PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[philly_account12]

Originally Posted by badthingshappen

This project intrigues me because I used to live right at that corner but I can't quite figure out what is going on with it. It seems to be saying that the businesses next to Federal Donuts (went to that pizza place many times, pretty solid grilled chicken salad) are getting torn down but that render is showing the new apartments on the other side of Fairmount Ave, which as far as I know is still public housing.

I assume it's just a case of the rendering being done a little sloppy because everything else in the article is pointing towards the other lot being the one in question.

The new buildings this article was written about are replacing the buildings connected to/behind the Federal Donuts (the pizza place and daycare business and they're actually demoed already). I don't believe there have ever been renderings for that project (the permit paperwork only had elevation drawings).

The render is from this project that covers the block from 6th & Green to 7th & Fairmont (across the street from the Federal Donuts parking lot). That site is cleared with foundation work going on.

[TempleGuy1000]

Brand New Renderings for Spark Facility Next to 30th Street Station

[iheartphilly]

^
Very sleek looking.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Though I will say, I have no idea why McBane is lumping him in with a who's who of corrupt Philly politicians. There is no indication Krasner is corrupt and he's doing exactly the job he said he would do when he was elected in a landslide victory.

Never said he was corrupt. I lumped him together with other bad politicians who did not deserve to be re-elected. Some are corrupt and some are shitty at their job. Krasner is the latter.

Also think it's interesting that in SF, the voters were so motivated to dump their progressive DA that they launched a recall vote. That undertaking was done at the grassroots level in defiance of the SF democratic establishment, which opposed the recall. I imagine this took a ton of effort to do and then even more work to get the votes. Even more impressive was that nearly 50% of SF voters participated!

This would never, ever happen here (in a hypothetical situation if we had a recall process). Instead, people here give the 'ol Philly shrug as if we expect our leaders to be corrupt, ineffective, etc. If the voters don't care, why should those who are voted into office care?

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by McBane

Never said he was corrupt. I lumped him together with other bad politicians who did not deserve to be re-elected. Some are corrupt and some are shitty at their job. Krasner is the latter.

Also think it's interesting that in SF, the voters were so motivated to dump their progressive DA that they launched a recall vote. That undertaking was done at the grassroots level in defiance of the SF democratic establishment, which opposed the recall. I imagine this took a ton of effort to do and then even more work to get the votes. Even more impressive was that nearly 50% of SF voters participated!

This would never, ever happen here (in a hypothetical situation if we had a recall process). Instead, people here give the 'ol Philly shrug as if we expect our leaders to be corrupt, ineffective, etc. If the voters don't care, why should those who are voted into office care?

Not to drag on the convo, but the bold is definitely part of it.
But also (and not meant to be insulting), the demographics of San Francisco are much different than Philadelphia (including poverty and education).

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Not to drag on the convo, but the bold is definitely part of it.
But also (and not meant to be insulting), the demographics of San Francisco are much different than Philadelphia (including poverty and education).

Recalls also happen regularly in California and can be argued are a huge waste of taxpayers dollars and government effort. i.e. there's an infrastructure there for it and it is a regular part of their governance model.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Recalls also happen regularly in California and can be argued are a huge waste of taxpayers dollars and government effort. i.e. there's an infrastructure there for it and it is a regular part of their governance model.

Huh? I’m from CA. Recall elections are not that common at all and require an arduous process of procedures and collecting signatures.

“Since 1913, there have been 179 recall attempts of state elected officials in California. Eleven recall efforts collected enough signatures to qualify for the ballot and of those, the elected official was recalled in six instances.”

[TonyTone]

The days of doing this "experiment" Krasner is currently doing should have been done in the 90's when people's dads were home and taking care of children, and got hit with 25+ for some crack, and weed.

You can't do a revolutionary change 30 years later and think it's gonna work , all the damage was done to families and children.

That's why we are seeing the problems we are now, families were destroyed years ago with harsh sentencing so doing the right thing now won't fix that.

I'm not sure how anyone can't see that now but that's the case of what's happening, look at the neighborhoods that have the most issues, they have been neglected since minorities moved in when white flight occurred because it was a way of saying fuck you again to minorities.

All Neighborhood Funding was pulled back, everything was redlined, and people were jailed for years for 10 grams. destroying families, communities and people.

The only way to fix this issue now is to go the way of the current Blumberg/Sharswood development which invests in neighborhoods and people rather then kick out and fix up.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Huh? I’m from CA. Recall elections are not that common at all and require an arduous process of procedures and collecting signatures.

“Since 1913, there have been 179 recall attempts of state elected officials in California. Eleven recall efforts collected enough signatures to qualify for the ballot and of those, the elected official was recalled in six instances.”

That's 179 more recall attempts than we've had here.

Many of these have been very recent. And yes, I'd argue if you vote for someone or aren't paying attention and then you're not happy with them a year or two later, well then, next time vote or vote differently.

You should google the expense of the recall for Newsom. Was that money well spent?

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by McBane

Never said he was corrupt. I lumped him together with other bad politicians who did not deserve to be re-elected. Some are corrupt and some are shitty at their job. Krasner is the latter.

Also think it's interesting that in SF, the voters were so motivated to dump their progressive DA that they launched a recall vote. That undertaking was done at the grassroots level in defiance of the SF democratic establishment, which opposed the recall. I imagine this took a ton of effort to do and then even more work to get the votes. Even more impressive was that nearly 50% of SF voters participated!

This would never, ever happen here (in a hypothetical situation if we had a recall process). Instead, people here give the 'ol Philly shrug as if we expect our leaders to be corrupt, ineffective, etc. If the voters don't care, why should those who are voted into office care?

I think you and a lot of people here are simply failing to come to grips with the fact that the majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you.

Low turnout is low turnout and that can't be denied, but it's not as though the low turnout was unrepresentative of what citizens wanted. Krasner destroyed his primary and general election opponents by more than 2-1, and held wide margins throughout basically the entire city except for the Northeast. There is zero statistical evidence that Krasner wouldn't have similarly cruised to victory in a higher turnout election.

In neighborhoods most impacted by crime in this city, Krasner was elected overwhelmingly! (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/u...ladelphia.html) The common refrain I hear here and other places is that young white liberals in safe parts of the city elected this guy and they don't have to deal with the consequences and this is simply false. I mean sure, young white liberals in safe parts of the city voted overwhelming for Krasner, but do you really think that is a voting bloc that can control even a low turnout election? I mean come on, Krasner won because he overwhelming won the support of Philadelphia's black population, not because some crusty leftists supported him. (https://www.phillytrib.com/news/loca...e1ebbd1f9.html)

It's so funny that you tout SF DA recall race (which was in large part funded by wealthy donors, many of which don't even live in San Fran) as some brave fight won by the people because they opposed party leaders. Guess what? Democratic leaders in Philadelphia didn't support Krasner! They supported his opponent, the one that Krasner obliterated. The heartwarming story of the common citizen rising up and voting for their own interests and against the will of the powerful political machine already happened in Philadelphia, that's how Krasner won in the first place.

BTW speaking of San Fran? How's crime doing over there? I'm sure it's plummeted since they got rid of their progressive DA. It's almost like there has been a country wide crime surge that directly coincides with a global pandemic and increased economic anxiety. It's almost like crime isn't tied to whether or not your DA is progressive and has more to do with other factors like the economic well being of society's poorest.

Anyway, the last thing I wanted to say is that the idea posited by you and others here that the reason Krasner was elected is because Philadelphia's citizenry is too lazy to give a shit, or too stupid or too poor, is of course disgusting. And frankly, considering who actually voted Krasner into office, kind of racist.

Perhaps take a step back and think, if the people most affected by violent crime voted for Krasner overwhelmingly what does that tell you?

And TonyTone, I don't think the thinking is that making the changes he's making is going to fix things overnight. But you acknowledge how damaging the carceral state is, how it's destroyed families. How can you possibly advocate for this to continue? Even if it's not going to fix things overnight, why should we continue to needlessly cage people when we know that it doesn't work and doesn't make people safer and how destructive it is? No matter how long you've been doing something wrong, it's always a good idea to start getting it right.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

That's 179 more recall attempts than we've had here.

Many of these have been very recent. And yes, I'd argue if you vote for someone or aren't paying attention and then you're not happy with them a year or two later, well then, next time vote or vote differently.

You should google the expense of the recall for Newsom. Was that money well spent?

The 179 are petitions usually organized by small groups and volunteers. They typically don’t get very far at all and aren’t associated with any governmental bodies involving tax dollars. I would just argue it’s not necessarily a significant part of the system. It’s not like politicians in CA face recall elections right and left - on average maybe one per decade.

[Groundhog]

Case in point about not voting people out when they're terrible and corrupt:

https://billypenn.com/2022/10/26/phi...on-reelection/

This logic is what is destroying the country. You see it a lot with the GOP on the national level, but it's the exact same indifference to corruption and tribalism here on a local level as well.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by allovertown

And TonyTone, I don't think the thinking is that making the changes he's making is going to fix things overnight. But you acknowledge how damaging the carceral state is, how it's destroyed families. How can you possibly advocate for this to continue? Even if it's not going to fix things overnight, why should we continue to needlessly cage people when we know that it doesn't work and doesn't make people safer and how destructive it is? No matter how long you've been doing something wrong, it's always a good idea to start getting it right.

That's the difference, locking people up because your racists and don't like them is wrong... I think thats a no brainer that doesn't need to be discussed.

Allowing someone who clearly has an issue with guns and responsibly handling them without hurting another human; out of jail multiple times to commit another crime of similar nature is nuts.

Arresting someone for having a gram of weed on them and locking them up for 10 years because of their skin color is clearly wrong.

Punishing an adult for doing extremely vile things is correct.

Punishing someone for your own convoluted reasons is extremely wrong.

It's almost like people can't see the difference between right and wrong. up and down.

Also don't mix up people wanting justice and liberty with people overwhelming electing Krasner. They elected Krasner for people who were wronged to get justice, and be treated correctly in the legal system, not to let killers loose to do more killing.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Also don't mix up people wanting justice and liberty with people overwhelming electing Krasner. They elected Krasner for people who were wronged to get justice, and be treated correctly in the legal system, not to let killers loose to do more killing.

Who exactly are the killers he's let loose to do more killing?

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Can we move back to development or no

[TonyTone]

https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/c...-shooting/amp/

Originally Posted by allovertown

Who exactly are the killers he's let loose to do more killing?

https://broadandliberty.com/2022/08/...-offend-again/

https://www.inquirer.com/news/ivan-r...outputType=amp

All different types of cases. And ill reel the word back of “killers” and instead replace it with “criminals” since thats harsh to people who did not kill anyone and instead committed heinous crimes.

The point still stands, punishment for crime is not the same thing as punishing someone unjustly.

Also this https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20221019.html

Bivins, 21, was found guilty in August of aggravated assault by vehicle, illegal racing, and causing an accident involving death while unlicensed, but he walked out of the courtroom because prosecutors didn’t ask the judge to revoke his bail and jail him while he awaited sentencing.

That he was allowed to walk free — and went on to allegedly commit another crime — has heightened criticism of District Attorney Larry Krasner, who has come under scrutiny for policies that detractors say have failed to appropriately punish people who commit crimes.

Police Commissioner Danielle Outlaw, for one, has complained in recent weeks that her officers make arrests, only to see those charged set free.

You need more proof?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Can we move back to development or no

Actually yes, Anyone know whats being built across from the MET? Where that gas station that was recently demolished was?

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Actually yes, Anyone know whats being built across from the MET? Where that gas station that was recently demolished was?

I think the block's addresses have been combined into one now, 813-823

PERMIT FOR THE COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF EXISTING BUILDING AND FOR THE ERECTION OF AN ATTACHED BUILDING WITH A ROOF DECK AND TWO (2) ROOF DECK ACCESS STRUCTURES WITH AN ELEVATOR FOR THE USE AS MULTI-FAMILY (63 UNITS) AND TO INCLUDE THIRTEEN (13) ACCESSORY PARKING SPACES (INCLUDING 2 ADA ACCESSIBLE PARKING SPACES (INCLUDES 1 ADA VAN SPACE), TWO (2) AUTOSHARE PARKING SPACES) AND THIRTY (30) ACCESSORY CLASS 1A BICYCLE PARKING SPACES (SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN ON PLANS).

https://atlas.phila.gov/813-23%20N%2...%20ST/property

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Have we seen a render for that? It doesn't sound familiar but >50 units triggers a trip to CDR, right? Can they just pull permits for tax abatement reasons prior to CDR?

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by allovertown

I think you and a lot of people here are simply failing to come to grips with the fact that the majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you.

Low turnout is low turnout and that can't be denied, but it's not as though the low turnout was unrepresentative of what citizens wanted. Krasner destroyed his primary and general election opponents by more than 2-1, and held wide margins throughout basically the entire city except for the Northeast. There is zero statistical evidence that Krasner wouldn't have similarly cruised to victory in a higher turnout election.

In neighborhoods most impacted by crime in this city, Krasner was elected overwhelmingly! (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/u...ladelphia.html) The common refrain I hear here and other places is that young white liberals in safe parts of the city elected this guy and they don't have to deal with the consequences and this is simply false. I mean sure, young white liberals in safe parts of the city voted overwhelming for Krasner, but do you really think that is a voting bloc that can control even a low turnout election? I mean come on, Krasner won because he overwhelming won the support of Philadelphia's black population, not because some crusty leftists supported him. (https://www.phillytrib.com/news/loca...e1ebbd1f9.html)

It's so funny that you tout SF DA recall race (which was in large part funded by wealthy donors, many of which don't even live in San Fran) as some brave fight won by the people because they opposed party leaders. Guess what? Democratic leaders in Philadelphia didn't support Krasner! They supported his opponent, the one that Krasner obliterated. The heartwarming story of the common citizen rising up and voting for their own interests and against the will of the powerful political machine already happened in Philadelphia, that's how Krasner won in the first place.

BTW speaking of San Fran? How's crime doing over there? I'm sure it's plummeted since they got rid of their progressive DA. It's almost like there has been a country wide crime surge that directly coincides with a global pandemic and increased economic anxiety. It's almost like crime isn't tied to whether or not your DA is progressive and has more to do with other factors like the economic well being of society's poorest.

Anyway, the last thing I wanted to say is that the idea posited by you and others here that the reason Krasner was elected is because Philadelphia's citizenry is too lazy to give a shit, or too stupid or too poor, is of course disgusting. And frankly, considering who actually voted Krasner into office, kind of racist.

Perhaps take a step back and think, if the people most affected by violent crime voted for Krasner overwhelmingly what does that tell you?

And TonyTone, I don't think the thinking is that making the changes he's making is going to fix things overnight. But you acknowledge how damaging the carceral state is, how it's destroyed families. How can you possibly advocate for this to continue? Even if it's not going to fix things overnight, why should we continue to needlessly cage people when we know that it doesn't work and doesn't make people safer and how destructive it is? No matter how long you've been doing something wrong, it's always a good idea to start getting it right.

You cannot ignore turnout. A majority of votes in a pathetic, low turnout election means what exactly? I think it's funny that other people are going around telling folks that there is high support for Krasner in violent neighborhoods. Are we actually hearing that from the residents? Do you see any notable, vocal support for him in those areas? The fact that elected officials are becoming more critical of his office is a sign that their constituents are NOT happy. There is a disconnect between the national dem party and whats going on at the ground level in these cities and it will cost them Nov 8th. People who are blindly loyal to the ideology of folks like Krasner will get a wakeup call soon enough. Everyone has to decide are they more committed to a person or to results. What I'm seeing here (and elsewhere) is a cultlike obsession with defending Krasner with NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the actual results. I will say this- Krasner was transparent- he has never said his goal was to make Philadelphia safer or a better place to live nor has he ever indicated he has much concern for the victims of crime. He is here to single handedly undo and reverse decades of poor policy at any cost and that is what he is attempting to do.....

Oh and some people need to be in jail- this is something that is known and increasingly being said in the crime ridden communities. It's funny, so many claim to be speaking for these communities and aligned with them- as long as they are saying whatever aligns with what that person already believes. If they are saying the DA is being soft on crime suddenly there is little interest in the voices from those communities.