens on the full spectrum of socio-economic scale, whether people think the Planet Fitness type is rifraff because it's $10 per month or a place like Lifetime Fitness which is a few hundred bucks a month like in Ardmore or KOP, sadly thieves has no income boundaries. It might be that those will bad intentions find it easier as a point of entry at the $10 range.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I get that there is a certain class of buyers that doesn't want any retail, restaurants, or strangers in their tower, but this is not that kind of a building anyway. Those buyers will go with a Scannapieco project.

100% right. Buyers who prefer a little more quiet and privacy are not looking to buy right on Rittenhouse Square. Like you said, they'd probably go for a Scannapico project or perhaps something in Society Hill.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by McBane

100% right. Buyers who prefer a little more quiet and privacy are not looking to buy right on Rittenhouse Square. Like you said, they'd probably go for a Scannapico project or perhaps something in Society Hill.

This is a BIG building with amenities and it is expected. That's a plus. If someone doesn't want it here, they better look to live in a smaller 10 stories or under building that might have a front desk to receive mail and packages. That's all some may look for and that's fine too.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

This is a BIG building with amenities and it is expected. That's a plus. If someone doesn't want it here, they better look to live in a smaller 10 stories or under building that might have a front desk to receive mail and packages. That's all some may look for and that's fine too.

Well, Scannapieco's buildings are close to 30 stories and have just as many amenities (and are arguably even more luxurious). It's just a different mindset and product those buyers are looking for, and that's OK. I guess my point was, along the lines of what McBane said, that I don't see people who are looking to buy in Rittenhouse Square in a building already earmarked for retail objecting to an Equinox. It never made sense to me when she told me that and still doesn't make sense. So, maybe they have come around to this view and that's what this "gamechanger" is. Still surely hyperbole, but I would hope it's more than a restaurant or luxury boutique store.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Well, Scannapieco's buildings are close to 30 stories and have just as many amenities (and are arguably even more luxurious). It's just a different mindset and product those buyers are looking for, and that's OK. I guess my point was, along the lines of what McBane said, that I don't see people who are looking to buy in Rittenhouse Square in a building already earmarked for retail objecting to an Equinox. It never made sense to me when she told me that and still doesn't make sense. So, maybe they have come around to this view and that's what this "gamechanger" is. Still surely hyperbole, but I would hope it's more than a restaurant or luxury boutique store.

Yep, ambiguous at best. It's their building and their vision, and they understand the people living there have deep pockets to begin with, so I assume they know what these folks living in these buildings want or like based on their income levels and lifestyle. That's their gamechanger...LOL.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

When I was investigating purchasing at the Laurel, Eva Walker (one of Southern Land's leads in sales and marketing of the building) told me they decided against it because they were worried about what kind of foot traffic a gym would generate and that residents would not like it. I never really appreciated that rationale. I don't think Equinox or a similar high end gym would attract "rifraff" and there are other cities that include them in luxury condos without turning off buyers. At 35 Hudson Yards, they are making the Equinox a centerpiece of that residential condo tower and marketing it as a selling point.

Won't most of the retail front Sansom? And the tenant entrance will be on Walnut?

[McBane]

Will the Laurel not have its own fitness center and pool?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by McBane

Will the Laurel not have its own fitness center and pool?

It will. And quite a nice one. For a condo. It still does not compare to the free weights, power racks, machines, and cardio equipment of a real gym like Equinox. Most luxury buildings WITH an Equinox still have a private resident-only fitness facility.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Yep, ambiguous at best. It's their building and their vision, and they understand the people living there have deep pockets to begin with, so I assume they know what these folks living in these buildings want or like based on their income levels and lifestyle. That's their gamechanger...LOL.

You shouldn't assume that. Or that developers always make optimal decisions. Either way, this building will do fine. But that doesn't mean an Equinox or its equivalent isn't an equally good choice for a tenant. Re Londonee's post, most retail will front Sansom, but I believe there is a retail space on Walnut (where the resident entrance is).

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

You shouldn't assume that. Or that developers always make optimal decisions. Either way, this building will do fine. But that doesn't mean an Equinox or its equivalent isn't an equally good choice for a tenant. Re Londonee's post, most retail will front Sansom, but I believe there is a retail space on Walnut (where the resident entrance is).

Why not? Their assumptions are based on studying trends, and data dealing with amenities in high rise living and the philly market of what it has and doesn't have to offer.That being said, I don't think they are looking to re-invent the wheel, but give people what they want. I'm confident they know what they are doing. Too much money at stake to fail. And, if you recall, this lot was plaque for so many years and so many failures and here they come in and know how to work with the right people to get the job done. Most thought it was impossible and here we are close to a foundation being poured.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Why not? Their assumptions are based on studying trends, and data dealing with amenities in high rise living and the philly market of what it has and doesn't have to offer.That being said, I don't think they are looking to re-invent the wheel, but give people what they want. I'm confident they know what they are doing. Too much money at stake to fail. And, if you recall, this lot was plaque for so many years and so many failures and here they come in and know how to work with the right people to get the job done. Most thought it was impossible and here we are close to a foundation being poured.

Projects -- including big, expensive projects -- have subpar yields all the time. We live in the real world...developers don't always look at the right data or comps and don't always make the right choices. I don't think the trends and data on amenities in high rise living support a conclusion that Equinox is undesirable in a building like this. And I speak based on plenty of real world data and analysis. But no point in arguing. It's all academic. Although it's early days yet, this building seems poised to be a success with or without an Equinox.