Combined, Washington-Baltimore now outsizes Chicago as America’s 3rd largest CSA

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Staten Island is disconnected from the rest of NYC (physically and culturally).

LOL, SI is NOT culturally disconnected from the rest of NYC. It's almost certainly the most stereotypically New Yawk borough.

Yes, it's physically disconnected, but all of NYC is physically disconnected in the same respect. The entire city is islands and a peninsula.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Okay, so about the same size as Stamford, CT. There are probably +80 trains per day between Manhattan and Stamford.

LOL

1) There's more demand for such service because it's, you know, Manhattan

2) The line serves not just Stamford, but also Greenwich and communities farther east of Stamford... Darien, Norwalk, Weston, Fairfield, Bridgeport, before terminating in New Haven. The line also serves parts of The Bronx and Westchester County.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^^ my point was that if the Washington/Baltimore region is ever gonna come to be seen as more of a singular entity, it will need a singular name like "Metroplex" or "Bay Area".

If its name remains hyphenated, then that will always keep the separateness of its two main nodes front and center.

When I hear "Dallas," I also think of Fort Worth. It's sort of like Minneapolis and St. Paul; the pairing of the two goes without saying. I guess this is helped by the "Twin Cities" moniker and the much closer physical proximity between the two.

It's interesting though that "Boston" suffices in the CSA context, even though Providence is clearly its own thing and the entire state of Rhode Island is included within the scope of the CSA.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL, SI is NOT culturally disconnected from the rest of NYC. It's almost certainly the most stereotypically New Yawk borough.

Yes, it's physically disconnected, but all of NYC is physically disconnected in the same respect. The entire city is islands and a peninsula.

It's mostly suburban, auto-centric, and Republican-leaning. It's also the only borough with a white majority in which one ancestry (Italian) counts for well over half of that racial group (Jews being underrepresented).

How do those factors make it the "most stereotypically New Yawk" of all the boroughs? How are you not horrified by that thought?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by DCReid

DMV remains the best term. Other cities and counties, like Arlington and Bethesda, are just as influential, if not more so than Baltimore, even if they are smaller. Baltimore is not even in the biggest county of MD, and some of the counties of Baltimore have an influx of DC workers looking for exurb bargains (big houses on lots of land with excellent schools but cheaper than Montgomery County).

I agree, although as already mentioned, the 'M' colloquially doesn't really encompass any of the Baltimore area. The "DMV Region" also sounds kind of stupid if it's going to enter everyday parlance like "Delaware Valley" or "Bay Area," but then again so is "The Metroplex" (which doesn't speak to anything specific to DFW). I rarely hear or refer to the DFW area as such. Even without the hyphen, you can use "DFW" to refer to Dallas-Forth Worth and people will know what you're talking about (helps that that's also the IATA code).

The other decent options that I can think of are too Washington-specific (and therefore do a disservice to Baltimore):

Greater Washington
Capital Region
Beltway Region (but "DMV" is already a more expansive version of this)

I like something that incorporates "Chesapeake" because it has a very Mid-Atlantic connotation exclusive to MD and VA, with the Bay itself extending farther north than Baltimore and relatively close to the PA/DE borders. The problem with that name however is that it also suits the Virginia Beach metro area, if not more so than Washington (and certainly Baltimore). DC is also not situated along the Chesapeake.

In my years living there I never met someone living in Baltimore and working in DC.

And therein lies why it's difficult to think of the two as constituting a singular and unified entity.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I agree, although as already mentioned, the 'M' colloquially doesn't really encompass any of the Baltimore area. The "DMV Region" also sounds kind of stupid if it's going to enter everyday parlance like "Delaware Valley" or "Bay Area," but then again so is "The Metroplex" (which doesn't speak to anything specific to DFW). I rarely hear or refer to the DFW area as such. Even without the hyphen, you can use "DFW" to refer to Dallas-Forth Worth and people will know what you're talking about (helps that that's also the IATA code).

The other decent options that I can think of are too Washington-specific (and therefore do a disservice to Baltimore):

Greater Washington
Capital Region
Beltway Region (but "DMV" is already a more expansive version of this)

I like something that incorporates "Chesapeake" because it has a very Mid-Atlantic connotation exclusive to MD and VA, with the Bay itself extending farther north than Baltimore and relatively close to the PA/DE borders. The problem with that name however is that it also suits the Virginia Beach metro area, if not more so than Washington (and certainly Baltimore). DC is also not situated along the Chesapeake.



And therein lies why it's difficult to think of the two as constituting a singular and unified entity.

Even if Baltimore started booming, I doubt there would be an inclination to change the name of DMV (District Maryland Virginia) that most people refer to the DC metro. As I said places like Bethesda are important (NIH is there, schools are excellent, and there is a big and growing biotech corridor that they are promoting) and Northern VA suburbs are of course, very important. Baltimore may need to link itself to DC more than DC needs to link to Baltimore. In VA, development is proceeding further south that one day even the Richmond northern suburbs may meet up with the DC's sorthern VA suburbs. I knew co-workers who lived in Federicksburg, VA, which is 50 miles from DC and also 50 miles from Richmond. There is a lot of exurban growth in that area as Loundon County has its own employment base (huge data centers), and of course lots of land for big inexpensive houses.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Quixote

It's mostly suburban, auto-centric, and Republican-leaning. It's also the only borough with a white majority in which one ancestry (Italian) counts for well over half of that racial group (Jews being underrepresented).

How do those factors make it the "most stereotypically New Yawk" of all the boroughs? How are you not horrified by that thought?

Huh? SI is, by far, the most local borough, the one with the fewest non-native born New Yorkers. It's obviously the most New Yorky borough. It's the only borough where the NY accent still reigns supreme.

How is Tottenville less New Yorky than Williamsburg or Tribeca or Tremont?

And SI is extremely urban and transit-oriented for U.S. standards. It's only suburban and auto-oriented for NYC standards.

And what is "horrifying" about this?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Yes, as long as they don’t call it "Balwash".

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Quixote

It's mostly suburban, auto-centric, and Republican-leaning. It's also the only borough with a white majority in which one ancestry (Italian) counts for well over half of that racial group (Jews being underrepresented).

How do those factors make it the "most stereotypically New Yawk" of all the boroughs? How are you not horrified by that thought?

Originally Posted by Crawford

Huh? SI is, by far, the most local borough, the one with the fewest non-native born New Yorkers. It's obviously the most New Yorky borough. It's the only borough where the NY accent still reigns supreme.

How is Tottenville less New Yorky than Williamsburg or Tribeca or Tremont?

And SI is extremely urban and transit-oriented for U.S. standards. It's only suburban and auto-oriented for NYC standards.

And what is "horrifying" about this?

lol yeah -- plus its most definitely not republican in the top third of the island where we live, which is the urban area of it -- aka the northshore. there is literally every stripe of people up here.

also, its pretty funny to hear about autocentric with the subway station literally right next to our building and with the s.i. ferry and a fleet of busses to everywhere a stone's throw away at the ferry station. i mean sure they love cars, especially down the island where the single family homes reign, but staten has plenty of new and old typical urban-ness too. i'm in no rush to get a car again that is for sure.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Huh? SI is, by far, the most local borough, the one with the fewest non-native born New Yorkers. It's obviously the most New Yorky borough. It's the only borough where the NY accent still reigns supreme.

Right. And NYC is a diverse international city with a huge foreign-born population — something clearly not reflected in SI’s demographics. Plenty of native New Yorkers have milder accents; that doesn’t make them any less “New York.”

And SI is extremely urban and transit-oriented for U.S. standards. It's only suburban and auto-oriented for NYC standards.

Yes, which makes it a cultural outlier in that regard. There’s a reason why SI is the butt of jokes.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Even if Baltimore started booming, I doubt there would be an inclination to change the name of DMV (District Maryland Virginia) that most people refer to the DC metro. As I said places like Bethesda are important (NIH is there, schools are excellent, and there is a big and growing biotech corridor that they are promoting) and Northern VA suburbs are of course, very important. Baltimore may need to link itself to DC more than DC needs to link to Baltimore. In VA, development is proceeding further south that one day even the Richmond northern suburbs may meet up with the DC's sorthern VA suburbs. I knew co-workers who lived in Federicksburg, VA, which is 50 miles from DC and also 50 miles from Richmond. There is a lot of exurban growth in that area as Loundon County has its own employment base (huge data centers), and of course lots of land for big inexpensive houses.

DMV sounds too much like DelMarVa imo.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Right. And NYC is a diverse international city with a huge foreign-born population — something clearly not reflected in SI’s demographics. Plenty of native New Yorkers have milder accents; that doesn’t make them any less “New York.”



Yes, which makes it a cultural outlier in that regard. There’s a reason why SI is the butt of jokes.

nonsense. there are only 500k on the island and more than one in five staten islanders are foreign born. that is well above the usa average of 14%. and we have unique to nyc populations around here as well, like sri lankan.

and yeah, while staten make take some local ribbing, especially by staten islanders like pete davidson, it isn't because of transit.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Maybe the DMV can apply?

Originally Posted by DCReid

DMV remains the best term.

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

DMV sounds too much like DelMarVa imo.

?

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, when seeing "DMV," thinks of "Department of Motor Vehicles"?

Is the DMV not called the DMV outside of California?

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

?

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, when seeing "DMV," thinks of "Department of Motor Vehicles"?

Is the DMV not called the DMV outside of California?

In Massachusetts it's the RMV (Registry of Motor Vehicles). In Illinois it's the Secretary of State. But in Nevada, and I imagine in most places, it's also the DMV.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

In Massachusetts it's the RMV (Registry of Motor Vehicles). In Illinois it's the Secretary of State. But in Nevada, and I imagine in most places, it's also the DMV.

Aren’t there a few states where the DoT handles this?

[Shawn]

Rhode Island and New Hampshire have a DMVs - but it's the Division of Motor Vehicles, not Department, for both.

And sorry to get nit-picky, but Boston and Providence are actually only 29 miles apart, as the crow flies. They're closer than people who haven't lived in the area think, both physically and culturally. There's just no line you can really draw where the metros actually border. Certainly not the official MSA border between Norfolk and Bristol counties in Mass.

[Crawford]

DMV = Department of Motor Vehicles

Never heard of the concept of "DMV" as referenced here except at SSP.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Rhode Island and New Hampshire have a DMVs - but it's the Division of Motor Vehicles, not Department, for both.

And sorry to get nit-picky, but Boston and Providence are actually only 29 miles apart, as the crow flies. They're closer than people who haven't lived in the area think, both physically and culturally. There's just no line you can really draw where the metros actually border. Certainly not the official MSA border between Norfolk and Bristol counties in Mass.

Boston metro area posted the highest growth in the last decade (8.3%) since the 1960's (11.6%) and they are for first time growing faster than the US since the 19th century.

It's another case where the CSA seems to be a bit oversized, but more and more Boston pull will be felt further away.

About the true border between Boston and Providence, I guess we should look at the city level: the 5 cities (Taunton included) that form the northeast chunk of Bristol County would go with Boston.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by craigs

Second, your invocation of metropolitan New York City's public transit is a non-sequitur when discussing the nature of greater Los Angeles for multiple reasons, the most salient being that New York is an outlier within the United States in just about every way--including public transit service and ridership.

The point is that a train that averages 1 trip every 2 hours is not reliable for regular commuting.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^^ my point was that if the Washington/Baltimore region is ever gonna come to be seen as more of a singular entity, it will need a singular name like "Metroplex" or "Bay Area".

It's called the "DMV". That name has been around for decades.